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Truth on Trial--What you can no longer say about our enemy in the terror war.
FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | October 31, 2005 | Phyllis Chesler

Posted on 10/31/2005 5:46:25 AM PST by SJackson

Are we winning the war against terror or more precisely, against the death-cult ideology of extreme hate that employs terror as one of its weapons? America, Britain and Israel have all committed significant sums of money to fight back militarily and to ensure civilian safety. However, we must fight another very hot war, one which will ultimately decide whether Western Civilization lives or dies. This is a war we are not winning and some argue that it is a war we have not yet even begun to fight.

I am talking about The Culture War, the war that must be fought to oppose the campaign of lies and propaganda that Islamists and western Stalinists launched against the West, beginning with Israel, arguably anywhere from forty to seventy years ago.

The Culture War is a very hot war: no prisoners are taken, no mercy is shown. And there are now penalties for trying to tell the truth about the danger of jihad or about the barbaric and pathological nature of militant Islam today. Indeed, if you try to discuss the Islamic religious and gender apartheid and its dangerous proliferation into Europe and North America (i.e. there have been honor killings in Cincinnati, St. Louis, Chicago, Jersey City, Toronto, as well as all over Europe and in the Muslim world), this is what will happen to you:

If you tell these truths in the Arab and Muslim world, you’ll be beheaded, probably tortured, certainly jailed, exiled if you are lucky. Many Muslim and Christian dissidents have suffered precisely this fate. There are no more Jews there, the Islamist Caliphate has rendered the entire Middle East Judenrein long ago. Try to say this in Europe and you might be butchered, as Theo Von Gogh was, or simply imprisoned in purdah, veiled, or threatened, forced to go into hiding, or honor-murdered as so many Muslim girls and women are.

Try to tell the moral tragedy that the United Nations represents, or the even greater tragedy that the word “Palestine” has come to represent objectively, and therefore in a non-politically correct way, on European and on North American campuses, or on the increasingly left-dominated liberal media airwaves, and you may not be shot on the spot, but you will be slandered and called a “racist” and a “fascist.” I have been called both.

If you are a North American intellectual, you may not be imprisoned or be-headed but you will be heckled, mocked, and shunned. You might need security in order to speak. If you’re a feminist, you will no longer be taken seriously as an intellectual, nor will you be “heard.”

Expose the permanent Intifada against Western Civilization and against the Jews and you will be sued and driven into exile, as Oriana Fallaci has been, or sued and prevented from traveling to certain countries, as Rachel Ehrenfeld has been. You will be sued and silenced in all those places where you were once published, even lionized. Dare to say that the torturer and genocidal tyrant, Saddam Hussein, is on trial today only because of America and Iraq’s sacrifice and their bold vision of democracy and you will be called a reactionary, a liar, a fool, and the worse epithet of all: a conservative.

Both Western leftists and Islamists brandish many tools against America and Israel in this war. Their first weapon is the systematic misuse of language. Mainstream and liberal newspapers write about “insurgents,” not “terrorists,” whom they describe as “martyrs,” not “killers, and as “freedom fighters,” not as “well educated evil men.”

Anti-American and anti-Israel demonstrators, who are clearly and visibly filled with hate and rage, are described as “peace activists.” Anti-Semitism is legitimized, while the slightest criticism of Islam is banned because of the disallowance of “Islamophobia.” Telling the truth has become an offense which is unprotected by free speech doctrines, which instead protect the telling of lies.

I was once held captive in Kabul, Afghanistan. I experienced, first-hand, what life is like in a Muslim country, one that has never been colonized by the West. I learned that it was both foolish and dangerous to romanticize Third World countries. And, I learned first-hand, that evil and barbarism exist a priori, and are not caused by western imperialism or colonialism or by the “Zionist entity.” It’s where I also learned to reject the doctrine of multiculturalism, that teaches that all cultures are equal, formerly colonized cultures even more so. This leads to isolationism and non-interventionism and condemns millions of civilians to Islamist torture, terror and genocide.

Although, to their credit, a handful of feminist activists and journalists have sounded the alarm, once America invaded Afghanistan, these very activists, all Democratic Party operatives, swiftly opposed the military routing of the Taliban. And why? Because the expedition had not been undertaken, apparently, with women in mind. It’s as if they did not think that bin Laden’s terrorism kills women too.

I hold the Western academy, including the feminist academy, which has been utterly Palestinianized, responsible for failing to expose and condemn the realities of Islamic gender apartheid. I know feminist graduate students who are busy “de-constructing” the veil, polygamy and arranged marriage as possible expressions of feminist or female power—no different than the bikini. None have congratulated President Bush on his excellent choice of Condoleeza Rice as Secretary of State and none have given her the slightest credit for her pro-woman, pro-human rights and pro-Israel speeches.

The number of lies being told in the Western academy and among western activists are literally beyond belief. Here’s one: Mohammed was really great to women, especially to one Safiya bint Huyay whom he married—even though she was Jewish. Yes. But first he beheaded her father and her husband and exterminated her entire village. And then he forced poor Safiya to convert to Islam before he married her. This disinformation campaign leaves me speechless.

Our own intelligentsia—our professors—are so politically correct and so multi-culturally relativist, that they refuse to call “barbaric” the act of stoning a woman to death because she was raped or because she refused to marry her first cousin. Nor will they denounce subjecting women to genital mutilation and public gang-rape as “barbaric.” Nor did American media commentators who showed the Palestinian lynching of two Israeli reservists in Ramallah in 2000 describe the event, which they played over and over again, as “barbaric.”

The intelligentsia did not describe what was done to us on 9/11 as “barbaric” either. Indeed, I know American and European intellectuals who are convinced that America and Israel are the greatest barbarians of all, and that we deserved 9/11. According to Islamists and Western academics and journalists, Bin Laden is not an “Islamo-fascist." To them, President George W. Bush and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon are the “Nazi fascists.”

And then there is that vast industry of Palestinian, Arab League and United Nations funded and distributed doctored footage and fake film massacres, fake gun battles, the faked death of Palestinian children at Jewish and Israeli hands. Our Islamist opponents have turned out this propaganda nonstop around the world.

As propagandists, they are far more sophisticated than Goebbels, and far more patient. We cannot afford to underestimate their skill at telling Big Lies. Islamists understood that if they funded madrassas in the East and Middle Eastern Institutes in the West, and if they funded the total Palestinianization of the United Nations and of every international human rights groups that in thirty to fifty years, they would have brainwashed generations to see things their way.

Islam is sacred -- it cannot be insulted. Imagined slights are as important as real slights. Lies have as much weight as the truth. Whether American military forces did or did not flush a Koran down the toilet does not matter. What matters is that Muslims thought they did. No penance is good enough to atone for this crime.

Millions of people have been systematically brainwashed against America, against Israel, against Jews, against women and against the western concept of truth, objectivity, truth-telling, and independent thinking. All are under siege.

We have a serious fifth column in our midst, one that has made common cause with Islamists against us, one that has been well funded by Arab oil billionaires for more than forty years. Now, George Soros too, a fifth column General who, for a variety of reasons, has actually been leading the cultural war against the West. They are fools—but they are dangerous fools. Do they think they will be spared because they are so politically correct? Do they think that they would enjoy the same freedom of speech in Mecca or Tehran that they enjoy in the West?

What must we do in the face of this tyrannical threat? We must rescue language. It must bear some relationship to the truth and morality. Everything is not relative. It is not all Rashomon. We must not allow our media or academics to continue to insist that Islam is not the problem, but that even if it is, that we cannot say so, lest we be deemed racist. We must teach the history of jihad against infidels, and the history of how infidels (Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians) were treated under Islam. We must insist that criticism of America and Israel be balanced, not pathological, obsessive and cult-like as it is now. We must insist on civility in public discourse. We must model it for the coming generations.

We must fund seriously a collective effort to combat vulgar lies and vilification, the propaganda against us which has brainwashed countless generations.

We need a War Room effort to counter the Big Lies. We need international radio and television channels to educate people. We need to teach people about intellectual diversity and tolerance.

This country has birthed two significant waves of feminism. We must now take that feminist vision global. We need our foreign policy to contain serious provisions about women’s rights abroad. Otherwise, democracy cannot and will not evolve or flourish in Muslim countries.

The way I see it, everything is at stake. This is a time when we must all be heroes. We must all stand up to evil in our lifetime. We must acknowledge that Islamist terrorism is evil and has no justification. We must teach this to our children. We must support Muslim and Arab dissidents in their fight against Islamic tyranny and gender apartheid. We can do this. We must do this. Otherwise, we will die, and our history and our values and our entire way of life will die with us. If we fail, we will betray all that we believe in as a free people.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: culturewars; jihadists; phyllischesler; propaganda; wwiv
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 10/31/2005 5:46:27 AM PST by SJackson
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

..........................................

2 posted on 10/31/2005 5:51:47 AM PST by SJackson (God isn`t dead. We just can`t talk to Him in the classroom anymore, R Reagan.)
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To: SJackson
Stop the appesaement

Stop the growth of this backwards mind set into the very heart of Western civilization..

Then push back.

Force Westernization upon them everywhere.

Nothing else will work.
3 posted on 10/31/2005 5:53:00 AM PST by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: SJackson

Good essay! I'd say Free Republic is the closest thing we have to a War Room right now.


4 posted on 10/31/2005 5:53:59 AM PST by wizardoz
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self ping


5 posted on 10/31/2005 5:56:03 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: SJackson
We are at "Total War" whether we acknowledge it or Not!

Our precious national existence is at stake here. Take no prisoners,grant no truce and accept no surrender!

6 posted on 10/31/2005 6:07:42 AM PST by STD (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: SJackson

Big bump.


8 posted on 10/31/2005 6:17:37 AM PST by aculeus
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To: SJackson
Radical Islam is an insane murder cult; moderate Islam is its Trojan Horse in the West.
9 posted on 10/31/2005 6:30:44 AM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: BenLurkin

We will have to come very close to their exterminiation before the will submit. The left of the West cannot accept this reality, they are a greater threat than Islam in the big picture. And they control the media.


10 posted on 10/31/2005 6:57:54 AM PST by conservativewasp (Liberals lie for sport and hate their country. Islam is a terrorist organization.)
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To: SJackson
We have a serious fifth column in our midst, one that has made common cause with Islamists against us, one that has been well funded by Arab oil billionaires for more than forty years.

Exactly!

11 posted on 10/31/2005 7:12:46 AM PST by Gritty ("There are no 'civilians'. You are either the House Of War or the House Of Islam - Hani Al-Siba’i)
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To: Salem; Bombardier; Esther Ruth; F15Eagle; agrace; Shalom Israel; American in Israel; timsbella; ...

Ping!


12 posted on 10/31/2005 7:34:12 AM PST by Convert from ECUSA (Not a nickel, not a dime, no more money for Hamastine!)
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To: Travis McGee

NTSA!


13 posted on 10/31/2005 7:45:25 AM PST by Valin (Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum)
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To: conservativewasp
We will have to come very close to their exterminiation before the will submit.

I, for one, do not think we should wait for our cities to become smoking ruins before exterminating our enemies with extreme prejudice.

It's time the planet is cured of the worldwide mental illness known as Islam. Destroy every Islamic holy site. Vaporize Mecca, Medina, Qom, Damascus, Tehran, Riyadh, Islamabad, Mogadishu and their disgusting mosque in our "Holy City" of Jerusalem.

Demonstrate to them that Allah, their false moon-god, is worthless and impotent. Destroying their faith is the only way to win this war.

Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, Berlin, Dresden. We haven't had much trouble from the Japanese or Germans lately. MacArthur and Patton must be spinning in their graves over our failure to learn from history.

5000 years of recorded history proves conclusively that "Peace" can never be "negotiated". The losers must beg for it.

14 posted on 10/31/2005 7:53:26 AM PST by 10mm
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To: conservativewasp

"The Red Jihad"..


15 posted on 10/31/2005 8:02:00 AM PST by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: SJackson; Lando Lincoln; quidnunc; .cnI redruM; Valin; King Prout; dennisw; monkeyshine; ...
Phyllis Chesler:

...As propagandists, they are far more sophisticated than Goebbels, and far more patient. We cannot afford to underestimate their skill at telling Big Lies. Islamists understood that if they funded madrassas in the East and Middle Eastern Institutes in the West, and if they funded the total Palestinianization of the United Nations and of every international human rights groups that in thirty to fifty years, they would have brainwashed generations to see things their way.

...Millions of people have been systematically brainwashed against America, against Israel, against Jews, against women and against the western concept of truth, objectivity, truth-telling, and independent thinking. All are under siege.

We have a serious fifth column in our midst, one that has made common cause with Islamists against us, one that has been well funded by Arab oil billionaires for more than forty years...

What must we do in the face of this tyrannical threat? We must rescue language. It must bear some relationship to the truth and morality. Everything is not relative.

...We must fund seriously a collective effort to combat vulgar lies and vilification, the propaganda against us which has brainwashed countless generations.

We need a War Room effort to counter the Big Lies. We need international radio and television channels to educate people. We need to teach people about intellectual diversity and tolerance.

...The way I see it, everything is at stake. This is a time when we must all be heroes. We must all stand up to evil in our lifetime. We must acknowledge that Islamist terrorism is evil and has no justification. We must teach this to our children. We must support Muslim and Arab dissidents in their fight against Islamic tyranny and gender apartheid. We can do this. We must do this. Otherwise, we will die, and our history and our values and our entire way of life will die with us. If we fail, we will betray all that we believe in as a free people.


Nailed It!
Moral Clarity BUMP !

This ping list is not author-specific for articles I'd like to share. Some for the perfect moral clarity, some for provocative thoughts; or simply interesting articles I'd hate to miss myself. (I don't have to agree with the author all 100% to feel the need to share an article.) I will try not to abuse the ping list and not to annoy you too much, but on some days there is more of the good stuff that is worthy of attention. You can see the list of articles I pinged to lately  on  my page.
You are welcome in or out, just freepmail me (and note which PING list you are talking about). Besides this one, I keep 2 separate PING lists for my favorite authors Victor Davis Hanson and Orson Scott Card.  

16 posted on 10/31/2005 9:44:10 AM PST by Tolik
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To: SJackson
The biggest problem is that it is politically incorrect to blame Islam for Islamic terrorism. How can a religious ideology that spawns radical killers be given a total pass? It is not logical.

Mainstream Muslims, far from taking responsibility for the killers their ideology gives birth to, actually have the nerve to get angry when it is suggested that Islamic ideology is to blame.

Instead, unbelievably, they blame us for the terrorism. We are responsible for our own deaths? The idea is insane. Moderate Muslims who promote this insanity in the form of propaganda are as responsible for terrorism's death and destruction as the terrorists themselves. They need to be imprisoned or deported. No exceptions.

The warnings from our leaders that we need to "be nice" to our enemies is the worst sort of treason. Political correctness is a form of mental illness.
17 posted on 10/31/2005 9:47:59 AM PST by monday
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To: thompsonsjkc; odoso; animoveritas; mercygrace; Laissez-faire capitalist; bellevuesbest; ...

Moral Absolutes Ping.

All cultures, all ideologies, all beliefs are not equal. Read the above article, and then read the next I'll ping out in a minute. It's an illustration.

Freepmail me if you want on/off this pinglist.


18 posted on 10/31/2005 10:17:39 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah

I disagree with this statement:

"This country has birthed two significant waves of feminism. We must now take that feminist vision global."

Feminism is evil. What Muslim women need is not "womyns' studies", lesbianism, piercing, abortion rights, or "A Woman needs a husband like a fish needs a bicycle" bumperstickers.

Muslim women need what Muslim men need - human rights and freedom from tyranny and a tyrannical fanatic religion.


19 posted on 10/31/2005 10:26:31 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: 10mm
"Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, Berlin, Dresden. "

If it's barbaric for the Islamofascist jihadists to deliberately target civilians, it's barbaric for the USA or anybody else to deliberately target civilians.

20 posted on 10/31/2005 10:30:09 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (As always, striving for accuracy.)
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To: Travis McGee

Islam delenda est.


21 posted on 10/31/2005 10:31:09 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
If it's barbaric for the Islamofascist jihadists to deliberately target civilians, it's barbaric for the USA or anybody else to deliberately target civilians.

So you disagree with the actions we took to win World War II? War is Hell. Supporters of our enemies are by definition...enemies. In total war, there are no civilians. Make no mistake, this is Total War.

After a few of their "holy sites" are vaporized and we kill several hundred million of them, the rest will be forced to join the civilized world, or die.

I will not allow my children to be enslaved or murdered and if it takes the complete extermination of Islam to ensure that, so be it.

22 posted on 10/31/2005 10:42:53 AM PST by 10mm
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To: Tolik
What must we do in the face of this tyrannical threat? We must rescue language. It must bear some relationship to the truth and morality. Everything is not relative.

...We must fund seriously a collective effort to combat vulgar lies and vilification, the propaganda against us which has brainwashed countless generations.

We need a War Room effort to counter the Big Lies. We need international radio and television channels to educate people. We need to teach people about intellectual diversity and tolerance.

...The way I see it, everything is at stake. We must acknowledge that Islamist terrorism is evil and has no justification.

We need to educate Americans - and people living in the ME. This is first and formost a war of ideas. And ours have to win.

23 posted on 10/31/2005 11:00:06 AM PST by GOPJ (Is every democrat a bent kneed Monica?)
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To: 10mm

Point of clarification: are you an atheist?


24 posted on 10/31/2005 11:06:13 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (As always, striving for accuracy.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

No Ma'am. Orthodox Jew.


25 posted on 10/31/2005 11:08:27 AM PST by 10mm
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To: Convert from ECUSA; 10mm

thanks C from E for the ping.

I agree with 10mm.


26 posted on 10/31/2005 11:32:36 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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To: Convert from ECUSA

Lord give us strength, wisdom, courage, faith to continue to battle!!!

He is Faithful, always has been, always will be!
Some trust in Chariots but we will Trust in Him - May we Trust in the Lord with ALL our Hearts and draw so Near To HIM!


27 posted on 10/31/2005 11:49:07 AM PST by Esther Ruth (I have loved thee with an EVERLASTING LOVE, Jeremiah 31:3 Genesis 12:1-3)
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To: SJackson

big bump


28 posted on 10/31/2005 12:19:10 PM PST by ThePythonicCow (To err is human; to moo is bovine.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I'm a Christian. Yet I see that we are involved in total war with these animals. We will ultimately have to destroy their source of financial and material support. That will involve large amounts of "collateral damage", just as Dresden, Nagasaki, and Hiroshima did.
29 posted on 10/31/2005 12:19:51 PM PST by conservativewasp (Liberals lie for sport and hate their country. Islam is a terrorist organization.)
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To: SJackson
Good point:

We have a serious fifth column in our midst, one that has made common cause with Islamists against us, one that has been well funded by Arab oil billionaires for more than forty years. Now, George Soros too, a fifth column General who, for a variety of reasons, has actually been leading the cultural war against the West. They are fools—but they are dangerous fools. Do they think they will be spared because they are so politically correct? Do they think that they would enjoy the same freedom of speech in Mecca or Tehran that they enjoy in the West?

30 posted on 10/31/2005 1:46:59 PM PST by GOPJ (Is every democrat a bent kneed Monica?)
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To: conservativewasp
Dresden, Nagasaki, and Hiroshima noncombatant deaths were not collateral damage. They were part of the intention --- shock-and-awe or terror effect, means to an end ---- as expressed by the choice to use an indiscriminate weapon which would annihilate a significant part of the city and everybody within its radius of destruction.

Everybody was doing it --- yes. But it's still a war crime. And it certainly cannot be justified by the principles of a Just War nor by the precept or the example of Jesus Christ.

31 posted on 10/31/2005 2:08:23 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (As always, striving for accuracy.)
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To: wizardoz; STD; goushi
Good essay! I'd say Free Republic is the closest thing we have to a War Room right now.

We are at "Total War" whether we acknowledge it or Not!

Our precious national existence is at stake here. Take no prisoners,grant no truce and accept no surrender!

Yes, yes, yes,yes and yes on all points.

And as another poster commented, Lock and Load.

A well armed citizenry will not be defeated and we can not a even ponder defeat for the sake of our children and nation.

Victory shall be ours!

32 posted on 10/31/2005 3:00:03 PM PST by A message ( Being a "Progressive" means never having to be truthful to yourself)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Everybody was doing it --- yes. But it's still a war crime.

The victor decides what constitutes a "War Crime". There is no objective definition.

33 posted on 10/31/2005 4:53:17 PM PST by 10mm
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To: USF; Fred Nerks; Former Dodger; Dark Skies; AmericanArchConservative; Justanobody
Tell the TRUTH ping!

Telling the truth has become an offense which is unprotected by free speech doctrines, which instead protect the telling of lies.

34 posted on 10/31/2005 6:58:21 PM PST by jan in Colorado (God Bless The Troops!)
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To: SunkenCiv

I agree with 10 mm also.


35 posted on 10/31/2005 7:04:07 PM PST by sport
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To: Mrs. Don-o

You don't have to do it to them.

You can always let them do it to you.

They will be happy to oblidge you.


36 posted on 10/31/2005 7:06:30 PM PST by sport
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To: jan in Colorado

Thx for the ping, Jan.


37 posted on 10/31/2005 7:13:37 PM PST by Dark Skies ("A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants." -- Churchill)
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To: Dark Skies
:o)

Your tagline says it all!
38 posted on 10/31/2005 7:21:35 PM PST by jan in Colorado (God Bless The Troops!)
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To: jan in Colorado
Gettin kind of old...got it from the "weenie" guy.

Heard from USF tonite. Good to see the old warriors are still together.

39 posted on 10/31/2005 7:28:28 PM PST by Dark Skies ("A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants." -- Churchill)
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To: Dark Skies; Fred Nerks
...I miss weenie...never a dull moment when he was around. Yes, us old warriors aren't around as much as we use to be, but we can't stay away for long! It's great to see you!

OK Fred, it's your turn!

40 posted on 10/31/2005 7:36:17 PM PST by jan in Colorado (God Bless The Troops!)
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To: jan in Colorado; Dark Skies; USF; Former Dodger



The New Anti-Terror Laws in Australia
Anyone supporting the insurgency in Iraq or Afghanistan faces possible jail sentence


by Maz Bukhari

October 14, 2005
GlobalResearch.ca


Email this article to a friend
Print this article


Anti-Terror Laws or “TERRORIST” Laws

Jail Term for ILL WILL & OBJECTORS

Anyone supporting the insurgency in Iraq, Afghanistan or any country where Australian troops are deployed could face a penalty of 7 years' jail under the new terrorism laws.

Control orders of unlimited duration, secret preventive detention, the monitoring of lawyers, and life imprisonment for funding terrorist organisations are also suggested under the new laws.

The draft legislation, disclosed by Greens yesterday, details the far-reaching security regime proposed by John Howard for "very dangerous and difficult and threatening circumstances" in the wake of the London bombings.

New sedition offences will put big constraints on anti-war protests, familiar since the Vietnam era, and come down hard on those advocating violence against any religious, national or political group.

Those charged with sedition can argue they were acting "in good faith" but it is unclear how the courts will interpret this.

The bill sets out new federal police powers to detain terrorist suspects for up to 24 hours, and up to 48 hours with the approval of a judge or magistrate. Suspects will get access to a lawyer to challenge the detention order in a court or complain of maltreatment

Police do not need to give suspects or their lawyers reasons for the detentions and can monitor lawyers. All conversations lawyers have with their clients must be in English or translated into English for the police. Police are prohibited from questioning the detainees but that ban does not apply to ASIO officers.

Last month the states agreed to allow extensions of up to 14 days for detentions when a terrorist act is believed imminent. The suspect must then be released if no terrorist act occurs.

Detentions are secret but suspects are allowed to contact a family member or employers to say they are safe but, "not able to be contacted for the time being". If they disclose the detention they can be jailed for up to five years.

Under the bill, the Government can apply to a court for control orders on terrorist suspects who have not been charged. These orders include house arrest, preventing them using the telephone or internet and restricting their social contacts and work opportunities. Suspects can also be fitted with tracking devices.

The suspect's lawyer can be shown the control order but not necessarily the evidence or reasons behind it.

The orders can last up to 12 months and can then be renewed any number of times.

Persons under control orders may be given "counselling or education" if they agree.

The bill does limit to three months control orders on those aged between 16 and 18.

Also contained in the legislation are wide-ranging search powers that will compel the production of any documents relating to "any serious offence", regardless of any laws protecting privacy or legal privilege.,

The new laws are to be debated this month, after the Labor premiers agreed to their broad outline at the recent terrorism summit in Canberra.

The proposed laws have been strongly criticised by human rights lawyers and some Muslim leaders, who have described them as draconian.

Sweeping new anti-terror laws include a plan to jail people for up to seven years for promoting feelings of "ill will" or hostility between different groups that would threaten the peace.

As John Howard yesterday defended the measures, the federal Government was angered by ACT Chief Minister Jon Stanhope's decision to publish the 107-page draft bill on his website.

Surprising legal experts with the scope and definition of terrorist acts, the laws would also make it a criminal offence to support a terrorist act, directly or indirectly.

However, elements of the terrorism advocacy provisions are expected to be watered down after a backbench revolt over the draconian laws...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BUK20051014&articleId=1079


41 posted on 10/31/2005 7:36:56 PM PST by Fred Nerks (See my bio page for link to pdf download; THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD.)
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"However, elements of the terrorism advocacy provisions are expected to be watered down after a backbench revolt over the draconian laws..."

The Leader of the Opposition has since stated his complete agreement with our needs for greater security. Some small 'adjustments' will be agreed to - but on the whole, we expect this Bill to pass through Parliament.

WHOOOOHOOOO!!!!!

SEDITION!


42 posted on 10/31/2005 7:40:52 PM PST by Fred Nerks (See my bio page for link to pdf download; THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD.)
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To: Fred Nerks
Surprising legal experts with the scope and definition of terrorist acts, the laws would also make it a criminal offense to support a terrorist act, directly or indirectly.

WOW. If that went into effect here....all the liberals would be in jail!

43 posted on 10/31/2005 7:46:56 PM PST by jan in Colorado (God Bless The Troops!)
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To: jan in Colorado

LOL! I thought that to myself but wanted to give you the opportunity to make that observation.

Wouldn't that be great?

Remember, from little acorns, big oaks grow.


44 posted on 10/31/2005 7:50:42 PM PST by Fred Nerks (See my bio page for link to pdf download; THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD.)
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To: Fred Nerks

Then there's the Aspens... ;o)


45 posted on 10/31/2005 7:52:51 PM PST by jan in Colorado (God Bless The Troops!)
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To: jan in Colorado
Thanks for the ping Jan!

Great bedtime reading. ;*/

46 posted on 10/31/2005 8:12:13 PM PST by Just A Nobody (I - LOVE - my attitude problem! WBB lives on.)
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To: jan in Colorado; Fred Nerks
New sedition offences will put big constraints on anti-war protests, familiar since the Vietnam era, and come down hard on those advocating violence against any religious, national or political group.

Ohhhh, what I wouldn't give to see this put into effect here!

47 posted on 10/31/2005 8:21:10 PM PST by Just A Nobody (I - LOVE - my attitude problem! WBB lives on.)
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To: Justanobody
Mainstream and liberal newspapers write about “insurgents,” not “terrorists,” whom they describe as “martyrs,” not “killers, and as “freedom fighters,” not as “well educated evil men.”

It's not enough that we have the Islamo-fascist trying to destroy this Country....we have to contend with the enemy from within...the liberals and the MSM. Amazing, I can't tell the difference between the islamo-fascists and the pinko's.

48 posted on 10/31/2005 8:21:50 PM PST by jan in Colorado (God Bless The Troops!)
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To: jan in Colorado

you mean the aspens that turn red in the fall in clusters because their roots are connected?


49 posted on 10/31/2005 8:26:06 PM PST by Fred Nerks (See my bio page for link to pdf download; THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD.)
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To: jan in Colorado

"...the laws would also make it a criminal offense to support a terrorist act, directly or indirectly..."

So, that smarmy, filthy nightshirt-wearing cleric who said on camera that he thought Osama was a great man for organizing the 9/11 attack - that piece of disgusting 'humanity' - he's got two choices; keep his mouth shut or spend a whole lot of time behind bars.

(Mind you, I think many will simply go back to their hell-holes in the ME, or heaven forbid, attempt to migrate to the US!)


50 posted on 10/31/2005 8:34:53 PM PST by Fred Nerks (See my bio page for link to pdf download; THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD.)
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