Defense Attorney's Closing Argument in Dover Evolution Trial

National Center for Science Education ^ | 16 November 2005 | Patrick Gillen, Esq.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"In the late 60s, Darwinian evolution based textbook for 9th Grade biology, said life arose from a 'primordial soup' and that the environmental conditions, like lightening etc, combined with whatever in the oceans formed the ingrediantd for the origin of life. Even remember seeing a film strip on the subject."

Was the textbook only about evolution or did it cover all sorts of theories in biology? Like maybe...ABIOGENESIS??? Isn't it possible that the book dealt with theories that weren't evolution? The biology textbook I had in High School had a little chapter at the end that dealt with theories about origins; origins of life (abiogenesis) and origins of species (evolution). They were considered separately, as was proper.

[connectthedots]

Those who accept the notion of universal common descent claim that all life forms have descended for single cell organisms. Those single cell organisms had to have had some origin. That origin, at least as hypothesized back then was what people would call abiogenesis today.

[taxesareforever]

What is the Theory of Evolution? Common usage of the word "evolution" is the idea that living things in our world have come into being through unguided naturalistic processes starting from a primeval mass of subatomic particles and radiation, over approximately 20 billion years.

Sounds to me like evolution is trying to explain a beginning here. I say trying because it is just a guess. Can't prove it by science anymore than science can prove that man has evolved from "primeval mass of subatomic particles and radiation". I thought radiation is known to kill not grow.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Those single cell organisms had to have had some origin. That origin, at least as hypothesized back then was what people would call abiogenesis today."

And it never was a part of the ToE.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

What is this?

"What is the Theory of Evolution? Common usage of the word "evolution" is the idea that living things in our world have come into being through unguided naturalistic processes starting from a primeval mass of subatomic particles and radiation, over approximately 20 billion years."

I never said this, yet you made it look like it was my quote.
I knew you were dishonest when you promoted slavery on an earlier thread then denied it, but I didn't realize you made things up and tried to pass them off as the creation of someone you were debating. You are a shameless liar.

[dread78645]

I thought radiation is known to kill not grow.

Disconnect your computer, radio, and TV. Stay out of the sun. Remove the lava rocks from your garden and aquariums.

All sources of "radiation".

[taxesareforever]

Go stand next to an irradiated fuel cell and tell me if you will grow or die. Naw, forget it. You wouldn't be able to tell me.

[taxesareforever]

Sorry if I made it look like your quote. I didn't mean it that way. However this is a stated definition of evolution and it appears that it has hit a hard spot with you since it upset you so bad that you couldn't respond to it.

[taxesareforever]

I knew you were dishonest when you promoted slavery on an earlier thread

Tell me, was slavery a product of evolution?

[PatrickHenry]

For those who missed in in a thread last week, here's the closing argument of the plaintiffs, from a handy page posted by Talk.Origins, which links all the transcripts:

Trial transcript: Day 21 (November 4), PM Session, Part 2 (Plaintiff's closing).

[PatrickHenry]

Thanks to recent suggestions, the Evolution Troll's Toolkit has been updated to add yet another row to the grid. There are two available cells, waiting for classic creationist arguments. With 13 rows, it seems appropriate to freeze the size, so anything that gets in after the last two open items will have to replace something that's already in the grid. Survival of the fittest.

[BMCDA]

It's hard to argue any of the above things don't have the primary effect of advancing religion.

Actually the argument is that they indeed do not advance religion since it's only Ceremonial Deism which is not unconstitutional.

[WildHorseCrash]

Actually the argument is that they indeed do not advance religion since it's only Ceremonial Deism which is not unconstitutional.

Which is a bunch of BS, IMHO. It's a way of violating the First Amendment, but pretending it doesn't because the politicians (be they Legislators or Judges) don't want to upset the religious nutballs who'll howl and scream...

[js1138]

That is really no different than any other extended trial. all the witnesses had been deposed and everyone knew in advance pretty much what the testimony would be.

Except when one side commits perjury during deposition and gets called on it at the trial.

[anguish]

You're overlooking the contribution to Western Civilization made by the invention of the chastity belt.

The invention of the skeleton key?

[js1138]

After all, Bill Gates is a college drop out. He didn't make it past his first year of college.

Add this to your list of easily researched falsehoods.

[anguish]

... or perhaps picklock is a better term. More coffee needed.

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

"What other kind of "supernatural causation" do they have in mind?"

Well, if you're a Born-Again Cargo-Cultist, there's the possibility that the Universe fell out of the cargo hold of The Great C-47...

[js1138]

Can any of you creationists show me ONE breakthrough theory in science that has EVER been successful, that relied on the existence of the supernatural???

These enjoyed great commercial success.

[js1138]

If a state gives its employees a day off for Christmas, that would technically be a problem under Lemon

More and more employers are offering a monthly day off, the exact date to be decided by the employee. Purely national hollidays like the Fourth and Thanksgiving are the exception.