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U.S. Plans to Leave its Equipment with the Iraqi Army
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Posted on 11/09/2005 4:49:02 PM PST by jmc1969

The U.S. military plans to leave thousands of trucks and combat vehicles for the Iraq Army.

Officials said the Defense Department has approved a plan in which the U.S. military would not withdraw from Iraq together with much of the equipment deployed in that country since 2003. Instead, the U.S. Army and Marine Corps would transfer the vehicles and weaponry to the Iraq Army.

U.S. commanders and their Iraqi counterparts have been discussing the transfer of U.S.-origin weaponry and vehicles, officials said. They said the transfer to the Iraq Army would take place in stages.

"We have discussed what our ability will be in the long run to leave behind some additional equipment for them over time, so that they have the same capabilities that we do, or very nearly," Maj. Gen. William Webster, commander of Multinational Division, Baghdad, said.

(Excerpt) Read more at menewsline.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: equipment; iraq; iraqiarmy; oif
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To: Treader
No kidding... that is your subscribed thought?

I'm sure it's a minority, but we've even seen it at this forum. The attitude is to just annex whatever land is desireable and defend it forever through necessary means.

41 posted on 11/10/2005 5:47:46 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: jmc1969
If anyone subscribes to this service i would very much like to see the full text of this article. From the excerpt it appears the writer has throughly garbled three specific issues (1) Theater Stay Behind Equipment (SBE) which is a pool of equipment being stripped out of departing units to be maintained and reissued to future rotations. The goal among others to reduce transportation costs (2) Army Prepositioned Stocks (APS) which are maintained at strategic locations and afloat around the world. The APS for the Middle East was pretty well used during Operation Iraqi Freedom and is only now beginning to be reconstituted at several locations in the Persian Gulf area, and (3) equipping the New Iraqi Army. This effort will now encompass some quantities of US tactical vehicles and other equipment. The original scheme of having the Iraqi Army be a lightly armed semi constabulary organization has been discarded due to the size and persistence of the terrorist war and the perceived designs of Iran on Iraq. Some heavy equipment is coming from NATO members contributions, these include former Soviet tanks, artillery and other tracked and wheeled vehicles. All three of these programs are complex, multifaceted, and will be implemented over several years.

The desired endstate is a US force in Iraq sufficient to support Iraqi forces in grinding down the insurgency, US materiel reserves ready for units from the states to fall in on in the event of any major rapid deployment being required, and an Iraqi army capable of taking over eventually all internal Iraqi security missions.
None of these things mean a hasty scuttle featuring dumping large quantities of materiel on the Iraqis and fleeing as the tone of this excerpt seems to indicate.
42 posted on 11/10/2005 6:50:07 AM PST by robowombat
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To: RobbyS

"What's the matter? Don't want to pay for the war?"

I seem to remember the idea being bandied about..."We can use the Iraqi oil revenues to finance the war..."


Wishful thinking.

The taxpayers are subsidizing the oil companies one more time


43 posted on 11/10/2005 7:22:11 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: taxed2death

Yeah, the big bad oil companies, on whom you depend to provide cheap fuel for gas-guzzling trucks. Guess we are also subsidizing American car-makers who can't bring themselves to build anything else. You will notice that GM is close to closing show because 30 years of experience has taught them nothing. And, oh yes, the building contractors as will continue to pave over America in a futuile effort to provide enough roads for the three- four and fives cars in our driveways. All subsidized by the tax-payer.


44 posted on 11/10/2005 9:01:39 AM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS

Nice rant...but it's a waste of time.


Ask yourself if Saddam's Iraq just exported walnuts and not oil...would we be there?

I thought not.

I don't think oil companies are inherently "bad"...

You still can not argue that our military (paid for by US tax dollars) are not the protectors of the oil companies.


45 posted on 11/10/2005 10:32:46 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: taxed2death
Ask yourself if Saddam's Iraq just exported walnuts and not oil...would we be there? Ask yourself if Saddam's Iraq had had full control of its oil supply would he not have done what Iran is attempting to do? Saddam fully realized the value of oil, which is why he invaded Kuwait. Even shackled by the embargo, he was able to dangle enough carrots before the West to undercut the embargo and strengthend his hold of the country. You are blaming the oil companies for a hard fact: You need oi and the oil is in places like Iraq and Iran.
46 posted on 11/10/2005 10:51:54 AM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS

You have a strange fixation with "blame". I am not blaming anyone...or any company. I merely stated that the US taxpayer subsidizes the oil companies.


47 posted on 11/10/2005 12:15:33 PM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: taxed2death

Of course they subsidize the oil companies, just as they subsidize most of American business and always have. It started with Alex Hamilton's funding of the national debt. Henry Clay's American system was built on the principle of subsidy. The navy exists to protect American traders and the main business of the state department is American business. The interstate highways system is a subsidy for commerce carriers just as once Congress gace huge tracts of public lands to subsidize the railroads. Capitalism has always been a partnership of government and p[rivate companies, with the wise government being smart enough not to squeeze the gold goose too hard. I agree with you that government is bloated, and so is the management of private companies and so is the average customer. Adam Smith recognized that human beings are greedy and that the market mechanism should be allowed to reward those who are ambitious and to punish both the timid and the greedy. But you can't have a market without a policeman and you can't have a market without middlemen. It is up to the consumer to pay the salary of the former and to pay the commission of the latter. Sometimes each will get more than he deserve, but politics will reduce the cut of the former and the market will punish the latter.


48 posted on 11/10/2005 12:37:15 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Xenophon450

XM8 is cancelled.


49 posted on 11/10/2005 12:42:12 PM PST by rattrap
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To: RobbyS

Good post,
I agree with 99% of it.....with the exception of the following"

"It is up to the consumer to pay the salary of the former and to pay the commission of the latter."

Since (income) taxation is not voluntary, I would prefer to get a tax credit for the percentage of the military budget needed to keep the oil lines open. The fair way to do it would be for the oil companies to hire private armies. This would shift the tax liability of the consumer (income tax)...and give the consumer the CHOICE of paying 6 or 8 dollars extra tax on his / her gasoline. It's all about choices. I know, I know...it's a nutty idea... but it would bring to the forefront the REAL cost of oil.


50 posted on 11/10/2005 12:58:08 PM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: taxed2death

Hard to factor out the cost of keeping the oil supply flowing. What infuriates me is the ability of "moderates' to block drilling in the Arctic. What I cannot understand is why the Senator from Alaska is opposed to drilling in what she surely knows is a huge frozen mudflat. Aren't the oil companies offering her enough kickback?


51 posted on 11/10/2005 1:06:59 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: buwaya
They get worn out quick in Iraq apparently. The Iraqis will have serious maintenance problems.

We have serious maintenance problems with them there. As units (large units) have rotated back and forth, they have drug most of their equipment with them. Local papers here have shown rows and rows of Bradley Fighting Vehicles on the dock at Beaumont, in preparation for the now ongoing deployment of the 4th Infantry Division (The guys who got Saddam!) for their second deployment to Iraq since 2003.

52 posted on 11/10/2005 3:35:09 PM PST by El Gato
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To: Terpfen
I hope this is a signal that new vehicles and equipment are being developed and plan to be deployed by the time most of the troops are gone from Iraq.

Not really, the only new thing coming down the pike are various versions of the Stryker and a farther along the line, the Future Combat System. Both of those are in many ways inferior to the Bradleys and Abrams they will replace. Oh their electronics are better, and they are much lighter, but their armor, off road mobility, and their firepower is the same or generally less. For example the Stryker Mobile Gun Sytem will have the 105mm gun of the M1 not the 120 mm smoothbore of the M1A1. The 105 is out ranged by many threat weapons systems, such as the main guns of the Chinese and Russian main battle tanks. Then their is the little problem of the Stryker flipping over if the gun is fired other than nearly directly aft or forward.

53 posted on 11/10/2005 3:40:12 PM PST by El Gato
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To: RouxStir

It's cheaper to leave the stuff there, than ship it back. Lots of logistics involved.


54 posted on 11/10/2005 3:42:02 PM PST by kabar
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To: jmc1969
The real problem is how they are going to fix this stuff when it wears out.

Same way we do, send it to a Depot. In their case the Depot might be in Egypt, which IIRC produces Abrams tanks and other US equipment. They'll probably have to use contractor maintenance for a while until they can get some maintenance troops trained, which can take longer than training Americans because of the lower quality enlistees, from the standpoint of general educational level and prior technical knowledge.

55 posted on 11/10/2005 3:43:47 PM PST by El Gato
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To: El Gato

So what's with all the reports of the troops loving the Stryker?


56 posted on 11/10/2005 3:52:15 PM PST by Terpfen (Libby should hire Phoenix Wright.)
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To: Dog Gone

Annex? lol...I could almost bet- that your theory is a mutation of loathing for Abraham's children.


57 posted on 11/10/2005 11:12:54 PM PST by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: Treader

You'd bet wrong, then.


58 posted on 11/11/2005 6:21:14 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone

lol...a "could almost bet" is almost never a sure thing, don't ya know? By the by, your profile gave me a good grin- thanks.


59 posted on 11/11/2005 9:29:06 PM PST by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: RobbyS

That's not paying for the war; that's a free giveaway. If they can pay for it, why should we?


60 posted on 11/14/2005 5:47:17 PM PST by JewishRighter
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