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Is this the "French Connection" we were looking for?
Self | 30 October, 2005 | Paperjam

Posted on 10/30/2005 8:38:05 AM PST by paperjam

Okay, Freepers, I need your help here.

I think I may know what happened to get Wilson’s wife outed. For the most part I think I can prove it. I just need a little more information. The kind of stuff I can’t get to. But, I now know it all was a last ditch effort to stop the war before Saddam was captured in Iraq on 14 December, 2003

Please don’t go thinking I’m off my rocker, I don’t normally attempt investigative sourcing, but I do think there are legs under this story and they might begin here.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: cia; cialeak; d; espionage; josephwilson; niger; plame; plamegate
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There is still more to the story but here’s what I have so far;

We know now that the forged Niger documents came from France through Russo Martino. It seems that France wanted to plant false documents in the hands of the British and Americans to "set up" Britain and America in the hope that when the mistake was revealed it would undermine the case for war, which it wanted to prevent.

See: http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/19/wniger19.xml

Those documents were passed on to the US Embassy in Rome on 11 October, 2002 from an “Italian journalist.” They were then passed on to the CIA. The embassy faxed the documents to the State Department's Bureau of Nonproliferation (NP) on October 15, 2002, which passed a copy of the documents to INR.

On November 22, 2002, during a meeting with State Department officials, the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs Director for Nonproliferation said that France had information on an Iraqi attempt to buy uranium from Niger. He said that France had determined that no uranium had been shipped, but France believed the reporting was true that Iraq had made a procurement attempt for uranium from Niger.

See: http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/congress/2004_rpt/iraq-wmd-intell_chapter2-g.htm

The documents from the Italian journalist are those that were later passed to the IAEA and discovered to have been forged. In March 2003, the Vice Chairman of the Committee, Senator Rockefeller, requested that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) investigate the source of the documents, the motivation of those responsible for the forgeries, and the extent to which the forgeries were part of a disinformation campaign. Because of the FBI's investigation into this matter, the Committee did not examine these issues. It’s a damn good thing that the Italians were still on the hunt as they may have saved the day be blowing the whole incident open.

It turns out that Wilson’s second wife is named Jacqueline Wilson. She is also a former French Diplomat. Jacqueline Wilson, as the ex-spouse of a senior US diplomat received tens of thousands of dollars for special projects and reports to President Omar Bongo's daughter, Pascaline Mferri Bongo. In her latest filing, Wilson reported that she was paid 60,000 dollars between August and November 2000 to ''support action of president of Gabon to fight AIDS pandemic (and) develop a strategy.'' As to work performed, she reported sending ''letters to the office of National AIDS policy at the White House.''

She worked for them at least through November of 2000 and is whereabouts unknown at this time. However, it turns out that Gabon is also a pretty big oil producer in Africa. Now, this is a good place to remind everyone that Joseph Wilson was a US Ambassador to Gabon from 1992 to 1995.

See: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=98

One of the oil companies in Gabon is one called Elf. On Oct. 29, 1997 Elf Gabon reported a new onshore discovery and at the time they had a 60 % stake in the development, in association with the Gabonese government, which retains the remaining 40%.

See: http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/discover/dix75048.htm

However, as of 1996 the company was already hurting by reduced output in their other wells and the country was in trouble with imports becoming so cheap that in-country manufacturing fell to very low levels. Elf was rocked by allegations of slush funds and corruption and a trail of the executives of Elf, which concluded in Paris just last year told a story of slush funds and misappropriation going back for decades.

See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3733578.stm

In 1999, Total merged with Fina and Elf to form TotalFinaElf. More on this to follow!

See: http://www.total.com/en/press/press_releases/pr_1999/990723_board_elf_aquitaine_meets_1898.htm

This is where it gets interesting.

“One day after President Bush's demand that Iraq comply with United Nations arms control resolutions, three French parliamentary deputies flew to Iraq on what they described as a personal visit to urge Baghdad to comply with the demands.

The visit set off a political storm in France, where much is riding on the outcome of the diplomatic struggle over Iraq. While a humanitarian gesture, the trip also illustrated in part how countries are positioning themselves for an end of trade penalties. One of the three legislators, Thierry Mariani, 44, of President Jacques Chirac's Union for a Presidential Majority, told French television that the purpose of the trip was to urge Iraqi compliance with the United Nations' demands. But he was also quoted in Le Monde as justifying the trip with "the defense of French economic interests in Iraq."

Last year, France ranked No. 1 among European countries doing business with Iraq, with $1.5 billion in trade, followed by Italy, with $1 billion. Among the countries that trade with Iraq under the oil-for-food program, France ranked third, with $3.1 billion in trade since the program's start 1996. French trade under the program was surpassed only by Russia, with $4.3 billion, and Egypt, according to United Nations diplomats.

The French oil giant TotalFinaElf has the largest position in Iraq, with exclusive negotiating rights to develop Majnoon, a field on the Iranian border with estimated reserves of 10 billion barrels, and Bin Umar, with an estimated production potential of 440,000 barrels a day, according to oil industry executives.”

See: http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2002/0919threats.htm

“French oil giant TotalFinaElf has exclusive exploration contracts worth €60bn - €75bn to develop the massive Majnoon and Bin Umar oilfields in southern Iraq,” said David Perle former US Assistant Defense Secretary before Saddam was ousted. “What’s distinctive about the Total contract is that it’s not favourable to Iraq, it’s favourable to Total.” He said oil experts who had analyzed the deal described it as “extraordinarily lopsided” in favour of the French company with the well connected Canadian shareholders. The one thing Perle didn’t know was that this very lucrative deal was contingent on UN sanctions being lifted, a move that assured Saddam a lot of support at the UN, especially if he was entering contracts with big payofffs like this.

See: http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/2005032901363934

As of September 2003, TotalFinaElf officially became Total.

Now known as TOTAL, after a name change from TotalFinaElf, the company is the world's fifth largest integrated oil and gas company. It is based in Paris, operates in 120 countries with exploration and production activity in 44 countries and production in 27. The company has 2.4 million barrels per day of production, which compares with 4.2 million barrels daily for Exxon Mobil Corp. and 3.5 million barrels/day for BP plc. The company has 11.2 billion barrels of reserves and has been averaging a 2.5 percent annual growth in production but saw a 10 percent increase between 2001 and 2002.

The new TOTAL was created through two successive mergers, the first when the former Total joined with Belgian oil company Petrofina to form Totalfina, and the second when Totalfina combined with French oil company Elf Aquitaine to create TotalFinaElf. The new company reflects this prestigious Franco-Belgian oil and gas heritage, whose origins go back to the 1920s. The dynamic synthesis of the three companies’ corporate cultures and expertise represents a wealth of technological and human capabilities that favorably position Total to help invent the future of energy.

See: http://www.mbendi.co.za/coto.htm

I’m betting that France used Russo Martino to get the fake documents to the Italians. They in-turn were to get them to the British and the US as hot ticket items knowing that we were posturing for war. As a backup, I think they got to Wilson’s second wife Jacqueline to get Wilson on board to get to Niger. His third wife Valerie, working in the CIA, put forward his name to go most likely on her own as a concern over WMD’s and Uranium for Iraq. Wilson goes pro bono, with the exception of trip fees hence no security statements need be signed. True to form, Wilson comes back announced that the Niger documents were forgeries and that no sales of Yellow-Cake occurred. This should have put a stop to things but Bush went ahead with the British White Paper they put together citing other sources in his State of the Union Address. Wilson panics and puts together a paper for the NYT’s refuting Bush, the documents he used, and the reasons for going to war. This causes too much attention of Wilson and Novak interviews him for a story he’s going to run the NYT’s article and his trip to Niger as well as Valerie and her work at the CIA. Wilson has no choice but to scream an outing by White House officials who confirmed she works with the CIA and the CIA files paper with the Justice Department to investigate. The rest is history in the making.

The only thing I can’t prove yet is how Jacqueline got to Wilson and if she did it both before he went and after the State of the Union address. That would prove everything. I think we need his phone records.

It was all done in an effort to save France’s economy which was already stagnant and close to $100 billion dollars (70 billion Euros) in lucrative and lopsided oil contracts for developing the Majnoon and Bin Umar oilfields in southern Iraq. I won’t even go into all the money they were making in Oil for Food as well as everything else they were doing.

I think France used Wilson’s second wife either through TOTAL or through Gabon to get to Wilson and get him to deny the Niger documents as forgeries as their plan B. Either way, once they were found out to be fake, Frances plan would cement and the war would be averted either by the UN or the American public. Eventually, Iraq would be sanction free and France would reap the benefits.

1 posted on 10/30/2005 8:38:06 AM PST by paperjam
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To: paperjam

Bump for later reading.


2 posted on 10/30/2005 8:45:08 AM PST by PilloryHillary (Government is the only enterprise in the world which expands in size when its failures increase.)
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To: paperjam

"It was all done in an effort to save France’s economy which was already stagnant and close to $100 billion dollars (70 billion Euros) in lucrative and lopsided oil contracts for developing the Majnoon and Bin Umar oilfields in southern Iraq."

I'm unclear on how the fake documents would have helped the French economy.


3 posted on 10/30/2005 8:45:39 AM PST by gondramB
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To: paperjam

Makes plenty of sense to me...one thing for sure...we aren't hearing the whole story as presented by the MSM...Thanks for all the good work. Wouldn't it be great if a FREEPER were to blow this whole episode wide open like happened with the fake doc's on the Presidents Air Guard papers..


4 posted on 10/30/2005 8:46:35 AM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Thanks America for not slapping us in the face again.)
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To: gondramB

bumpity bump


5 posted on 10/30/2005 8:46:45 AM PST by stickandpucknut
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To: paperjam
..sound somewhat reasonable, so many "switchbacks"...you may have connected the dots. :)
6 posted on 10/30/2005 8:48:37 AM PST by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: gondramB
I didn't read all these details, but France's national interest lay in keeping Saddam in power and removing the sanctions. Isn't that why they opposed, even undermined, the war? I would not be surprised if France did a lot well before the war to try to prevent it.

I wonder why France signed on to UN 1441 in light of all that?

7 posted on 10/30/2005 8:51:35 AM PST by NutCrackerBoy
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To: NutCrackerBoy

"I didn't read all these details, but France's national interest lay in keeping Saddam in power and removing the sanctions. Isn't that why they opposed, even undermined, the war? I would not be surprised if France did a lot well before the war to try to prevent it."


So why create fake documents that would influence us in the direction of war? Italy was much more supportive of war - they seem like a more likely source on the surface.


8 posted on 10/30/2005 8:53:36 AM PST by gondramB
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To: paperjam

beautiful work.....cached those web pages???!!!


9 posted on 10/30/2005 8:53:48 AM PST by mo
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To: paperjam

Dunno about all this, but we're definitely not hearing the whole fishy story of who leaked what when and why.


10 posted on 10/30/2005 8:53:50 AM PST by mtbopfuyn (Legality does not dictate morality... Lavin)
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To: gondramB

This is a long read, but I think the gist of it is that France had financial reasons to have Saddam continue in office thus NO war on Irag.

This does need to be investigated.

Jen


11 posted on 10/30/2005 8:54:10 AM PST by IVote2 ( God Bless our military men and women! Thank you for your service.)
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To: IVote2

"This is a long read, but I think the gist of it is that France had financial reasons to have Saddam continue in office thus NO war on Irag."

That part, I would think we would all agree with. I just don't understand yet how that translates into a motive to fake these particular documents - I'm not close minded on it - it just seems like the documents encouraged war so I would think they were most likely faked by someone who supported war.


12 posted on 10/30/2005 8:58:13 AM PST by gondramB
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To: gondramB
I'm unclear on how the fake documents would have helped the French economy...in the game of Chess, a Gambit, a set-up.

The Froggies, reveal the US copies to the UN, are fakes, thereby discrediting the US (thats why, US used UK's Iraq "White Paper", Traitor/Turncoat Wilson's Documents were "tainted" :) case for going to war against Iraq....preserving the Froggies' claim on Iraq's Oil Contracts.

13 posted on 10/30/2005 8:59:28 AM PST by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: paperjam
BUMPING (with great interest!)
14 posted on 10/30/2005 9:02:36 AM PST by hummingbird (Think I'll google for a while.....on FRED THOMPSON for a seat on the SUPREME COURT!)
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To: gondramB
I'm unclear on how the fake documents would have helped the French economy.

Let's see if I follow this. Fake documents postpone the war, negotiations follow, possibly leading to the lifting of sactions against Iraq, and then:

“French oil giant TotalFinaElf has exclusive exploration contracts worth €60bn - €75bn to develop the massive Majnoon and Bin Umar oilfields in southern Iraq,” said David Perle former US Assistant Defense Secretary before Saddam was ousted. “What’s distinctive about the Total contract is that it’s not favourable to Iraq, it’s favourable to Total.” He said oil experts who had analyzed the deal described it as “extraordinarily lopsided” in favour of the French company with the well connected Canadian shareholders. The one thing Perle didn’t know was that this very lucrative deal was contingent on UN sanctions being lifted, a move that assured Saddam a lot of support at the UN, especially if he was entering contracts with big payofffs like this.

15 posted on 10/30/2005 9:03:11 AM PST by THX 1138
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To: gondramB
Finally someone else makes the connection of France, Total Fina Elf, and Iraq.

France had a lot to lose if the United States went to war in Iraq. And it did.

France knew two things:

1)That the invasion would lead to an investigation of the U.N.s oil for food program.

2)Within the by laws, rules, and charters of the United Nations and agreed upon by all belonging to the U.N, all contracts made by a dictator who has been over thrown/ removed that are detrimental to the country of origin are null and void.

Total Fina Elf/ France stood to lose something like 4-10 Billion dollars if the contracts they held were voided.

They were voided.

The false documents were meant to discredit information that led to the invasion of Iraq. It was meant to help France regain a foothold in keeping the oil contracts they signed with Saddam.

France was and still is neck deep in this. The United Nations as well.
16 posted on 10/30/2005 9:07:05 AM PST by baystaterebel (http://omphalosgazer.blogspot.com/)
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To: paperjam

I've thought for a long time Wilson is a spy for France. Since we know his first wife was a French intelligence agent it would only make sense. What if he married Valarie to get inside info from the CIA? When he married her he already knew she was no longer "covert" and would be working inside the puzzle palace. As you said, the whole trip to Niger could have been part of the plan to discredit the Bush administration.


17 posted on 10/30/2005 9:07:30 AM PST by McGavin999 (Reporters write the Truth, Journalists write "Stories")
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To: Calpernia; Velveeta; DAVEY CROCKETT; LucyT

Ping


18 posted on 10/30/2005 9:09:10 AM PST by nw_arizona_granny (The only way to eat safe food, is to grow it yourself and learn to cook it. Grow herbs for healing.)
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To: gondramB

The fake documents were intended to throw the US off the war footing we were taking against Iraq.

France stood to lose billions over it, but their plan backfired because they didn't know that the British had put together a white paper on Niger uranium. That is what Bush used in his 2003 State of The Union Address.


19 posted on 10/30/2005 9:09:32 AM PST by paperjam
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To: gondramB
Image hosted by Photobucket.com i think they were going to use it like a get out of jail free card at the time and place of their chosing to make the US/UK look foolish and say the war is unjustified...
20 posted on 10/30/2005 9:09:51 AM PST by Chode (American Hedonist )
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To: paperjam

From the instant that Wilson barged onto the scene --- carrying the anti-war flag --- I sensed he was a self serving and lying "dandy"....


We won't know the truth, until the bastard is placed under oath and questioned....

I doubt it will ever happen.
Semper Fi


21 posted on 10/30/2005 9:14:10 AM PST by river rat (You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: skinkinthegrass

Exactly Correct! Wilson was Plan B.

What they didn't count on was the British doing their own background investigations.

France counted on the UN to suppress our going to war.

Bottom line...If the documents could be proved fake, all our evidence for going to war would be rendered suspect.

With no war, France gets rich on Iraqi oil.


22 posted on 10/30/2005 9:14:29 AM PST by paperjam
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To: paperjam

Very interesting! Nice work!

If this is true, which I think is a good part of the story, France is even more complicit in keeping Saddam in power, averting the war and undermining the US. They are more like Vichy France than we had imagined. Gives me more reason to dislike France, if that's possible.


23 posted on 10/30/2005 9:18:32 AM PST by caver (Yes, I did crawl out of a hole in the ground.)
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To: McGavin999
"Since we know his first wife was a French intelligence agent it would only make sense."

I didn't realize she was a French intelligence agent. Do we know this for certain? I googled for her but didn't find anything. This is huge if true!

Jen

24 posted on 10/30/2005 9:27:58 AM PST by IVote2 ( God Bless our military men and women! Thank you for your service.)
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To: paperjam

Just noting Wilson's trip to Niger was in February 2002, 8 months before the fake documents officially surfaced in Italy in October 2002.

But there are some investigative angles that indicate the documents date earlier than that and were passed on to the US through the US embassy in Italy as early as 2000. The US then re-leaked them through Martino. This is where the dems are going with the issue now.

But Martino has apparently confessed to Italian prosecutors recently that he did, indeed, make the fake documents (with French Intelligence help as well.)


25 posted on 10/30/2005 9:29:39 AM PST by JustDoItAlways
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To: paperjam
Frances plan would cement and the war would be averted either by the UN or the American public. Eventually, Iraq would be sanction free and France would reap the benefits...

hehehe...In the game of Chess, Gambit, a set-up. (and Life/Business :), THE FROGGIES, STILL LOSE, BIGTIME! :D

26 posted on 10/30/2005 9:32:13 AM PST by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: Peach; Miss Marple

FYI


27 posted on 10/30/2005 9:35:55 AM PST by SE Mom (God Bless those who serve..)
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To: Howlin; Cindy

ping


28 posted on 10/30/2005 9:40:32 AM PST by REDWOOD99
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To: paperjam; ravingnutter; SE Mom

Check freeper ravingnutter's posts (do a search). Ravingnutter has accessed some of the information you are looking for and has been interested in the foreign connections and Wilson's second wife as well.


29 posted on 10/30/2005 9:42:26 AM PST by Peach (I believe Congressman Weldon.)
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To: paperjam
This would explain why he knew that the documents were forged before they were even released.  According to a Michael Barone article Published in the Chicago Sun Times (CST Link here)  (FR Link here)  "...He said that he pointed out that certain other intelligence reports were forged. But the forgeries did not appear until eight months after his trip...."  If this is true, he could only have know they were forgeries back then if he had inside information.  That inside information must have come from his ex-wife. Or if he was a double-agent as one of the other Freepers mentioned. Timelines are a beautiful thing.

The plot continually thickens.  I think he was so determined to bring down the President that he opened his mouth and shouldn't have.  I believe he'll go down for this when it all comes out.  Good detective work Paperjam.  Thanks and keep it up. Please add me to your ping list if you have one.

30 posted on 10/30/2005 9:43:23 AM PST by gooleyman ( What about the baby's "RIGHT TO CHOOSE"?????? I bet the baby would chose LIFE.)
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To: IVote2

I believe Wilson's frogette was wife number 2. She was a French embassy employee in one of the 3rd tier countries where he served or rambled through in Africa. He was still married to the frogette when he was tiddling Valerie and Valerie was telling Joe about her Agency affliation "during a heavy makeout session" (as per Joe's own memoirs).

Wilson Wife #1 is the mother of the senior Wilson twin children, Valerie the 3rd, the mother of the junior twin Wilson children.

With Wilson's ego, mouth and pretensions, he wouldn't make a good spy for anyone. He makes Maxwell Smart look discreet.

What is somewhat curious is the fact that Wilson does not seem to come from money nor do any of the Wilson spouses seem to have been well off but Joe has lived QUITE well for a double divorcee with 4 kids to support, on a foreign service salary/pension, and a make-believe company he started that is supposedly headquartered in a warehouse in DC. Something the press has no interest in investigating.


31 posted on 10/30/2005 9:45:04 AM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: JustDoItAlways

None of this is true! jerry Springer said last week that the faked docs were created by Libby and Rove! /sarc opf


32 posted on 10/30/2005 9:47:55 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra; paperjam; All
Jerry Springer said last week that the faked docs were created by Libby and Rove!

...You forgot, Cheney and the Jooosss. :D

33 posted on 10/30/2005 9:54:37 AM PST by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: paperjam
What intrigues me greatly, why would the CIA allow France to influence foreign policy. Somewhere along the lines something at the CIA is fishy.

1) Why isn't the CIA on top of who is requesting yellow cake purchases from uranium producing countries, especially 3rd world countries?

2) Who in the CIA approved Wilson's mission?

3) Why did Tenet demand an investigation of the so called Plame outing when it turns out that Plame wasn't covert since 1998?

4) We know what you said about Russo Martino to be true. Why didn't the CIA figure that out in a timely manner and act accordingly by putting out a statement to protect the status of our foreign policy?

5) It seems to me the Madame Plame's marriage to Wilson, considering who his expose was, endangered the CIA/US. Considering France's position on the Iraq issue why did the CIA approve Wilson's mission to Niger
34 posted on 10/30/2005 9:58:53 AM PST by Chgogal (Viva Bush, the real revolutionary. We're winning the WOT in Iraq! Goodbye Che. Hello W!)
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To: gondramB

"I'm unclear on how the fake documents would have helped the French economy."

I am too. The "french conspiration" theory is...well, much too far-fetched to work here. Occam's razor goes against it.


35 posted on 10/30/2005 10:09:22 AM PST by Atlantic Friend (Cursum Perficio)
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To: NutCrackerBoy
"I wonder why France signed on to UN 1441 in light of all that?"

For the same reason democrats were willing to vote for a use of military strength, but not a declaration of war.

It was a simple ruse used to justify a stance on either side, and blame those who actually make decisions for their decisions no matter what the decision was.

France signed 1441 so that they could be "tough" with saddamn, and then be the ones to walk in and say "We have these BRILLIANT inspectors who say that Saddam is only guilty of neglect, without any sinister plot" This would mean that France can take a strong stance, and then back away with not only honor but glory for having gotten to the bottom of the problem. Once France had finished with their glorious ability to convince the world and avert a bloody war, they could then claim that the neglect over the previous 11-13 years was caused by the UN Sanctions, thereby having the sanctions removed, and then glorying in the wealth that would come out of Iraq as the primary wester service nation for criminals of every ilk.
36 posted on 10/30/2005 10:22:26 AM PST by wickedpinto (The road map to peace is a straight line down an Israeli rifle.)
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To: gondramB

I agree completely gondram.

There are dots that are connected, Connecting dots is easy, the question is how long and straight the lines are.


37 posted on 10/30/2005 10:23:53 AM PST by wickedpinto (The road map to peace is a straight line down an Israeli rifle.)
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To: wickedpinto

Spot on and exactly what I think happened, or at least what they intended to happen.


38 posted on 10/30/2005 10:28:41 AM PST by paperjam
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To: IVote2; McGavin999
I didn't realize she was a French intelligence agent. Do we know this for certain?

We don't. We merely speculate that she might be. When Wilson met Miss Jacqueline, she was a Cultural Attache for the French Embassy. This is a diplomatic role that is often, but not always, occupied by DGSE personnel.

Thus, speculation is legitimate. But there is no certainty.

39 posted on 10/30/2005 10:38:58 AM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: paperjam; Shermy; dirtboy; Wolfstar; Fedora; piasa; cyncooper; Wuli
Another opus on Wilson's role and the likely perpetrators, based on the question of "who benefits". In this case, the premise is that the French, in general, and Total/Fina/Elf, in particular, are behind the scheme.

Total is a good working suspect, wrapped up as it was in Iraq, Oil-For-Food and the UN hierarchy. Recall that there are family connections between Total's ownership, the Canadian government and Canadian officials at the UN. Marc Steyn has exposed much of this connection.

One question for paperjam, though. In January, 2003, Wilson is on record (via speeches at UCSB and an op-ed in the San Jose Mercury-News) as arguing against a war with Iraq because:

1. Hussein had WMD.

2. Would use them.

Note that this timing is a.) adjacent to Bush's SOTU "sixteen words", b.) ten months after Wilson returned from Niger and c.) three months after the "forged documents" (actually "holographs") came into U.S. hands.

What explanation might you have for Wilson's volte-face in January, if he was indeed part of a plot that stemmed back to February?

40 posted on 10/30/2005 10:53:57 AM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: paperjam
I thought that the definitely-forged documents did not come into the picture until several months after Wilson's tea-sipping trip to Niger...so he wasn't trying to verify or disprove them at the time of his trip.

According to Joe Wilson's entry in the 1998 edition of Who's Who in America, wife #2 was Jacqueline Marylene Giorgi. They were married July 1, 1986 (the first marriage ended in divorce in 1986). There is no mention of Jacqueline in the later editions (although wife #1 continues to be named).

41 posted on 10/30/2005 10:55:30 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: pitbully

ping


42 posted on 10/30/2005 11:01:54 AM PST by granite (I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.)
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To: Chgogal
Fishy is right! What concerns me most is the CIA's involvement is this affair.
Have they devolved into a Ministry of Propaganda that would make Goebbels proud?
Why do we even need the CIA? What good are they? How much money can we save by eliminating that bureaucratic nightmare?
43 posted on 10/30/2005 11:07:20 AM PST by Blue State Insurgent (Go to bed, Zotty!)
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To: IVote2
No, we don't know for certain, but there have been rumors on the streets for a long time that she was/is. Someone who SHOULD know is our CIA.

I refuse to believe that the whole agency is corrupt, so there must be some people out there who are looking into this. There has to be people within the agency that are horrified by this entire thing, the leaking to the press, the whole WMD fiasco (Saddam only had WMDs when Clinton was in office and bombing Iraq, but suddenly as soon as Bush takes office they never existed?)

The only thing worse than having the CIA politicized is having it infiltrated by foreign agents pursuing their countries agenda over the wellbeing of the United States.

44 posted on 10/30/2005 11:19:32 AM PST by McGavin999 (Reporters write the Truth, Journalists write "Stories")
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To: paperjam
>Is this the "French Connection" we were looking for?

So, suddenly France
is competent enough to
cause a crisis in

our Presidency?!
It is a little far-fetched.
For what it's worth, this

"French Connection" is
the only French connection
I would want to make:


45 posted on 10/30/2005 11:26:17 AM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: paperjam
There is an error in your detailed write-up. As I understand it, Wilson claimed later that the forged documents were part of the basis of his negative opinion about the Niger connection. But the forged documents, which were poor forgeries since the Niger official signatures were up to ten years out of date, were not slipped to British and American intelligence people until seven months after Wilson's trip.

So, Wilson was lying in his book when he said that was part of his negative conclusion. But if that's so, it also means that the forgeries were not a set-up job done for discovery by Wilson. That undercuts your conclusion, so you need to check your timeline on this point.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column: "The Next Woman Nominated to the Supreme Court: This Time, No Death of a Thousand Cuts"

46 posted on 10/30/2005 11:39:50 AM PST by Congressman Billybob (Do you think Fitzpartick resembled Captain Queeg, coming apart on the witness stand?)
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To: okie01

I can't explain that part yet. However, he knew about the documents when he shouldn't have. I'd love to get him under oath and ask how he knew something no one else could have possibly known.

The more I think about it, the more I think that his second wife may be playing both sides of the table. I just can't prove it because there is almost no mention of her on the web.

Maybe someone else can have better luck ferreting her out but it sure is odd that there is so little on her. Hell, I can find more information on myself than I can her and I'm just a ditto head nobody.


47 posted on 10/30/2005 11:54:04 AM PST by paperjam
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To: Verginius Rufus

That's true. However, he is on the record as having said that he knew there was something wrong with the names on the documents.

How could he possibly have known something like that unless he knew in advance they were fakes?

As far as Jacqueline, she's a ghost on the web! I haven't been able to find here anywhere except in the one link I've provided above in the body of the story.


48 posted on 10/30/2005 11:57:57 AM PST by paperjam
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To: paperjam
Hell, I can find more information on myself than I can her and I'm just a ditto head nobody.

Interesting that we've been unable to even ascertain her maiden name. Jacqueline Wilson is the only name we've got.

49 posted on 10/30/2005 11:58:17 AM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Great observation and one I've been wrestling with. How could he have known something that no one else could have.

Either he's lying or he was in on it from the start. That's why I think this story has legs.

IMHO


50 posted on 10/30/2005 12:01:30 PM PST by paperjam
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