Quisling: a synonym for traitor, someone who collaborates with the invaders of his country.
Posted on 11/20/2005 6:23:27 AM PST by John Jorsett
For many, it's the American dream: owning a home. With the recent spike in housing costs, it's become more difficult for many Valley families to qualify for a home loan. But some local banks are giving out loans, and they don't even require a social security number.
David seems like your typical first-time homeowner. The house is small, money's tight. But his family is happy. "It was our dream." he said. "So it was like our dream became true, finally."
But getting a loan from the bank almost didn't happen. An employee from the bank called and said it seemed they had a problem.
The problem was David's social security number ... it's a fake.
He is undocumented, an illegal immigrant. David thought it was a dead end, but not in California. It's among a few states where banks are offering mortgages to people who they know are illegal.
"He gave us good news, saying, 'oh, you have good credit, you've been good on your payments. Sure, we can help you out!,'" he recalls.
David got a 30-year, $135,000 loan. He pays $950 a month for his house in the South Valley.
The Valley non-profit group Acorn is helping people like David. They set him up with Citibank in Fresno, where a social security number is not required.
Instead, it asks for an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, or I-TIN. It proves they pay taxes to the IRS. Applicants also have to have a bank account, proof of US residency for two years, and two years of credit references.
"The banks wanna get bigger, wanna give mortgages to people and they see this is a tremendous money making opportunity," says Diana Hull, an illegal immigrant opponent.
Hull is the president of a group called Californians For Population Stabilization, based in Santa Barbara. Hull says the exact numbers are tough to gauge, but one estimate identifies 250,000 undocumented immigrants in the US who make enough money to be eligible for a home loan.
That equals $60 billion in potential mortgages.
But Hull says the big business is not just a bad idea ... she insists it's also against the law. "There is a law against aiding and abetting illegal aliens to continue to live in the United States. Issuing a mortgage to an illegal alien is helping him establish himself and remain the United States, which is clearly illegal. It's a felony," she says.
Hall says the problem goes all the way to the top, and she pins much of the blame on the largest of government institutions, like the FDIC, the IRS and the Social Security Administration.
For David, the immigration debate is not nearly so complicated. He came to California at the age of 13 on a passport, but he never went back to Mexico. Instead, he went to high school, learned English, and eventually got a job as an electrician.
David says he still thinks about the possibility of getting caught and being deported, but he says it's all worth the risk.
When asked how he feels when he hears a lot of people wish he were never able to do this, he says, "I work hard like any other citizen and I try to live just like a normal citizen. And I have everything, I think I still have my rights."
And he says that includes the right to own a piece of the American dream.
Despite the accusations that what they're doing is illegal, Citigroup and Acorn stand by the program.
Acorn issued a statement saying everything about their program is legal. They say in the United States, it is perfectly legal for non-citizens to own property.
When asked about its opinion on whether the program is indeed legal, or unlawfully entices illegal immigrants to stay, the U.S. Attorney's office refused an answer.
This is called artificially propping up the housing market. 1 out of 5 residents of the Dallas-Ft. Worth metroplex are immigrants. Most are illegals. If they didn't continue flooding the area, the housing market would collapse.
Moral of the story.....CRIME DOES PAY!
I don't know who Acorn is; but I have heard Citigroup has some problems regarding honesty.
Sweet.............and I can't finance a stick of Juicy Fruit right now..........
No, this shows just how bad a judge of character of government is.
This guy comes here, works hard, is responsible with his money, pays his bills on time, yet still doesn't get documented while some other character, made legal, is living for free in Federal subsidized housing because he was made a citizen.
Our government should be doing everything it can to get the responsible guy to stay legally while avoiding granting citizenship to the leaches.
Why should someone that works hard and can buy a house still feel like it's a problem to get naturalized? That makes me think the problem is with the government and not him.
I suppose it's kind of like speed limits. Sure, exceeding the limit is breaking the law, but most people do it because the government is so poor at setting reasonable limits.
In this case our government handles naturalization so poorly that otherwise hardworking, responsible people, still don't feel like going through the process.
No. This is an example of the private sector being a more efficient and better judge of character than the government.
Hope her tax returns are in order. She's just begging for an audit.
Overwhelmed by debt? Why pay your bills? Why go through bankruptcy? Why lose your home? Simply dye your hair black, learn Spanish, say "My name Jose Jimenez", get a Matricula Consular, and wipe your credit slate clean! Even buy your own house at a foreclosure auction!
You miss the point.
The point should be that hard work and responsibility with money are rewarded.
The point is that our immigration system is so screwed up that a mostly good man still feels he has to hide from the government.
The point isn't the crime pays. Hard work pays. Banks don't often lend large sums of money to criminals.
Nope. Mortgage industry is propped up by the government. Like the S&L bailout, they know that the government won't let the house of cards collapse despite shaky lending practices. That is why we're seeing equity loans that are up to 125% of equity based on shoddy appraisals of the real estate's value. Appraisals are designed these days to make more loans as opposed to securing the loans with real equity.
Even with the influx of immigrants (and Hurricana Katrina evacuees), the market is still having a tough time staying at inflated levels. Fort Worth foreclosures last month exceeded for the first time the record set back in the late '80s during the S&L bust.
YOU MISSSED My point
see post 10
I will cross Citbank off my stock watch investment list.
Which banks will lend to illegal's?
Clearly they do. What part of the simple term "illegal immigrant" do you not understand? This guy is, by definition, a criminal by having broken our immigration laws.
So - who gets stuck holding the tab when the illegals decide it's time to disappear/get deported (don't hold your breath) or something else happens?
So - there are consumers who have a hard time getting a mortgage - and they are US Citizens, who pay taxes, contribute to society, etc. Yet illegals are getting an express ride through the mortgage process?
Mexico won't have to have a military takeover of the SW US, they can just buy it, with mortgage money put up by US banks...
Wow - the story actually documents an illegal in the US, documents that he committed fraud in trying to obtain a loan with a fake SS#, and now is happily living in the home he bought?
And why the hell isn't the INS knocking on his door?
Oh - I forgot, we have taken a lesson from the French and have already surrendered to Mexico...my bad.
The ITIN does not prove "they pay taxes to the IRS". It only proves that someone has an ITIN. Do they even ask to see an actual tax return?
Applicants also have to have a bank account,
A Matricula Consular ID gets you one of those.
proof of US residency for two years,
Two years of rent receipts will suffice.
and two years of credit references.
Paid utility bills. (They will waive doing actual credit checks.)
How did they check his credit? Did they really mean the true holder of the SS# has good credit and they extended it to "David"?
We can stop them with this time honored backup rule:
No shoes, no shirt, no service.
From the article:
The problem was David's social security number ... it's a fake.
"He gave us good news, saying, 'oh, you have good credit, you've been good on your payments. Sure, we can help you out!,'" he recalls.
How did they check his credit? Did they really mean the true holder of the SS# has good credit and they extended it to "David"?
The mentions below of services from gateway communities and matriculas are relevant to this article.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1472612/posts?page=38#38
Impact from illegal alien labor:
- Costing health care, retirement funding, education and law enforcement, accruing at $30 billion per year.
- USA is foregoing $35 billion a year in income tax collections because of the number of jobs that are now off the books.
- Census Bureau estimates that 8.7 million people are illegally residing in the USA
- Urban Institute estimates a total of 9.3 million are illegally residing in the USA
- Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates a total of 9.2 million are illegally residing in the USA
- The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) stated that the Bureau of Labor could have missed as many as 10% of illegal aliens, since illegal aliens avoid census questionnaires. The CIS suggests the total illegal population is at 10 million or higher (March 2004).
- Employers have incentive to hire undocumented workers off the books.
- Overseas labor markets have forced US employers to find innovative ways to capitalize on sources of cheaper labor to stay competitive.
- Employers place pressure on the government to ignore the flood of cheap labor.
- Services, ie but not limited to: public school enrollment, language proficiency programs, and building permits, that cater to illegal aliens have increased in areas that are considered gateways for immigration.
- The top nine states that account for 50% of illegal aliens are: California, Texas, Florida, New York, Illinois, New Jersey, Arizona, Georgia and North Carolina.
- Sole authority to govern immigration flow is placed on the federal government.
- Responsibility for providing support to legal and illegal immigrants rests with the state and local governments.
- Immigrants send home on average $1,400 to $1,500 per year through money transfers (also called Remittances).
- As per the World Bank in 2002, people sent $133 billion worldwide. Developing countries accounted for $88 billion of that.
- Remittances from the United States to Mexico have tripled to $13 billion between 1995 and 2003.
- As per the Pew Hispanic Center, 39% of surveyed Latino immigrants listed themselves as having legal status to opening bank accounts. This enables cash transfers through private money centers such as Western Union and Money Gram.
- HOWEVER, banks including Citibank, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo Bank began accepting matriculas, which are photographed identity cards for Mexicans living in the US.
- Matriculas are obtainable by any legal or illegal Mexican. Matriculas are widely obtainable through Mexican consulates across the USA.
- To date, around 2.5 million matriculas have been issued, and the number is growing.
- In major illegal alien gateway cities, the influx of immigrants has led to a housing boom unexplained by official population growth.
- In New Jersey, the three gateway towns are New Brunswick, Elizabeth, and Newark.
- Housing permits in these three towns shot up over six-fold, while the rest of the three counties only saw a three-fold increase.
- 80% of these permits were designated for multiple tenent dwellings.
- Official statistics state that illegal aliens in New Jersey have jumped 110% – an estimate that is inconsistent with the housing statistics. Local realtors' stats for multiple tenent housing and school enrollments suggest the number is higher.
- The major illegal alien gateway cities have experienced school enrollments much higher than projections.
- The decrease in the number of births in the past decade had led education administrators to expect decreasing school enrollments as a post echo boom trend.
- A higher immigration rate, however, has offset the impact of declining births.
- Enrollment stats for major illegal alien gateway city school districts that included: Queens, New York; Elizabeth, Newark and New Brunswick, New Jersey; and Wake County in North Carolina revealed explosive growth in immigrant students, far beyond numbers consistent with *legal* migration limits.
- NYC public school system is the largest in the nation, enrollment of 1.1 million students.
- Immigrant student enrollment for 1998-2001 was 103,000, with Queens accounting for the largest share, 37,000.
- Between 1990 and 2001, more than half of New York City’s school districts increased their enrollments 10% or more, driven by a high number of immigrant students.
- New York City Public Schools, 1999 to 2001: 102,867 immigrant students: Dominican Republic, China, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Ecuador, Colombia and Haiti.
He has 950 dollar a month payment. Add 300 a month on for utilities and at least another 400 a month for property taxes and insurance. That is a take home pay of at least 400 a week. When you add car payments and living expenses....What job that Americans can't work for, does David have?
Forget them gum. Aim high. You need some creative financing. Go to the bank, tell them you are Jose Guzman, an illegal drug dealer with a huge network worth millions, that you don't have any legal ID or SS, and you would like $1,500,000 to buy a little place in CA. I don't think you should have any problems.
Could a conservative public interest group, like FAIR, for instance, file suit or file some other type of legal action, warrant, cease and desist order, etc. to directly sanction a company for taking this type of illegal activity?
FR keword search, ACORN
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=acorn
Border ping
I'm with you. The ID requirements for opening a bank account are extremely strigent--for me! Not that that's a bad thing--its good to insure that the person is who he says he is. It makes sure the Government's records are accurate (especially for tax purposes), it protects the Bank, and it protects you. The fact that someone can just walk into a bank and get a major loan without a SS# is a serious breach of procedure and common sense. For example, the article says that this guy's credit "looked good", but how can you even do a reliable credit check without a SS#? You can't.
I have often thought that one set of rules existed for law abiding citizens, and another set to deal with people on the margins. The problem is that Government and traditional institutions have been winking at the latter, allowing them to get public services, vote, and now get mortgages. The taxpayer insures these PC loans (which are very high risk). When the financial institutions get burned, they will run to the Government for a bailout. It's all just another hidden cost of "cheap" labor.
IRS tidbit in here that may be of interest
ROFL!!!!!!!!!
>>>Banks don't often lend large sums of money to criminals.\
LOL!!!
The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now [ACORN] established the ACORN Housing Corporation (AHC) in 1986 to build and preserve housing assets. Since its inception, AHC has assisted over 45,000 families to become first time homeowners... AHC works in low and very low-income neighborhoods where over 90% of the residents are African-Americans, Mexican-Americans, and/or recent immigrants from Central America or the West Indies.
ACORN Housing has long realized that securing lending commitments from banks will not in itself overcome the legacy of disinvestment and racially discriminatory lending practices. Product innovations, community outreach, pre-purchase counseling, and delinquency counseling are all essential components of an effective program.
The home ownership and counseling program has grown to 29 cities. ACORN Housing now provides mortgage counseling to more individuals than any other organization in the country. There are Nationwide Offices located in Albuquerque, Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Bridgeport CT, Chicago, Contra Costa, Dallas, Ft. Lauderdale, Fresno, Houston, Indianapolis, Jersey City, Kansas City MO, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Milwaukee, New Haven CT, New Orleans, New York City, Newark, Oakland, Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Portland, Providence RI, Sacramento, San Antonio, San Bernadino, San Diego, San Jose, Seattle, Springfield MA, St. Louis, St. Paul, Tampa, Washington DC.
Illegals have been forcing their way into the United States far longer than President Bush has been the CiC. With that in mind, you'll have to go faaaar back in calling CiC's *duds*. Based on your posts though, it would appear that Bush is your primary bash-focus.
Since I live within a community that does this....
Once an illegal or even a legal of the migrant community has a house, it becomes a hub.
The basement, usually is converted with sheet rock to small living cubicles. Then families or groups live there and pay rent to the hub owner out of money they earn from jobs they are bussed to.
yes, they have their own vans and small buses that come and pick them up for their job of the day.
And they can't complain either, if they do, they are killed or sent back.
Their papers are held by the hub owner if they have any.
My brother had his birth certificate, his drivers license and his SS card, but it wasn't enough. In order to open an account he would have to also have either a major credit card or a passport. Oh well!
Americans have to pay insurance, social security, and income taxes, therefore there are no Jobs that David has than Americans can do with the same take home net pay after the legal expenses are incurred. David not only is cheaper to hire, but in some cases he ends up taking home more pay than Americans, and with more pay he is better able to afford a house according to my uncle who works for formally what was called INS in the Fresno area.
Citibank, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo Bank are the ones I have notes on.
David probably has another 4 families sharing the expenses of the household.
It has happened one street over from me. Small ranch house on a basement. 8 vehicles and tons of kids. Always pregnant. We call them block busters. In 3 years the schools have become so overcrowded they've had to add trailers and there is a terrible gang situation in the middle and high schools. Just noticed the other day that the gangs have started tagging the street signs. Unfortunately it everywhere. Besides, why should I have to keep moving? I'm an american citizen!!
Are you saying you can opt out of ss and income taxes being withheld from you check though?
Yes you are correct. I'm not sure if 'David' above is a true story or just a story to explain to us a situation that is occuring.
The homes I were specifically referencing in explaning a housing hub in one of my posts had more nonesense that was going on. If I tried to post it all, my point about the housing would be lost. But the monthly take home pay would be explained.
Might be a similar problem with the 'David' story.
Citigroup is that very rich Saudi's favorite stock and largest holding. Some may think elected leaders of political parties run this country but think again it is multinational corporations and the very few who run those corporations. David Rockefeller was once quite properly villified in my view as undermining the sovereignity of the United States. Well, just because Rockefeller is in the twilight of his years does not mean that there are not others from the shadows who have taken his place. Internationalists and NWO order crowd will bring this nation to its knees by two means the continued invasion of southern border and the continued influx of foreign money that has this country swimming in bad debts. This country will not be conquered militarily but by its lack of will to stop borrowing money it can never afford to repay.
I chatted with a co-worker that currently lives in the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex and he recently refinanced his house. So when it was time for the appraiser to do the appraisal he was asked if he wanted it high or low. The co-worker stated he wanted it low because he wasn't getting an equity loan just wanted lower payments. That way his property taxes would be lower as well than with a high appraisal. That conversation points out that a house's appraised value is more than likely not its true value. So how can this not be a problem? It gives the impression that everyone is scamming someone when it comes to house prices. Especially when the homeowner can influence the appraisal value depending upon his needs.
Quisling: a synonym for traitor, someone who collaborates with the invaders of his country.
A lot of the RE bubble can be traced to this false appraisal "game."
"The ITIN does not prove "they pay taxes to the IRS". It only proves that someone has an ITIN. Do they even ask to see an actual tax return?"
Are you seriously accusing President Bush of treason? Seriously?
These banks are insured by the FDIC. I think that the FDIC needs to be made aware when FDIC insured institutions are making risky loans with money that has been insured by taxpaying citizens.
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