The Fair Tax Act of 2005 – HR 25/S 25 plain English summary

Americans For Fair Taxation Website ^ | Current | Americans For Fair Taxation

[pigdog]

Sorry but you're wrong. the FairTax IS revenue neutral as has been shown repeatedly. You just wish to not accept that since it destroys your "anti" arguments.

The prebate cost is covered as part of that revenue neutral calculation. You can look it up in any of several different spots - but of course you won't bother.

[Always Right]

The prebate cost is covered as part of that revenue neutral calculation.

Bingo. The tax rate had to be raise 3-4 percent to raise the extra money needed to pay for the prebate. It is revenue neutral, but only after the costs of the prebate are figured in. Therefore several hundred Billion EXTRA will have to be raised to payout the prebate so the fair tax ends up being revenue neutral. I know this will take at least 1000 posts to you before you actually get it. Otherwise you would be a few hundred billion dollars short of being revenue neutral. You have to pay for this entitlement somewhere.

[pigdog]

You are nothing more than a pathetic, gross liar, willing to distort or misstate anything to thy to make the FairTax look like something it is not. Not only does the word "price" appear in the bill which we'll see later, but the phrase you quote "... 23% of the gross payment ..." NEVER appears in the bill at all. As for "price" which you erroneously claim does not appear, we find the very pertinent information:

"`SEC. 510. TAX TO BE SEPARATELY STATED AND CHARGED.

`(a) In General- For each purchase of taxable property or services for which a tax is imposed by section 101, the seller shall charge the tax imposed by section 101 separately from the purchase. For purchase of taxable property or services for which a tax is imposed by section 101, the seller shall provide to the purchaser a receipt for each transaction that includes--

`(1) the property or services price exclusive of tax;

`(2) the amount of tax paid;

`(3) the property or service price inclusive of tax;

`(4) the tax rate (the amount of tax paid (per paragraph (2)) divided by the property or service price inclusive of tax (per paragraph (3));

`(5) the date that the good or service was sold;

`(6) the name of the vendor; and

`(7) the vendor registration number."

Since this a federal tax bill and the federal government does not control, legislate, or impose state taxes on states (and each state differs in what it does on that regard), there is no mention of state sales tax. Rightfully so. That would merely become another line on the report (if the state so decided) but it would not be taxed by the FairTax.

[lewislynn]

The prebate cost is covered as part of that revenue neutral calculation.

----

Bingo. The tax rate had to be raise 3-4 percent to raise the extra money needed to pay for the prebate.

The rate had to be raised 3-4 percentage points, which is a 15 to 21 percent TAX INCREASE over what the fairtax claims would be needed for "revenue neutral".

[Always Right]

The rate had to be raised 3-4 percentage points, which is a 15 to 21 percent TAX INCREASE over what the fairtax claims would be needed for "revenue neutral".

Yep, if you consider the prebate to be an entitlement program that it is, then your only conclusion would be that this is a tax increase. Of course they will spin differently.

[lewislynn]

Go here where in their own example families have more "spendable income" than gross income (if spending more than your gross is possible)...

Having more to spend than you earn better describes an entitlement than it does a rebate.

[pigdog]

Hardly an "entitlement" which is "... a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group ..." unless you'd like to designate all taxpayers as that group.

But the FairTax is revenue neutral (including the prebate) at 23%. In fact if the bill passed right now it would be revenue neutral at something like 19-20% rather than 23%. A plan that will so strongly boost the US economy far beyond where it now is can hardly be considered a "tax increase" even in your warped terminology.

[pigdog]

Looey, there are lots of ways to have more spending than income - even under the present system. You're pretty dim-witted if you can't think of several. And none having to do with the prebate.

[Always Right]

But the FairTax is revenue neutral (including the prebate) at 23%.

After your huge entitlement it is revenue neutral. Certainly it will probably give the government the $2 Trillion that it currently spends, but it will have to raise about $2.3 Trillion so it nets $2 Trillion. Social Security is an entitlement eventhough all taxpayers who have paid into over their lives are qualified. Everyone with a Social Security number is entitled to the fairtax prebate. It is certainly not a refund because there is no requirement that they pay a dime in taxes.

[pigdog]

So by your definition all taxpayers form an entitlement group due to the FairTax prebate??? Interesting.

Do you really believe your own comment that the prebate is "... not a refund because there is no requirement that they pay a dime in taxes ..."? You really think that people would receive the refund and consume zero??

Certainly that's possible but do you believe that will happen very often with more than a few die hard SWL fanciers - like you? You'll be completely cut off from FR threads (which would be a shame as your posts are so "enlivening"). True, you won't spend a single cent and pay any tax but I hope your farming and cave living skills are better than your elucidative skills.

[Always Right]

Do you really believe your own comment that the prebate is "... not a refund because there is no requirement that they pay a dime in taxes ..."? You really think that people would receive the refund and consume zero??

That has been a fairytax arguement used on many occassions. Fairytaxers often claim that people paying sales taxes would be a choice.

[pigdog]

Actually it IS a choice. Perhaps not for you but for mos people. Check with your wife to see if she chooses things when she shops ...

[Alice au Wonderland]

Would you please add me to your ping list?

I cannot, at this point contribute anything intelligent to this thread, but I would like to stay informed.

{I have both The Fair Tax book and The Flat Tax book, and a coin toss has determined that I'm reading the "Flat" book first. I might have something intelligent to offer by Christmas! :)}

Thank you,

Alice

[ancient_geezer]

You are now on the FairTax taxreform pinger. Welcome aboard.

[Alice au Wonderland]

Thank you!

[Mikey]

[Mikey]

[Dead Corpse]

Boy... that didn't take long. Looks like the Pro-IRS folks have already swooped in and crapped all over everything.

Can't they come up with anything new? It's always the same stuff over and over again. The same debate on thread after thread. Their same mischaracterizations of the NRST followed by the exact same rebuttals. Bunch of trolls IMO.

THe NRST isn't perfect. Yes, it still funds the same Federal leviathan. But it is a HELL of a lot better than the current system and it WILL stimulate more domestic investment and industry.

[pigdog]

In fact, I think the opposite would be true - the FairTax would help bring about an economic revolution in the economy that hasn't been seen in our lifetimes. You'd probably find it informative to check the FairTax website.

There's lots of helpful information there on many, many different topics. Check the FAqs and rebuttals for example.