The Fair Tax Act of 2005 – HR 25/S 25 plain English summary

Americans For Fair Taxation Website ^ | Current | Americans For Fair Taxation

[lewislynn]

You do have a great point about tapping into the "off the books" economy. I would like to see those people have to pay tax as well

Blackbirdsst:

"Don't forget, all retail items already have an enourmous Tax burden built into the price"

And you thought the "off the books economy" didn't pay taxes. As it turns out it's "an enourmous tax burden "....

[USNBandit]

This is making my head hurt.

[BlackbirdSST]

USNBandit You do have a great point about tapping into the "off the books" economy. I would like to see those people have to pay tax as well Blackbirdsst: "Don't forget, all retail items already have an enourmous Tax burden built into the price" And you thought the "off the books economy" didn't pay taxes. As it turns out it's "an enourmous tax burden "....

As you well know I'm sure, the bulk of ILLEGAL's income goes back to Mexico, next to Oil it's Mexico's biggest revenue source. So NO TAX ASSESSED on literally BILLIONS of US Dollars every year. No income Tax, State or Federal being assessed on those wages. So it really only amounts to a mere pittance on the goods they buy to live and survive here.

The WOsD's has seen to it that the big bucks aren't spent on purchase's, without being reported to the IRS and other ABC agency's for investigation. The bulk of that money leaves our shores, where it can be spent freely, except for the small time user of the product. Nice attempt at throwing the straw man out there though, credit where credit is due and all that. Blackbird.

[lewislynn]

As you well know I'm sure, the bulk of ILLEGAL's income goes back to Mexico, next to Oil it's Mexico's biggest revenue source. So NO TAX ASSESSED on literally BILLIONS of US Dollars every year. No income Tax, State or Federal being assessed on those wages. So it really only amounts to a mere pittance on the goods they buy to live and survive here.

So they won't pay tax under a sales tax either...

Other than you're the only one to mention illegals, what's your point?

[ancient_geezer]

I wonder if this would put a damper on the retail economy, especially big ticket items like new automobiles. It would seem to promote investment, but drive down discretionary retail expenditures.

The studies done in the past on this indicate an initial drop on the order of 5-10% in individual consumption as people tend to move toward more investment and savings over spending. That rapidly reverses as real household income grows with the economy as a consequence of enhanced technological productivity and yields from investment returns.

Not a negative from my view of things as we are far too dependant on government for our retirements and becoming more so as were spend ever more of our current family income to the neglect of our futures.

 

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/family_a.htm#Saving

 

Rate of Personal Saving Plunges 100% - to new record low - $985 Billion missing

If families have less inflation-adjusted income, despite mother working, then family personal savings must suffer as a consequence - unless, of course, families reduce their consumption. But, families increased consumption spending and, to cover this, they reduced savings to historic lows and increased household debt to historic highs. Dangerous Trend !!!

The chart at the left shows a 45 year trend of that part of disposable income that has been saved - - called 'personal savings rate'.

Note: prior to 1970 the rate of personal savings was rising smartly - - as were family incomes per the first chart above - despite most families then having but one wage earner while also living without increasing debt ratios (chart below).

Then, family incomes stagnated - - and the saving ratio stopped rising as seen in the left chart - - then started falling rapidly - - plummeting since 1992. As of June 2005, savings were at an all-time record low of zero percent !! $985 Billion in savings missing in 2004 compared to savings ratio of 2 decades ago. (realized capital gains, not calculated in the savings rate, mitigate this chart somewhat if one wishes to call such savings - - but the trend with and without is at all-time record lows).

 

 

It is overtime for a encourage an earlier ethic on self reliance and thrift rather than a the socialist deadend ethic fostered under the income tax regime that will ultimately destroy our economy.

[StraightDave]

I wonder if this would put a damper on the retail economy, especially big ticket items like new automobiles.

As I recall, all the taxes levied against the production of the materials to build the automobile would be eliminated, and the retail price with the National Sales Tax would be about the same as before. Hence, no negative effect due to the retail price. The cumlulative taxes would equate to National Sales Tax.

[USNBandit]

Thanks for the info. I'm sure that you and I agree that more savings and investment by the average person would be good. Maybe not for the short term economy, but definitely for the people doing the savings.

It is very refreshing to have somebody offer an answer to a question instead of just flaming away. Thanks.

[BlackbirdSST]

Other than you're the only one to mention illegals, what's your point?

Because more and more and more and more and more and more of them come in every day, but everyone here knows that doesn't concern you. My point is, it would no longer benefit people like you who hire them. The incentive for people like you to dodge Taxes would no longer exist. It would be out of your hands. HA! They might even expect you to pay them the same as an American would. Hell, you might as well hire an American. I know that sends chills up your (noodle) spine. Other than you attempting to argue in favor of them, what's your point? Would you be willing to put forth the argument that they are not part of the underground economy? Surely you're not that foolish? Blackbird.

[balrog666]

Rate of Personal Saving Plunges 100% - to new record low - $985 Billion missing

What? You mean people aren't passively allowing inflation to eat up their savings? Who'd a thunk it?

[FreeKeys]

best places to keep up with the FairTax are: Americans for Fair Taxation website http://www.fairtax.org or the Neal Boortz website http://boortz.com/.

Also check out: John Linder's FairTax updates,
Neal Boortz's FairTax updates
and
Find all 35 ways to listen to BOORtz over the web --
including evenings and weekends -- HERE:
http://FreedomKeys.com/boortzcast.htm

[ancient_geezer]

You mean people aren't passively allowing inflation to eat up their savings? Who'd a thunk it?

Who'd a thunk it Indeed. Tax labor and you get less production and more inflation. Tax consumption reducing the propensity to spend; promote savings and investment to reverse the trend.

 

"[T]he Equity of Imposition, consisteth rather in the Equality of that which is consumed, than of the riches of the persons that consume the same. For what reason is there, that he which laboureth much, and sparing the fruits of his labor, consumeth little, should be more charged, than he that living idlely, getteth little, and spendeth all he gets; seeing the one hath no more protection from the Common-wealth, than the other? "
--- Thomas Hobbes

Federalist #21:

"Imposts, excises, and, in general, all duties upon articles of consumption, may be compared to a fluid, which will, in time, find its level with the means of paying them. The amount to be contributed by each citizen will in a degree be at his own option, and can be regulated by an attention to his resources. The rich may be extravagant, the poor can be frugal; and private oppression may always be avoided by a judicious selection of objects proper for such impositions. "

"It is a signal advantage of taxes on articles of consumption that they contain in their own nature a security against excess.

They prescribe their own limit, which cannot be exceeded without defeating the end proposed - that is, an extension of the revenue."

[TMSuchman]

Not me! I am getting ready for civilazation to fall again.
As a amature student of history all the great civilations last aprox. 200-500 years or so. We are right in the middle of this time frame. No matter how you slice it we are rotting from the inside out & getting ready to taken over by a external force.

So what can we do about this;

gather food at least a 1 year supply, get a good water source, farming supplies to grow your own in lean times, gold,silver,LEAD,whisky,beer, parts for ANY and ALL equipment that you may have.

[Your Nightmare]

"A 23-percent (of the tax-inclusive sales price) sales tax"

So much for the "plain English."

[Always Right]

The $5900 prebate will be about a $500,000,000,000 entitlement that costs taxpayers every year. That means the fairtax not only replaces the current system, but is actually a tax increase that has to cover this new entitlement. It is not revenue neutral, it is actually a big tax increase.

[WhiteGuy]

Thanks for the thread.

Vote only for candidates supporting this bill!

[lewislynn]

"A 23-percent (of the tax-inclusive sales price) sales tax"

So much for the "plain English."

Not only that, they were careful to not quote the language of the bill..."23% of the gross payment"... The word "price" isn't mentioned in the bill regarding what is taxed.

[phil_will1]

"Stick a fork in it; it's dead."

LOL I think the expression is "Stick a fork in it; it's done."

For the benefit of those new to these threads, we FairTaxers are used to seeing these wishful assertions by the SQLs that even they don't believe. You can tell they don't believe them, because they continue to attack and distort the FairTax on these threads. If they really believed the FairTax was dead, they would have moved on by now. On this brief thread alone, you can see Your Nightmare, Always Right, LewisLynn, balrog666 and the other SQL standard bearers pounding away, searching for the ever elusive "achilles heel" of the FairTax.

[Willie Green]

It appears that there is some confusion on exactly what the FairTax is.

Thanks, but there's no confusion on my part.
The misnamed "FairTax" is a cynical fraud...
A red-herring "reform" proposal intended to sidetrack and derail legitimate tax reform initiatives.

[pigdog]

The point, Looey, as you well know, is NOT the illegal income which goes back to Mexico, but the illegal income that the worker spends here for taxable retail purchases thereby generating far more tax revenue from that income than under the present tax system.

It gives a clear advantage to the FairTax.

[pigdog]

Sorry you can't understand plain English Nightie - but not surprised.