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A column about Kansas Science Standards
EducationNews.org ^ | November 14, 2005 | State Board Chairman Steve Abrams, DVM

Posted on 11/14/2005 8:06:26 AM PST by Exigence

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To: b_sharp; Ichneumon; longshadow; CarolinaGuitarman; Thatcherite; MineralMan; Coyoteman; js1138; ...
At last, one link for both closing arguments in the Dover trial. It's a pdf file, and it's 95 pages long. I can't make a thread out of a pdf file, but here's the link:
Afternoon session, 04 November 2005.
201 posted on 11/15/2005 6:39:04 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Expect no response if you're a troll, lunatic, retard, or incurable ignoramus.)
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To: All
And (it's a big day for breaking news) the eBay auction for the Flying Spaghetti Monster has ended. View the results:
Handmade Flying Spaghetti Monster Plush FSM, Item number 6011889705.
202 posted on 11/15/2005 6:44:27 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Expect no response if you're a troll, lunatic, retard, or incurable ignoramus.)
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To: RunningWolf
Very fantastic yes, but see my analogy?

I do see the analogy, but I don't think it's correct. I do understand your skepticism, but it is unwarranted in this case - we have a lot more information pertaining to evolution than you seem to believe - the conclusion is not the wild extrapolation that you seem to think it is. (Though I'll admit that this isn't always readily apparent to the layperson - it took quite a bit of reading on my part to become convinced that it is a solid theory.)

BTW Newton's Laws do technically contradict Einstein's; the most accurate way to put it is that Einstein's theory of gravity reduces to Newton's in the non-relativistic limit. My point was that Newton's Laws are still perfectly valid in all but the most extreme or sensitive circumstances.

203 posted on 11/15/2005 6:54:27 AM PST by Quark2005 (Science aims to elucidate. Pseudoscience aims to obfuscate.)
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To: MHalblaub
ii. A fossil record that shows sudden bursts of increased complexity (the Cambrian Explosion), long periods of stasis and the absence of abundant transitional forms rather than steady gradual increases in complexity...

Misapplication of the Cambrian explosion. Typical. People forget that this "sudden explosion" spans a time period of 10 million years in the fossil record, it is only an "explosion" in the relative sense, and only an "explosion" in the realm of macroscopic organisms, which make up only a tiny realm of genetic lineages. Additionally, many hypotheses about the origin of triploblastic organisms have been given confirmation via analysis and transplantation of proteins (Zimmer's book on Evolution gives an excellent description of this.) Our (albeit limited) knowledge of the Cambrian explosion hardly detracts from the validity of evolution.

204 posted on 11/15/2005 7:13:47 AM PST by Quark2005 (Science aims to elucidate. Pseudoscience aims to obfuscate.)
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To: PatrickHenry
I can't make a thread out of a pdf file...

Hah! I did that years ago.

205 posted on 11/15/2005 7:18:08 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Exigence
Evolutionists do not want students to know about or in any way to think about scientific criticisms of evolution.

Actually they do. It's just that you can't get enough time in school to teach it.

Instead Kansas now wants to teach kids about space aliens instead of evolution. Just what a technological society needs.

206 posted on 11/15/2005 7:28:03 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: mlc9852
I would never vote for a candidate that didn't support introducing ID.

You stated you don't believe in common descent - why would you support ID, then?

207 posted on 11/15/2005 7:32:40 AM PST by Quark2005 (Science aims to elucidate. Pseudoscience aims to obfuscate.)
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To: WildTurkey

Not a Christian Soldier of God:

John 15:26 (NIV) "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of TRUTH who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

In fairness, I believe our well-intentioned poster is being misled by good intentions, the lack of a technical background, and some impressive technical jargon from a VERY dishonest man.

We have corresponded by freepmail, and I do not believe him to be a liar.


208 posted on 11/15/2005 7:33:14 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: Quark2005

I don't care so much about ID since no one seems to know what that actually means. I'll be happy to vote for anyone who says God is the creator of all life.


209 posted on 11/15/2005 7:35:10 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: PatrickHenry

"8. Powered flight is not mentioned in the Bible."

Well, except for Elijah(sp? -- there's two and get the spellings mixed up) episode with the Chariot of Fire.


210 posted on 11/15/2005 7:36:40 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: VadeRetro

Maybe he lives underground.


211 posted on 11/15/2005 7:40:52 AM PST by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: mlc9852

So a theistic evolutionist (like CS Lewis was purported to be) is OK?

Basically -- God created the universe, God created the rules of nature (which include evolution), and He intentionall set it all up so that man would be created in His image, a bit like a baker who bakes a cake.


212 posted on 11/15/2005 7:41:08 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: mlc9852
I don't care so much about ID since no one seems to know what that actually means.

Not much of a basis for a science curriculum, is it?

I'll be happy to vote for anyone who says God is the creator of all life.

I believe that God is the Creator of all life. I also acknowledge that the facts and data strongly support evolution & common descent, and that you can't have complete and comprehensive biology curriculum without it. I know I am not alone in this perspective.

213 posted on 11/15/2005 7:41:54 AM PST by Quark2005 (Science aims to elucidate. Pseudoscience aims to obfuscate.)
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To: MeanWestTexan
Would be created in His image? So God didn't actually create humans in his image? He just created ape-like creatures and sat back and waited? Well, we need to rip Genesis out of the Bible. And how about the resurrection of Jesus? Science can't explain it, so let's take that out also.
214 posted on 11/15/2005 7:42:54 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: Quark2005

And I believe God created humans and animals and plants "after their own kind". And people are free to believe what they wish. Don't you find it strange that after generations being taught the TOE, the majority still aren't buying it? Wonder why?


215 posted on 11/15/2005 7:44:46 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852
Don't you find it strange that after generations being taught the TOE, the majority still aren't buying it? Wonder why?

Because a facile belief in mythology is intellectually easier than the hard work of understanding a fairly complex and challenging field of science, especially when that field of science makes them feel somehow less divinely exalted among the rest of the species?

216 posted on 11/15/2005 7:48:49 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: mlc9852

I guess a baker doesn't bake a cake then, the oven does.


217 posted on 11/15/2005 7:49:12 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: RogueIsland

So you equate humans with mice?


218 posted on 11/15/2005 7:54:10 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: MeanWestTexan

What does a baker have to do with God? Oh, I get it. God created the baker!


219 posted on 11/15/2005 7:55:24 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852
And people are free to believe what they wish.

But they are not free to dictate the results of science research.

Don't you find it strange that after generations being taught the TOE, the majority still aren't buying it? Wonder why?

The majority of Americans do accept common descent, they just don't accept an atheistic explanation of it. Either way, the fact that so many Americans don't is just a sad testament to the sorry state of science education in this country. Keep in mind also that roughly half of people think that lasers work by focusing sound waves, that electrons are smaller than atoms, and that antibiotics can kill viruses, according to a 2004 NSF survey. One quarter of people didn't know that the Earth orbits the sun. To answer your question, the public doesn't completely buy the theory because they don't understand it.

I honestly don't understand your adamant rejection of evolution, given that you have stated on these threads that you reject the less than 10,000 year-old earth that a literal reading of the Bible requires.

220 posted on 11/15/2005 8:00:12 AM PST by Quark2005 (Science aims to elucidate. Pseudoscience aims to obfuscate.)
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