Posted on 11/04/2005 3:24:09 AM PST by 8mmMauser
Family members are investigating what they consider to be suspicious circumstances surrounding the death of a nursing home patient at the center of a life and death tug-of-war reminiscent of the Terri Schiavo tragedy.
Seventy-nine-year-old Jimmy Chambers died in the early morning hours of Oct. 24 after the tracheotomy tubes that deliver oxygen from a ventilator to a hole in his neck became unhooked. Family members were told Chambers, a resident of the Anne Maria Rehabilitation and Nursing Center in North Augusta, S.C., apparently pulled the interlocking tubes apart.
"We're having it investigated. We're just incredulous," Chambers' daughter, Deanna Potter, told WND in reference to her siblings. "The last time I saw dad he was blowing me a kiss. I blew him one and he blew one back."
The retired dispatcher for Holland Motor Express died approximately 10 hours later. His death certificate indicates he died of "natural causes."
"Apparently, suffocation is a 'natural cause' when you're on a ventilator. We're contesting that," said Potter. "He suffocated. He didn't just pass away. He struggled and fought. And I'm just so angry."
Potter estimates it would have taken 10 to 14 minutes for her father, deprived of oxygen, to fall unconscious, and questions why the nursing home staff didn't come to his aid.
"The oxygen-saturation meter and his ventilator both would have had alarms going off. Four-thirty, five o'clock in the morning you'd think someone would hear this," she added. "That's the thing that really bothers me and makes me suspicious."
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
That makes me think, even more, that Mikey may have had extra keys made.
One of those visitors (or a friend of the visitor) could have let themselves into Terri's place that night. Maybe it was arranged for Michael to be at work when that person confronted Terri.
Michael may have been in shock, when he arrived home and he realized she was injured, yet alive. He would have needed extra time to think over his alibi.
I wonder if it is possible that Terri's "collapse" lasted 6 hours or more.
Michael may have been threatened by the fact that Terri was gaining confidence in her attractiveness. Maybe he was hoping to make her jealous of him, by subtly letting her know other women were willing to have affairs with him.
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that a whole lot of people were confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim that they require a "Bill of No Rights".
ARTICLE VI:
You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair.
BUMP to #878
Bill of Lefts, or is the opposite of Right Left or Wrong?
I can think of executions more cruel than the Old Sparky, thinking of the kindnesses recently visited on Crip Tookie.
Would dehydrating be too cruel?
8mm
Cruel? It's painless and merciful. You just drift happily away. You look beautiful. You are at peace. We heard all of these assurances in glowing terms from Horse Felos and Horse Schiavo.
Actually, Schiavo handed out three extra apartment keys -- one to Ted Bundy, one to O.J. Simpson and one to a shadowy figure named "Tookie." Does this help your theory that Mikey didn't do it?
Not at all. It's euphoric!
That's the question I spoke to. Once, we all knew what "dead" meant. But in the 1960s, with organ transplants becoming possible, a committee at Harvard proposed that "brain death" (irreversible coma) was the same as "dead." The whole point of this new definition was to allow them to carve up people with still beating hearts -- people who were NOT dead by the older and universal understanding -- in order to harvest healthy organs. That, of course, stopped the beating heart.
It's a kind of cannibalism. The people who do it can rationalize the morality by saying, "OK, we kill a hopeless patient, but it is to help another patient, or several, who have a chance to recover." That sounds good enough if one believes "any means to an end" is moral. I disagree completely. The Commandment says "Thou shalt not kill," not "Hey, killing people is OK if you're doing it for a good cause and making a lot of money for the hospital."
Now, I have never personally seen the definition of brain dead used to include someone who still had brain wave function(A layman might say so, but a doctor knows the difference between someone being really brain dead, and someone just being in an irreversible coma)...an irreversible coma would not necessarily be the same thing as brain death...I have taken care of people in irreversible comas, or in vegetative states...no doctor would ever call them brain dead...
Usually to be declared 'brain dead', there must be complete cessation of brain wave function(even minimal brain wave function indicates life)...unless you are saying that people with minimal brain wave function are being used as organ donors, which would of course be wrong...
But people who really are brain dead, can be placed on a ventilator, and the ventilator will keep their heart beating...the ventilator does what the dead brain can no longer do...now, ventiltors serve a purpose for those who need assistance breathing...but if someone is actually brain dead, the ventilator does nothing more than keep a heart beating in a person who is actually 'dead'...
If someones brain is completely non-functioning,(no brain wave activity), then that person is dead...the ventilator used to keep their heart beating, will never ever cause them to become 'alive'...
Someone who is truly brain dead(absolutely no brain wave activity, ever), is dead...nothing anyone does will ever make them live again...someone who has minimal brain wave activity, is not dead and should not be called dead...
But once someone is brain dead, harvesting their organs will not make them any more dead...they were already dead...harvesting the organs of someone who still has brain function would be murder...harvesting the organs of someone who is really 'brain dead', would not be murder...
I, too, used to think that logic prevailed in the medical community. Your logic is sound. What is faulty is the belief that your logic is not routinely violated.
I guess they forgot to tell CONDI about TERRI.
Remember Terri told her girlfriend that she was going to go to bed and pretend to be asleep with HINO came home. Does that fit with your scenario?
We know otherwise. They took better care of the popcorn machine on fire than they did when Terri was on fire from lack of fluids.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/15/D8EGT8A80.html
Excerpt: "Howard Simon is executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida."
http://www.prolifeblogs.com/articles/archives/2005/12/schiavo_truth_a.php
Thanks for the link to the great column, floriduh voter. I'm adding it to my bookmarks.
Michael would not want to be seen standing in the way of people trying to determine what really happened to Terri. Michael can't object to a little bit of investigation, if the investigators are trying to find out if his "beloved" Terri was harmed by other humans.
Michael and his cohorts insist he didn't do anything to Terri, so why not start there and ask if anyone might have harmed Terri?
I'm not saying Michael isn't involved. I'm saying that a few "outside of the box" questions might shake up the stalemate.
Nor would I, but this isn't investigation. It's making up stories without an ounce of evidence. This one -- the old "mystery intruder" story that we've all heard a dozen times from the likes of O.J. Simpson -- is painfully lame.
It's also preposterous on the face of it. We are to believe the Mystery Intruder took a healthy young woman out of bed without waking her husband, killed her silently out in the hall, and vanished before her husband -- awakened by the very sound of her fall -- rushed to her side?
Right. Try that one in court and hear the laughter.
You start your story from things Michael has said, but he's the suspect. He's not to be believed. He changed his account every time he testified about it. That is a liar at work.
I realize Michael is a liar.
Where's the harm in asking him questions from a new point of view and watching for his response?
He'll be making public appearances and reporters' questioning the"grieving" husband about his guilt will be considered tacky.
I admit that it would take a brave reporter to ask a "lame" question about the possibility of an intruder.
But, you'll have to admit, it sure is an "attention-getting" question.
Even if it gets mocked, the question gets noticed.
Do you believe Terri's fall woke Michael?
But, Terri wasn't killed, by stabbing, by gunshot or by strangulation. She lived. Perhaps no one intended to kill her, but only intended to keep her quiet.
Perhaps that person "accidentally" suffocated her, but she recovered. Neighbors didn't report Terri shouting for help. Were there any reports of a disturbance that night?
It would seem that one can chose between
1. the story that Terri collapsed orWhich of these options do you chose to believe? Maybe I am missing a third option? I'm open to your input.
2. the story that Terri was quietly injured by someone.
There are ways to suffocate/silence people that leave little evidence
Burking originally referred to killing by closing the nose with two fingers or inserting fingers in the nostrils and then clamping the mouth shut with thumb or elbow, suffocating the victim.
People can be suffocated if they are held in a manner that prevents chest expansion, too.
Alive - after 63 days under rubble (I CAN'T IMAGINE THE HORROR)
8mm
Yet Williams' was still placed high on a pedestal of greatness. People who fought for Terri Schiavo to be taken off of life support fought for Stanley "Tookie" Williams to be kept on it. Williams was treated as the Jesus of the left.
8mm
Change of topic: Dr. Dave Weldon, FL U.S. House of Representatives who is fighting the good fight in Congress is going on tour playing bass. This is a great holiday story:
http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4252235&nav=0Rce
(Weldon's on M. Schiavo's black list)
No, it isn't. It is a puny little fairy story with no relation to known evidence or motive. It won't hold up to examination. It sounds like one more sycophantic reporter handing Schiavo one more untenable alibi.
If you want to grab attention, go for the truth. Ask the questions a real homicide investigator would ask. Probe the shifting alibis that Schiavo tried to use in his testimony, and question him about inconsistencies.
In the Autopsy Report, one gets just the new evidence needed in order to ask Schiavo tough questions about what actually happened. The M.E. confirmed that Terri never had a heart attack. The damage she suffered when she was deprived of oxygen was not global, either. No organs were affected below her head. So, we may safely deduce that Terri didn't "collapse" at all. Something happened to her from the neck up.
A real investigator would certainly want to dig into this. The insurance companies might want to pursue it too because Schiavo's malpractice suit(s) were fraudulent.
The autopsy revealed one other surprising detail that may be the final piece in the puzzle: the damage to Terri's brain was primarily in the front areas fed by the carotid arteries. That gives us the probable cause of her injuries. Somebody put enough pressure on her carotid arteries, for long enough, to leave her all-but lifeless on the floor.
Now as before, there is only one suspect.
No, do you? There is good reason to think she did not fall.
Terri's own plan to feign sleep doesn't jive with her walking around near the bathroom and making a thud in the hall. Michael's words "a thud and it was Terri." Larry King Live transcript.
Remember that woman who wrote all those murder mysteries with the Inspector? She wrote a lot of novels that were made into movies.
I think you may be on to something syriacus.
FYI: The answer may be in Tampa.
Terri told her friend that she was going to pretend to be asleep when he came home. Pretending to be asleep and walking around doesn't make sense. HINO's still lying about many things but maybe not about finding her in the hall if he had help.
2. the story that Terri was quietly injured by someone
Since there was no one else in the apartment, I'll take the liberty of changing 'someone' to Michael Schiavo, Terri's hot-headed husband.
It doesn't take much for a frightened (I'll pretend to be asleep when michael comes home) 5'2" woman to be 'quieted' by a 6'7" man.
How would you like to be a woman in that jail?
This is why I'm against Everett Rice becoming Florida's Attorney General. He was the Sheriff who voted against Terri when he became a non-elected house member after he gave HINO his job earlier this year at the Sheriff's Dept.
Rice is another GOP in with Judge Greed(r).
IF THEY'RE FROM PINELLAS COUNTY, DO NOT VOTE FOR ANYONE FOR A STATE OFFICE. They are members of Florida's medicaid fraud and death care system. In up to their eyeballs.
www.terrisfight.org
Not in the real world. We are, after all, discussing a fairy story here -- your fairy story -- not the facts of the case.
I was scoffing at the notion that some mystery assailant pulled her out of bed and left her for dead on the floor, all without a sound or a fight from Terri, and all without disturbing Schiavo's sleep. The same Michael Schiavo who claimed to be awakened instantly by the sound of Terri falling.
As I said, that's preposterous.
Law enforcement never did a true investigation. If they believed HINO from the get to, they would not have dusted for footprints, etc. A homicide file was opened on Terri that could have been re-classified. It never was.
Michael and his cohorts insist he didn't do anything to Terri, so why not start there and ask if anyone might have harmed Terri?
First - WHO are his cohorts? Where they in the apartment?
Second - if MS didn't even 'go there', someone entering apartment, why are you?
Schiavo Updates & Commentary at bottom of screen. URL worth re-posting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/15/politics/15cnd-program.html?ei=5065&en=80681ada74c04ce9&ex=1135314000&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print
1.The people he worked with at all those restaurants?
2. Do I remember correctly that he allegedly used drugs? IF he did use drugs, he must have obtained them somewhere.
3. His girlfriends and their relatives?
4. His relatives? Interesting that his brother and sister-in-law testified that Terri wanted to die.
Second - if MS didn't even 'go there', someone entering apartment, why are you?
My point, exactly!!!
Michael didn't want any "suggestion" of Terri being a victim when she first collapsed. If he did that, someone might have checked for transient indicators that she was harmed and an investigation might have resulted.
No matter how you slice it, it was best for Michael to pretend Terri collapsed.
Here's a question for you.
I'm too old to have my feelings hurt , so don't hold back any criticisms. :-)
I agree.
Don't feel bad about your scoffing. You haven't hurt my feelings. I'm too old for that :-)
What about these ideas?
You've called Michael a liar. He might have lied about their sleeping together in bed. He might have lied about his being at home when Terri collapsed.
1. Somebody put enough pressure on her carotid arteries, for long enough, to leave her all-but lifeless on the floor.
2. I was scoffing at the notion that some mystery assailant... left her for dead on the floor, all without a sound or a fight from Terri,
Did Terri put up a fight, or not?
1. Somebody put enough pressure on her carotid arteries, for long enough, to leave her all-but lifeless on the floor.
2. I was scoffing at the notion that some mystery assailant... left her for dead on the floor, all without a sound or a fight from Terri,
In your scenario, did Terri put up a fight, or not?
Another argument against the non-existent mystery intruder.
Why do you call it my scenario? What I or anyone else thinks about it is irrelevant. The truth is what it is.
Terri's blood tests showed lactic acidosis, an abnormal blood chemistry caused by violent exertion in the absence of oxygen. One may infer that she fought for a breath of air with everything she had. But it would have been hopeless with a man twice her size on her back, pinning her down.
What about these?
1) Frogs have wings.
2) You could be fooling around with Britney Spears right this minute if you weren't so busy here.
3) The Knicks are going to win the World Series this year.
John Doe arranges for his wife, Jane, to be killed while he is at work. It seems that she might divorce him and he is afraid of what her lawyer will unearth during the discovery phase of divorce proceedings. (What if that mobster learns that John was fooling around with his wife?) John is also the beneficiary of Jane's life insurance policy, and the money will help him settle some debts.
John expects to find Jane dead when he arrives home, but is surprised, when he walks through the slightly opened door, to find she is, unaccountably, still alive. (The "killer" had used a key, but left the door unlocked/open, when he departed, to make it seem that his John's wife had opened the door to an intruder.)
John Doe stays out of Janes' sight while he tries to find a solution. Should he call 911? Should he give Jane CPR? Should he leave Jane alone and hope she dies soon? (How long can he sit there and wait for her to die?) Should he make sure she dies?
What to do? What to do? Time passes while John sits on the sofa, where Jane cannot see him, and tries to piece together a story. He decides against killing her or giving her CPR because doing either of those things might cause someone to question how she had been treated before help (or the medical examiner) arrived.
John finally realizes that too much time has passed for him to say that he came home from work and found Jane on the floor.
So John makes up a story that he was in bed when he was awakened by the sound of his wife "collapsing."
That's the only story that will seem appropriate in the early morning hour when he finally contacts Jane's family... he was home, he was in bed, he heard his barely breathing wife collapse.
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