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Is Homosexuality Genetic or an Evil Force that Plays Mind Games with People?
AkeGreen.org ^ | July 20, 2003 | Ake Green

Posted on 11/24/2005 6:30:15 AM PST by A. Pole

Pastor Åke Green
July 20, 2003 - Borgholm, Sweden

*Translator’s notes: This is a translation into contemporary American English of the Swedish sermon transcript. Corresponding Bible quotations are taken from the NIV (New International Version). The accuracy of the Bible quotes in Swedish are not verified against a Swedish Bible, but they all compare well to the NIV. Implied or omitted words and translation comments are in [brackets].

Translation team:
Anders Falk, of Falk Productions, Culver City, CA
Debra Sandstrom, freelancer, Coeur d’Alene, ID

EDITOR'S NOTE: The Swedish Bible of 1917 which Pastor Green used in his sermon best matches up with the King James Bible.  Therefore, all scripture quoted from the NIV by the translation team was changed over to the KJV in order for the message to better reflect (we believe) what Pastor Green was reading with his congregation that Sunday morning in July, 2003.




[Åke Green speaking]:


IS HOMOSEXUALITY GENETIC or an evil force that plays mind games with people?
I am well aware that this subject is charged and controversial -- and it has become so even in Christian circles. I have not sought support for my thoughts from the Word of God. Rather, the Word of God has given me the thoughts I will present here today. I will bring up the subject of homosexuality, but also the relationship to Christian homosexuals.

Is it a sign of the times and can you be delivered from it? From the beginning God created humans as man and woman. We begin in Genesis 1:27-28:

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

Here, God's Word clearly states that you were created to be Father and Mother - as man and woman - designed for parenthood. The Lord states that very clearly here.

Scripture considers any kind of sexual relationship outside of the bonds of marriage as loose living. The Scripture characterizes it as fornication. The marriage institution is also clearly defined in Genesis 2:24, where it says:

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

Only man and wife are referred to here. It is not stated any other way; you can never imply or interpret it to mean that you can have whatever [sexual] partner you wish to have.

That instinct, which God has embedded in humanity to experience the deepest form of relationship, and in order to protect marriage in true faithfulness, has become the Devil's strongest weapon against God and against marriage. So he is using it against God. That which God has created so that man shall experience togetherness and faithfulness and happiness and everything it brings -- the Devil uses this against God and in God's face, in order to twist and distort.

Of course, in the animal kingdom there are males and females, and in the botanical world there are also male and female plants; in neither the animal nor in plant life do [sexual] abnormalities occur. Rather, every species stays with its own species. That is the way it is -- until humans, in recent years, have stomped into this area with test tube fertilization and through cloning. Up until that point it has been as God has said that we should live.

Legalizing [domestic] partnerships between men and men, between woman and woman, it will simply create disasters -- beyond comparison! We are already seeing the results of this. We see it through the spread of AIDS. Certainly, not all AIDS-infected individuals are homosexuals, but it came into existence because of this in the past. For that matter, innocent people can become infected with this terrible disease, without having had anything to do with what lies behind it, as far as homosexuality is concerned. Nevertheless it will create a big disaster, and the authorities and the social services are already experiencing that you cannot control this. They experience the difficulty of it. However, not only that: TV recently reported about the increasing number of men and women infected with various venereal diseases. It is increasingly spreading because they are not living as God has intended them to live together with each other. And that is because humans are slipping into clearly unbiblical and clearly inhuman relations. It is not a private matter or a right to live in a sexual manner other than what the Bible dictates. Hebrews 13:4:

"Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge."

Regardless of how society views this, God will judge both society and those who commit sexual immorality. Remember that. Both society or the city, or the place, God will judge because of those who commit sexual immorality.

Let's go back in history to Genesis 19:1-5. Verse 4:

"But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them."  [v. 4-5]

Here we read for the first time about homosexual men. All the men of Sodom openly spoke [of] and openly displayed their deviant sexual disposition. Both young and old, we read here -- everyone. Then they put it this way: "So that we may know them". This means sexual relations -- the same expression the Bible uses when a man goes in to a woman [for intercourse]. It is exactly the same expression here that talks about these men, who lusted after each other. Isaiah 3:9 states it this way: "The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves." [Hiding your sin] was not done in Sodom. Openly they show up in front of the house and call for Lot. The righteous one, they do not spare him in any way, but say: "Bring out these men that we may know [have sex with] them. We are simply lusting for them." So there they stand in plain sight. They do not hide their sin. Completely openly and unabashedly they talk about their sexual needs, and that tells you something about the conditions in Sodom.

God tells Abraham in Genesis 18:20: "And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous." Thus says the Lord. So grievous! The outcry from Sodom and Gomorrah it is great and the sin is grievous. That is how God views the aberrant sexual relationship, It is very grievous, says God. It is very grievous, this, when people let themselves get involved in this.

Openly, unabashedly, that is how we perceive men kissing each other, and women kissing each other. However, it is also done in front of TV-cameras -- that they can do. They do it also in front of movie cameras, but not only that, it is done openly in the street and at our public places. That is the way it is done in our country today. What does God say? He says it is very grievous. It is very grievous when it comes to our country, just as it was for Sodom and those cities.

Paul says in Philippians 3:19 that they brag about their sexual exploits. Is that not what we perceive people doing today? People nowadays want to protest against God's order of creation. That God has created men and women to further the human race is disliked both by the Swedish law of the land, as well as by the homosexual movements. They dislike the order of creation. You protest against God and against the order of creation. Moreover, they allow [domestic] partnerships, men with men, and women with women. How can it... how can it be this way? Well, it is as Paul says in the letter to the Romans, which I will come back to in a moment. Romans 1:22: "...they became fools!" To think that those who govern our country are fools sitting in the house of parliament. To think that there they all are, the government, who have agreed to this insanity and let loose this flood of sin in our country. It is foolishness, says the Word of God. Consequently, I believe the Lord says about this sin in Sweden that it is very, very grievous. And why then has this manner of living come about? Well, then we of course turn to the first chapter of the Letter to the Romans and include the verses there, where Paul thoroughly deals with the subject. There was reason for it, since the Roman Empire was permeated by these thoughts of homosexuality. It was something that was flourishing so terribly, and he had to deal with it so that it did not become a pattern in God's congregation as well.

Why has this manner of living come about? Romans 1 :21-28:

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient."

They exchanged the highest... they exchanged the Lord for the lowest there is. That is what they exchanged, Paul states here. It is only a fool who acts that way, he says. Since they do it in this way, they reject God who is the blessing, God who is the Sovereign One, God who is the Master of all things. They reject Him. The Word of God is law and the standard for living, but it is of no use to accept God's Word in principle and say: "Yes, this is God's Word," if in practice you disobey His commands. What difference does it make if I acknowledge the Word of God, but in practice I break it by acting completely contrary, and living completely contrary, to what the Word says. Since God's Word demands obedience from us, we must obey it if we are to receive God's blessing and fulfillment in our lives, and be called children of God. Here in the 28th verse: "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient." Man is clearly equipped with a free will and can either resist or submit to the inclinations of the old nature. We truly have the power to do that. Moreover, the moral nature of man shows itself through the expression of good and evil, which is written in our hearts: the voice of conscience that we have within us. In this way, our thoughts judge us, either defending or accusing us. If we say with our mouth: "There is nothing wrong with what I am doing," but the heart says something else. It does not matter if you defend a sin you are living in, or defend someone else's sin. Your heart says something different, because your heart judges your thoughts. You can with your mouth babble about all sorts of things, but the heart will convict us. That is what the Bible passage is saying here. And in Romans 2:14- 15:

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another."

There is a conscience. When we turn our back on God and refuse to receive knowledge, then God removes His Spirit from the conscience -- the conscience becomes insensitive and wavers. Then there are no longer any inhibitions for a human being. God no longer guides these people, because they proceed all the more in ungodliness. Romans 1 :24:

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves."

Homosexuality begins with the desire of the heart. This is the result--sins of the mind. The fantasies you entertain, or the sexual dreams that you harbor. And here [you have] the porn industry, TV, movie and print business. They have awakened these powerful desires by openly promoting [this homosexual lifestyle] to all Swedish people. It is done unabashedly, without consideration for people who cannot bear to see such things. As a result, people may commit acts of violence. It is known that this is dangerous. Nevertheless, it is not prevented. It is openly shown. Demonstrations that wind their way through the streets of Stockholm - the homosexuals have their posters held up and paraded about - I asked the Oland Times to write an article about this, and I made myself available. Not a single one got back to me. I contacted the Barometer [newspaper] and said: "I am going to preach on this subject. You're welcome [to attend]." Not a response, nothing. I called the TV -station and said the same thing: "Do you want to come on Sunday morning, because then I'm going to preach on this burning subject?" "Yes, we probably have some time," they said. I called on Monday, but nobody responded. They simply let this one pass. They do not want to deal with it.

Romans 1:26-27:

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."

The desires of the heart turned into shameful lusts. "Burned" means to turn on. That is the way people do it. You turn on a prompting in there [the mind] when you have your sexual fantasies or dreams, or when you see these things in magazines or in movies. Then it simply means that you ignite something inside yourself, through one's contempt of God. Moreover, when the shameful lusts take shape in the personality, it becomes an uncontrollable power, like a fire that cannot be extinguished. And God does not extinguish that fire, says Paul. God does not extinguish a fire you have [ignited] yourself, in your own life. God lets it burn. Then it says in Romans 1:27b "receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet." Consequently, when people do not want to resist - but uncontrollably, uninhibitedly devote themselves to this, [then] God lets it burn. Judgment day is coming, and they will be judged for the fire that they have allowed to burn. Here Paul emphasizes that both women and men were on the same level when they practiced homosexuality. The one was no better than the other. That is the way it was in the Roman Empire.

Leviticus 18:22-30:

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion."  [v. 22-23]

From verse 27: "For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;) That the land spew not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spewed out the nations that were before you. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God."

The Bible clearly teaches about these abnormalities. Sexual abnormalities are a deep cancerous tumor in the entire society. The Lord knows that sexually twisted people will rape the animals. Not even animals can avoid the fiery passion of man's sexual lust. Even this [bestiality], some will pursue. For many years, I have heard stories like these from people when I sat and listened as a volunteer telephone counselor. This wasn't just one incident where people told of the animal [sexual] relations they had had -- which had given them satisfaction. So it is abundantly clear that God is not writing a book of fairy tales for people to think of these things. He writes it with the thought in mind that people will act this way when they abandon God. Because of these sins, the land will vomit out its inhabitants. The political response to this in our country is then what Paul talks about: "We know God's righteous decree that those who live that way deserve death. Still it is in that very way they live, and worse yet, they think it is good when others do it." [paraphrase of Romans 1:32.] This is how we experience the political response in our country. They [government] give their consent and they think it is good that they are engaged in this. "It doesn't matter."

However, our country is facing a disaster of great proportions! Of that we can be sure. God said the land would vomit out its inhabitants. They were not allowed to remain if they continued living like the people who had previously inhabited the land. When the children of Israel were about to possess the promised land, should they begin to have such relations that were contrary to God's Word, then God says the land will once again vomit out its inhabitants. I think it could happen in Sweden. I think it could happen in our country, because we have adopted such laws. Our country has not the least concern about what God has spoken. Our country is facing a disaster. Who is to say that we cannot have an earthquake where hundreds of thousands of people could die in an instant? Who is to say that we cannot have any monsoon rains that drown thousands of people in our country? Who is to say that other catastrophes cannot reach Scandinavia? We are so safe and secure. And we sit here so sheltered and cozy, and "it cannot happen to us," but in southern Europe - there it happens, and in other parts of the world and China - there it happens. God can turn it around, so that the inhabitants of our land may experience precisely these [events]. We may be vomited out of the land because our nation has left God. This is devastating.

To think that approximately 300 of our popularly elected officials have led us down a road to catastrophe. As they have adopted these laws of [domestic] partnership and let people live as they wish. And today they cannot fathom the consequences of the decisions they have made. Only time will tell about this. We have gotten to learn words like "incest, pedophile, and child molestation." Words that make us shudder, that belong to the abnormalities. I want to turn to First Corinthians chapter six and include something Paul brings up concerning the Corinthian congregation and their way of life. He says in verse 9 [-11]: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionists, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Now I read from the original text, it goes like this: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Do not deceive yourselves. Neither sexually immoral people nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor people of sensual pleasure, nor defilers of boys, shall inherit God's kingdom." Defilers of boys -- already when the Bible was written the Lord knew what was going to happen. We have experienced it here, and we are horrified by it. In First Timothy 1:10 Paul talks about perverts. "Perverse" is translated from the original text, which states: "one who lies with boys."

All homosexuals are not pedophiles or perverts. They nevertheless open the door to forbidden areas and allow sin to take hold of the life of the mind. And the one who is a pedophile today does not start out as such. They simply begin by changing their gender relationships. That is how it began. To be "faithful" in a homosexual relationship is in no way a better relationship than where you frequently change partners. It is equally detestable in the eyes of God. From God's perspective it is to be rejected, and from God's perspective it is as much sin if you frequently change partners as it is to live in a [committed] homosexual relationship. It makes no difference before God's Word.

Is homosexuality a genetic instinct in the personality of the human being? What does Jesus say in Matthew 15:18 [-20]? A verse we sometimes read and quote:

"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man."

Jesus is clearly pointing to the heart, the intellect, and the invisible thought life. That is where Jesus sharply focuses his thoughts on this occasion. Jesus means that the sins of sexual immorality begin in the thought life. When I have been sitting, listening to people in the night [on the crisis hot-line], everyone without exception has begun dealing with homosexuality in their thoughts. Often it happened in their teenage years, but it also happened when they lived in an unhappy marriage -- women did not experience what they needed from a man. Therefore they sought the company of other women -- and men likewise. Consequently it was such that they began their sins of sexual immorality in their thought life. And from there it continued to spread. And without exception, they all said that the first time they engaged in this behavior, there was a barrier within them. Everyone said that. However, when they had done it only once, the barrier was broken. So we see that man, even despite his sins of sexual immorality, has a protection through this barrier. After a few encounters, it became easier every time. Now we understand what Jesus is saying about the sins of the thought life.

Romans 1:26: both men and women exchanged natural [sexual] relationships for unnatural ones. There simply must be a choice that you make. They exchange. Then you exchange away something. It is a free choice. There was no one coercing. Exchange means that you voluntarily part with something and voluntarily receive something else. Voluntarily I part with the cleanliness and receive the uncleanness. A conscious exchange, Paul says. Consciously they exchanged, Paul says. Homosexuality is something sick. A healthy and clean thought has been exchanged for a contaminated [or defiled] one. A healthy heart has been exchanged for a sick one. A healthy body has been devastated because of an exchange. Paul says in First Corinthians 6:18: "Flee fornication." Sexual immorality dishonors the body. It should not be [merely] discussed, not combated -- you should flee from it like Joseph. What did the Lord say to Lot? Flee for your life. "Flee," the Lord consequently says.

Is homosexuality something one chooses? Answer: YES. You choose it. You are not born into it. It is absolutely that way; otherwise it would be a betrayal of mankind. You voluntarily enter into this.

Can you live in homosexuality and be a Christian? Ephesians 5:3,5-6:

"But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints."

[5- 7:] "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them."

Let no one deceive you. Do you think that you can be a Christian and be a homosexual? Then you deceive yourself, you fool yourself. What if others are saying that "it isn't so bad and God is full of love"? He is full of love, but He is also holy. He has said that He hates immorality, and therefore [the sexual immoral] can not be a Christian. Those who live that way are not a child of God and cannot be one. We must say it so people hear it. Do not fool yourselves, dear people. It is deceit of the highest level if you think you can fool yourselves. For the Devil says: "You can be a Christian, and you can be good as a Christian, and you can live like this anyway." "You can be faithful in your partnership," says the enemy of souls. However, the Word of God says something else. Delusions that lead to punishment we read about in Romans 1:27.

Revelations 22:14-15: "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

Can it be stated more clearly? If this is what you engage in, and live like in such a world, then you are living a lie, and you cannot enter the kingdom of God. You do not get in. You can be a Christ-professing homosexual, live that way, but you do not get into Heaven on that. I want to emphasize that God's Word teaches this. Can you be a Christian homosexual man or woman? No, you cannot. Then you deceive yourself, says the Word of the Lord. And these will then stand there in shame one day.

Is this lifestyle of sexual immorality a sign of the times? Luke 17:28. Yes, in [the gospel of] Luke, Jesus brings this up, among other places in chapter 17, speaking there of how it will be in the days of Noah, and how it will be in the days of Lot. How they lived back then. They ate and drank, bought and sold, planted and built. But one day, when Lot left Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and finished them all off. It will be the same on that day when the Son of Man is revealed. What was it that led to these cities perishing, losing their dignity, disappearing from the face of the Earth? It was because they lived in homosexuality. It will be the same on that day when the Son of Man is revealed; consequently, this is a sign of the times we are facing. As people lived in the time of Lot, so shall they live before Jesus returns. This is something we cannot deny in any way. Jesus says that the lifestyle of Sodom shall be active in the whole Earth before the coming of Jesus. The one who represents this lifestyle today goes against God's order of creation. From Matthew 18, I must include verse 6 where Jesus deals with children, stating:

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." [The Swedish version's quote of "offend" is "seduce."]

"Seduce" is here translated from the word skandala [scandal]. So now we all know what it is -- a scandal. It is a scandal to seduce one of these little ones, and now I want to focus a little on the situation of the children in the relationship of a [domestic] partnership. [It is] a scandal to rob a child of its Mommy and its Daddy. It is a scandal, Jesus says. It is a scandal to let innocent children be subjected to this torture. You violate a child by moving it from parents, from Mommy and Daddy, to either two men or two women. It can be said that two men can bring up children just as well, or that two women can bring up children just as well. Yes, that I believe, that they can bring up [children] that way, but it nevertheless goes against nature, and it is a scandal when you do it that way, Jesus says. Where somebody seduces one of these little ones, and they have to grow up in such an environment.

Sodom, as a cautionary example, is mentioned over 30 times in the Bible. These sins of sexual immorality are so deeply rooted that not even the judgments of the tribulation are able to make people abandon the sin of sexual immorality. Revelations 9:20 [-21]:

"And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts."

The judgments cannot convince people to abandon their sins of sexual immorality. Is this not possession by evil spiritual forces? It is so deeply rooted in man that when the judgments come and go across our world, the sexually immoral will not change, but they will continue to live as sexually immoral people. Consequently, it must be that they are gripped by evil spiritual forces.

A good married life prevents sins of sexual immorality. First Corinthians 7:2-5:

"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency."

A good married life, where the man gives the woman what the woman needs, and where the woman gives the man what he needs, that prevents the sins of sexual immorality, Paul says. "Prevent", Paul says, otherwise Satan may tempt you. Then these thoughts may enter the life of our mind, and in such a way we might experience and fall into temptation.

Can homosexuals be set free or do they have to be tormented by this impulse in them? First Corinthians 6:9-11:

"... Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind... shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

The Word of God offers power to live a pure life. This Bible passage talks about what they used to live like -- in sexual immorality and adultery, but they were washed clean. Hallelujah! And Paul says in Titus that we lived "enslaved by all kinds of passions" [Titus 3:3], but we encountered the mercy of our God and Savior. Then He saved us, praise God -- from the sins of sexual immorality, from homosexuality. That, He saved us from. With Sodom and Gomorrah in mind Jesus says [that] if they had heard the same message as Capernaum they would have repented [Matthew 11 :23-24].

Jesus is saying that you have to repent. Jesus' view of homosexuality is a call to repentance. They have washed their robes and made them white, therefore they stand before the throne of God. There is a purifier. Nobody has to be defeated by sexual immorality. Nobody has to say: "I have such a losing battle in this area." Everybody can be set free and delivered. You can receive it if you want it.

Can homosexuals be delivered from this diabolical power? Yes, they can. Because if the Corinthians could be cleansed from these abnormalities they lived in, then each and everyone can also experience it [today]. I thank God that Paul, in the Letter to the Romans and the Letter to the Corinthians, has written as clearly and plainly as he has, regarding these sexual issues. If those people had not had those struggles, then we would never have known about it. Rather, we would have thought that we experienced this only in recent times, but it has existed through all of history, and God wants to save every generation from these sins. We must not say: "We have to accept this." We cannot bless [domestic] partnerships. We cannot unite ourselves with that. We cannot lay hands on those people and say: "We bless you." That we cannot do, then we draw the disapproval of God on our lives -- that is why it is so important.

The Bible's answer to the question: "Is homosexuality a genetic instinct?" It is not.

The Bible's answer to the question: "Is it an evil force that plays games with people?" Yes, it is. And we must understand that it is that way.

Amen.

[Congregational Song]

"The only thing I know is that grace is sufficient,

that the blood of Christ my sin, my guilt now covers."

[Åke Green speaking]

We must never think that some people, because of their sinful lives, would end up outside of grace. Paul says about himself that he was the foremost of all sinners, but he encountered an abundance of grace and mercy. He also states in First Corinthians 6:9-11, when he lists sexual immorality with other sins, that you can be saved from all the listed sins, including sexual immorality. What these people need, who live under the slavery of sexual immorality, is an abundant grace. It exists. It is valid also for them. Therefore we will encourage those who live in this manner to look at the grace of Jesus Christ. We cannot condemn these people -- Jesus never did that either. He showed everyone He met deep respect for the person they were, for instance the adulterous woman, in John 8, or the woman at the well in Sychar, according to John 4. Jesus never belittled anyone. He offered them grace. We must never belittle anyone who lives in sin. The sin we cannot bear -- but the human being [we must hold up]. Surely we still believe it is as Paul says in the Letter to Titus [2: 11-12]. Listen:

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world."

It is by showing all people grace and mercy that we can win them for Christ. We never win anyone by giving them the cold shoulder.

If anyone wants to talk or receive intercessory prayer, you are welcome to let us know. I do not think it is appropriate today to invite people forward in this service, it can be misconceived. Let us now cover each other in prayer...


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TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: church; eu; europe; freedom; gay; homosexual; homosexualagenda; nihilism; pastor; speech; sweden; truth
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1 posted on 11/24/2005 6:30:19 AM PST by A. Pole
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To: ninenot; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; FITZ; arete; ...

Swedish pastor stands now before Sweden's Supreme Court on "hate crime" charges. The charges against the pastor, Ake Green, stem from a sermon he preached on the biblical view of homosexual behavior.


2 posted on 11/24/2005 6:32:13 AM PST by A. Pole (Marcus Lucanus: "Pigmies placed on the shoulders of giants see more than the giants themselves.")
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To: A. Pole

While I do not agree with the pastor's stance on homosexuality, I think that it is terrible that he is being persecuted for speaking his beliefs. Sweden has become an Orwellian nightmare of a country.


3 posted on 11/24/2005 6:35:45 AM PST by DGray (http://nicanfhilidh.blogspot.com)
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To: DGray
Sweden has become an Orwellian nightmare of a country.

The U.S. has permittes censored speech on university campuses subsized by tax dollars. In other words, it is happening here, too.

4 posted on 11/24/2005 6:52:10 AM PST by TheGeezer
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To: A. Pole

Warning: An obsession to be Queer has the very real consequence of making you queer trying to appear normal, yet everyones knows your queer.. because you are..


5 posted on 11/24/2005 7:04:21 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: A. Pole

I don't profess to having even the slightest clue as to the answer to the question posed. I do, however, have an observation (a subjective one at that).

EVERY homosexual I have ever known has a similar trait in their background. A dominant mother in the household and a weak or absent father. The mother, in some cases, has been a well meaning single mom who just pushed the control issue to far for too long. In other cases, it has been the steroyupical raving battle-axe who often sent the father fleeing or had the father cowed and brow-beaten into submissiveness.

But, every gay I've known has come from a background of the DOMINANT mother figure.

My subjectve opinion, a boy needs his father and his father needs to be a man.

Feel free to flame away. Like I said, mine is a very subjective observation and opinion.


6 posted on 11/24/2005 7:09:09 AM PST by Buckeye Battle Cry (Life is too short to go through it clenched of sphincter and void of humor - it's okay to laugh.)
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To: A. Pole

Answer: Evil

Next question please.....


7 posted on 11/24/2005 7:12:19 AM PST by nevergore (“It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.”)
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To: A. Pole
I don't know whether it's genetic or what, but I am convinced that many homosexuals of both sexes are born that way, will always be that way, and cannot change.

I think that there is also a group of people who become de facto homosexuals because of environmental factors, childhood trauma for example, but who were not inherently homosexual. Perhaps it is possible for some of these people to adjust to heterosexual orientation, perhaps not. Some can not; this probably depends on various factors such as the severity of the causative trauma, the personal resources of the individual involved, et al.

8 posted on 11/24/2005 7:13:48 AM PST by Savage Beast ("Oprah: The light that shines so gently on those who need it most." ~Sidney Poitier)
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To: A. Pole

Its an evil mental illness. It's not genetic, that is bullshi8.


9 posted on 11/24/2005 7:19:13 AM PST by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys-Reagan and Bush)
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To: Buckeye Battle Cry

I've heard that male homosexuality tendency (underline "tendency") is fairly well explained, as you describe, but not female homosexuality.

The key idea is one may have certain tendecies, many of us have a polygamist "orientation" for example, but that doesn't mean we excuse the lecher. Neither should we excuse the homosexual. We may not choose our desires---but we DO choose what to do with them...

There is no "right" to have sex with whoever (or whatever) you want.


10 posted on 11/24/2005 7:23:45 AM PST by AnalogReigns (All Christians believe God is intelligent and He designed the world...)
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To: A. Pole
Swedish pastor stands now before Sweden's Supreme Court on "hate crime" charges. The charges against the pastor, Ake Green, stem from a sermon he preached on the biblical view of homosexual behavior.

As he said we are now living in the days of Noah.

Look up!

Seek Y'shua as your personal saviour.

b'shem Y'shua

11 posted on 11/24/2005 7:26:24 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
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To: DGray
While I do not agree with the pastor's stance on homosexuality, ...

The Pastor's stance is that the Word teaches that homosexuality is a detestable sin, which may be overcome through the power of God. With what do you disagree?

12 posted on 11/24/2005 7:44:51 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: AnalogReigns
re :There is no "right" to have sex with whoever (or whatever) you want.

That raises an important point do we only do that which we have a right to do. Where everyone clashes is in the realm of personal liberty, I have seen this on both the right and left where each defends there personal liberty while doing there utmost to deny someone else's there's.

13 posted on 11/24/2005 7:46:13 AM PST by tonycavanagh
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To: Forest Keeper

I don't agree that homosexuality is a detestable sin. :)


14 posted on 11/24/2005 7:47:44 AM PST by DGray (http://nicanfhilidh.blogspot.com)
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To: AnalogReigns

The "right" to have sex with whomsoever you want is tempered by the consent of the other. You have no right to have sex with an animal or child since they cannot legally give consent. But you would certainly have the right to have sex with other adults who consent. Do you get all your rights from the government or the constitution? If so, how do you have the right to walk outside? Where is that written?


15 posted on 11/24/2005 7:50:50 AM PST by bigsigh
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To: A. Pole; EdReform; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; stage left; Yakboy; ...

Homosexual Agenda Ping.

Happy Thanks Giving!

Here's the "hatespeech" sermon by the Swedish Pastor. I read about a third of it, and realized I'll have to read the rest later. I think it's beautiful, true, founded on scripture, and note this at the end:

"We must never think that some people, because of their sinful lives, would end up outside of grace. Paul says about himself that he was the foremost of all sinners, but he encountered an abundance of grace and mercy. He also states in First Corinthians 6:9-11, when he lists sexual immorality with other sins, that you can be saved from all the listed sins, including sexual immorality. What these people need, who live under the slavery of sexual immorality, is an abundant grace. It exists. It is valid also for them.

Therefore we will encourage those who live in this manner to look at the grace of Jesus Christ. We cannot condemn these people -- Jesus never did that either. He showed everyone He met deep respect for the person they were, for instance the adulterous woman, in John 8, or the woman at the well in Sychar, according to John 4. Jesus never belittled anyone. He offered them grace. We must never belittle anyone who lives in sin. The sin we cannot bear -- but the human being [we must hold up]."

That's not "Hate Speech", that's Love Speech.

Freepmail DirtyHarryY2K and me if you want on/off this pinglist.


16 posted on 11/24/2005 7:51:42 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: A. Pole

This article states the scriptural verdict on homosexuality. Therefore it is God's view, and everyone will answer to him the day they die.


17 posted on 11/24/2005 7:52:06 AM PST by RoadTest (I am come - - that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.)
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To: DGray
While I do not agree with the pastor's stance on homosexuality

Did you read the article? It's not about the "pastor's stance". All he does is go directly to Scripture without putting in his own ideas and comes to the only conclusion one can logically draw:

"I have not sought support for my thoughts from the Word of God. Rather, the Word of God has given me the thoughts I will present here today."

Maybe you don't like what the Bible has to say about it.

18 posted on 11/24/2005 7:55:11 AM PST by CheneyChick
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To: A. Pole
We're told way back in Genesis 1 that the reason God created man was to have mankind be in His image. V. 26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image....."

Then we have it in Gen 1:27, "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.

We can only deduce that profaning the male-female relationship is profaning the image of God.

The ramifications of that should scare the pants off of anyone.

19 posted on 11/24/2005 7:55:21 AM PST by nightdriver
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To: Buckeye Battle Cry
"EVERY homosexual I have ever known has a similar trait in their background. A dominant mother in the household and a weak or absent father."

Well, hat to burst your bubble but my Uncle and Aunt are VERY strict Christians and one of their sons is a Homosexual. His father was always there for him. We knew my cousin was a flamer from a very early age. At the age of 18 my Uncle and Aunt asked him to move out of their home as they could not handle dealing with his "condition".
No amount of praying or church has been able to change him. He is a very successful businessman working overseas for an American company now.

It's my opinion that some people are just born that way.

Flame away.
20 posted on 11/24/2005 7:56:47 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: A. Pole
Here's a listing of other articles on the Bible and homosexuality:

2004

Scholar to address biblical references to homosexuality
'Gay Militia' storms Christian meeting
Bible verses regarded as hate literature
The Bible and Homosexuality

2003

What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality, Adultery...
What does the Bible actually say about being gay?
The Christian Confronted by Homosexuality
Talmud on Homosexuality
Is banning the Bible next?
Christianity and Homosexuality
A divisive debate over the Bible spotlighted Episcopalians' OK for gay bishop

2002

The Bible as 'hate literature'?
Responding to Pro-Gay Theology

1999

The Challenge of Maintaining a Biblical Perspective on Homosexuality
Homosexuality: Balancing Truth and Mercy

1998

St. Paul's Argument From Nature Against Homosexuality
Roman's 1 on Homosexuality
Leviticus and Homosexuality

21 posted on 11/24/2005 7:58:23 AM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: DGray
I don't agree that homosexuality is a detestable sin.

OK, may I ask if that is because you believe the Pastor misinterpreted what the Bible says, or do you believe that what God says about the issue is wrong? (BTW, I know that in no way were you attacking the Pastor.) IOW, I don't think the Pastor was speaking against homosexuality at all from his own authority or beliefs. I think he was just saying what he thought God says about it.

22 posted on 11/24/2005 7:59:07 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: A. Pole
Is homosexuality genetic? Here are some articles from the year 2005 on the subject:

Latest 'Gay' Brain Study Scrutinized
Mommy, Am I A Boy Or A Girl?
New Genetics Study Undermines Gay Gene Theory
Impossible becomes conceivable... same-sex couples may one day have genetic offspring
Homosexual Researcher Claims Genome Scan Of Sexual Orientation
Gay-Affirmative Public School Teachers/Curricula May Influence Brain Maturation In Teens
On Ducks And Homosexuality
Genes Linked With Male Sexual Orientation Found
Studies Showing The Relationship Between Childhood Sexual Abuse & Later Involvement In Homosexuality

23 posted on 11/24/2005 8:00:05 AM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: A. Pole
Articles from 2004 on genetics and homosexuality:

Ex-Gay Is Ok
Science Shows That Homosexuals Are Not 'Born That Way'
Heteroflexible -- or Fauxmosexual?
'This is the Way God Made Me': A Scientific Examination of Homosexuality and the 'Gay Gene'
What About the 'Gay Gene'? An Honest Look at the Evidence
Homosexuality: The Essentialist Argument Continues to Erode
Homosexuality is not biologically determined - latest research
The Animal Homosexuality Myth
Fencing with the NY Times Over Gay Marriage
Expert Gives Powerful Testimony in Defense of the Family
Born or Bred? Science Does Not Support the Claim That Homosexuality is Genetic
Gays in Society: The Growing Clash

24 posted on 11/24/2005 8:02:15 AM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: A. Pole

I just read the rest of the sermon. I'll admit this part brought tears to my eyes:

"Jesus is saying that you have to repent. Jesus' view of homosexuality is a call to repentance. They have washed their robes and made them white, therefore they stand before the throne of God. There is a purifier. Nobody has to be defeated by sexual immorality. Nobody has to say: "I have such a losing battle in this area." Everybody can be set free and delivered. You can receive it if you want it."

Anyone who calls this "hatespeech" is insane.


25 posted on 11/24/2005 8:04:10 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: A. Pole

Nobody but God knows for certain. But if a gay gene is ever identified it will end abortion and the democrat party.


26 posted on 11/24/2005 8:04:56 AM PST by wtc911 (see my profile for how to contribute to a pentagon heroes fund)
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To: little jeremiah

It's not hate speech. It's you trying to impose your religion on the rest of the populace.


27 posted on 11/24/2005 8:05:09 AM PST by bigsigh
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To: Buckeye Battle Cry
My subjectve opinion, a boy needs his father and his father needs to be a man.

Here's an excellent summary on the subject: How Might Homosexuality Develop? Putting the Pieces Together.

Here's a book I recommend for all parents: A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality.

28 posted on 11/24/2005 8:06:39 AM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter

Happy Thanks Giving!


29 posted on 11/24/2005 8:07:44 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah

Happy Thanksgiving to you, too!


30 posted on 11/24/2005 8:09:01 AM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: taxed2death
If passing genetic code depends on sexual relations with women (and repeatedly, for pregnancy doesn't occur each time), and the genetic code must determine homosexuality in order for homosexuals to be born that way, how do you explain the presence of homosexuality today?

31 posted on 11/24/2005 8:09:24 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: All

It's all fine and good to believe the Bible and preach against sin, but we are dealing with people here, sinners, just like you and me.

Because my sins are not theirs, why do I have a right to single out them for denunciation? Their's is only one of the sins condemned in the book of Romans. What about the others?

I despise political correctness and this culture that would jail an innocent pastor who preaches the Gospel. But in the process of fighting wickedness, we have to spread God's grace to this terribly suffering class of people.

A young gay man once came to me saying I was the first pastor he could ask a troubling question to. It was: "Why does your church hate me? What did I ever do to them?" I wept in his presence.

Never forget the grace we have been shown. Without love, we are loud, clanging cymbals.


32 posted on 11/24/2005 8:09:35 AM PST by Luke21 (Political correctness is the insane religion of our rulers.)
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To: Savage Beast
Image hosted by Photobucket.com so only bi-sexuals are perverted then??? cause for them it sure is a choice...
33 posted on 11/24/2005 8:10:29 AM PST by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
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To: All
If you're not sure where you stand on this issue, you may find this of interest: Dr. Robert Spitzer Interviewed In 'Christianity Today' Magazine. Read that very carefully. Take special note of who Dr. Spitzer is, what he used to think and what he thinks and says now.

Now couple the above with the very important results of the Twins Studies, a summary of what science has stated and the extremely important growing number of ex-gays. After reading the above links you should have a better understanding of the issues.

34 posted on 11/24/2005 8:13:55 AM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: wtc911
But if a gay gene is ever identified it will end abortion and the democrat party.

How would this result?

35 posted on 11/24/2005 8:14:39 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: taxed2death
It's my opinion that some people are just born that way.

a. Birth defect?

b. Mental illness?

c. Choice?

The logical and scientific answer is not a biological one observing the obvious role of anatomical function in mammalian sexual reproduction...

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

He is a very successful businessman working overseas for an American company now.

George Soros is also succsessful, but so was Josef Stalin. Is this your liberal defininition for a person of worth?

What you will refuse to admit is that some people, despite their background, are perverted pieces of crap.

36 posted on 11/24/2005 8:21:24 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Forest Keeper
But if a gay gene is ever identified it will end abortion and the democrat party. How would this result?

======================================================

If a fetus can be identified in utero as being gay then some women will abort rather than have a gay child, especially those upper-middle class college educated white women who don't plan on more than one or two kids.

Gay activists will argue vehemently that this will eventually lead to eradication of the next generation of gays. They will demand that gay embryos be protected, in other words that they have the right to live. Pro-life Americans will join them arguing that all embryos have the same right. The feminists and libs will fight just as hard against it. The fight between the gays and the feminazis will tear the democrats apart and weaken them as a party to the extent that they will become ineffective and will not have the muscle to stop the reversal of Roe v. Wade.

37 posted on 11/24/2005 8:28:26 AM PST by wtc911 (see my profile for how to contribute to a pentagon heroes fund)
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To: All
Straight Talk Radio is a Christian ministy dedicated to helping homosexuals out of the lifestyle. It's run by Stephen Bennett Ministries and, IMO, is a much needed ministry.
38 posted on 11/24/2005 8:28:27 AM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: A. Pole

I am always amazed at the enthusiasm and detail with which the Bible is quoted by people who have never read it in it's original form. Not being a speaker of Hebrew or Aramaic I have to trust the translators of the old testament - likewise those who translated the new testament from it's original Greek. By and large the translation used is the King James Version translated by 54 English scholars and bishops spread between Oxford, Cambridge and Westminster. So what is really being quoted is a series of books written largely by arabs and then translated by Englishmen 400 years ago and therefore reflecting the beliefs and standards of Englishmen in 1600.

That's not to say it's not valid, but a lot must have changed since it was originally written, such that taking it literally as the word of God is to place a great deal of faith in the objectivity of those select and elite members of mediaeval English society doing the translating.


39 posted on 11/24/2005 8:34:02 AM PST by Anglophilestine
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To: Anglophilestine
That's not to say it's not valid, but a lot must have changed since it was originally written, such that taking it literally as the word of God is to place a great deal of faith in the objectivity of those select and elite members of mediaeval English society doing the translating.

In my opinion the King James version is indeed dated but it's still a great translation. That is not really an issue, anyway. For a lot has been discovered since the King James version was written, and what's been discovered tells us nothing has changed in regards to what the King James version tells us about homosexuality and what the more modern translations say about homosexuality.

40 posted on 11/24/2005 8:45:18 AM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: bigsigh

"[O]ur ancestors established their system of government on morality and religious sentiment. Moral habits, they believed, cannot safely be trusted on any other foundation than religious principle, nor any government be secure which is not supported by moral habits."
-- Daniel Webster, American Jurist and Senator

Of all the dispositions and habits which least to political
prosperity, Religion and morality are indespensable supports.
In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism who should
labor to subvert these great Pilliars of human happiness."
-- George Washington (Farewell Address, 19 September 1796)

"The only assurance of our nation's safety is to lay our foundation in morality and religion."
-- Abraham Lincoln

"[W]hen People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders." --Samuel Adams

"History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay have not passed into political and economic decline. There has been either a spiritual awakening to overcome the moral lapse, or a progressive deterioration leading to ultimate national disaster." -- General Douglas MacArthur

"It is impossible that a nation of infidels or idolaters should be a nation of free men. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom." --Patrick Henry

"The moral principles and precepts contained in the scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible." Noah Webster, compiler of the American Dictionary of the English Language in 1828.

“We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us ... to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” -James Madison

And finally, to disprove the false argument that basic morality as taught in the Bible is somehow sectarian:

"Reading, reflection and time have convinced me that the interests of society require the observation of those moral precepts ... in which all religions agree." --Thomas Jefferson

Happy Thanks Giving!


41 posted on 11/24/2005 8:46:42 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Anglophilestine

Anything topical to post or are you simply disagreeing by method of ambiguous implication?


42 posted on 11/24/2005 8:52:43 AM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: Savage Beast

I agree that not all homosexuals are the same although I in no way say the Bible is wrong. I am searching to understand and hope that someday the medical field will uncover what I see as a misconnect somewhere.

Some are merely seeking depravity and new thrills.

But some seem to have a malfunction in the puberty process IMHO. This can be seen in the young.

What young teenager would willingly give up chasing girls as other teens do, would willingly make himself an outcast from his good male friends and seek to ruin his goal of a future family?

I think all is fine as these young men reach puberty. They run with the same friends until gradually their friends pair off with girlfriends and their interests diverge. The questionable male notes that he is merely friends with the girls and does not have the ability to sustain a boy/girl relationship (since underneath it all there is little sexual interest there).

The questionable male than begins to feel left out as he just wants the male friendships and the girlfriends are always taking the friends away. He begins to feel very different and eventually comes across others not obsessed with the boyfriend/girlfriend connection. Then trouble begins.

And I tend to think this is because these questionable males did not have the "switch" that always occurs in the regular male that suddenly makes him notice girls with interest. Somehow this "switch" failed to occur.

This also is shown in the fact that the gay males tend to appear stuck in the young adolescence stage. Their interests do not mature as rapidly as the other males.

No flames necessary here as I in no way wish to further the homosexual side. I just feel that there is more going on there than just the normal seeking perversion.

Another reason? How would any normal males be willing to forego women the rest of their lives? No way. So therefore there is a difference between those that do and those that don't. And I just don't buy that it is always a conscious choice each and every day for perversion over the normal. Don't think any male would do that. Maybe bisexuals - but not all homosexuals.

So this comes down to not hate for them but sadness that they have to face this problem over basic human needs.


43 posted on 11/24/2005 8:55:25 AM PST by ClancyJ (God give us the strength to fight the liberal onslaught against our President and our country.)
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To: Luke21

The homosexual activists have been waging war on traditional, basic morality for 30 years. Along with Planned Parenthood/abortion promoters, "sex positive" sex ed, and others. But the homosexual activists are at the vanguard.

You don't think that conservatives should stand up and tell the truth about the "gay" life, that it is immoral, unhealthy, unnatural, and most important - that they can change?

BTW, there are no "Incestors' Pride" Parades, "Adulterers' Pride" Parades, "Bestiophiles' Pride" Parades.

Or "Liars' Pride" Parades, "Extortioners' Pride" Parades. Etc. So the practitioners of other sins don't seem to be taking it to the max in the same manner.


44 posted on 11/24/2005 8:55:48 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: bigsigh
It's not hate speech. It's you trying to impose your religion on the rest of the populace.

Actually it appears you are attempting to impose your homosexual agenda on this thread by using one of the oldest leftist ploys...

45 posted on 11/24/2005 8:55:59 AM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: bigsigh
I guess freedom from government discrimination and from having the religion of others forced upon you didn't count.

Thanx for the selective quotes and psuedohistory lesson.

I'm thankful for the gay friends we have, as I am for all of our friends and the fact that two of them are married has not diminsihed our marriage 1 bit.

Happy Thanksgiving!

46 posted on 11/24/2005 8:56:53 AM PST by bigsigh
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To: DBeers

Actually I don't have an agenda. I decide issues as thy come based upon freedom, equal opportunity and trying not to control the lives of others. Actually.


47 posted on 11/24/2005 8:57:48 AM PST by bigsigh
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To: wtc911
Gay activists will argue vehemently that this will eventually lead to eradication of the next generation of gays. They will demand that gay embryos be protected, ... The feminists and libs will fight just as hard against it. The fight between the gays and the feminazis will tear the democrats apart ...

An interesting hypothesis. I wonder if the gay movement would really cause a schism over this. The (American) gays have to know that without Democratic support, they are dead in the water. Besides, whether there is a gay gene or not (I think the Bible holds 'no'), we all know that many gays do actively recruit the troubled and lost. Fresh meat. Further, and I don't know how prevalent this is, but I thought that gay couples were getting together more and more to exchange DNA and then split up the litter of human babies between the male and female couples. No risk of abortion there. Overall, my guess is that the homosexual lobby simply needs the DEMS too much.

48 posted on 11/24/2005 8:57:54 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: little jeremiah

46 is for you dear.


49 posted on 11/24/2005 8:58:43 AM PST by bigsigh
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To: Forest Keeper

Since gays are only 3% of the population any abortions to avoid a gay child will have impact that they themselves could not overcome through any combination of intra-gay-culture matings of convenience. But until a gay gene is isolated (if ever) it is all idle speculation.


50 posted on 11/24/2005 9:02:24 AM PST by wtc911 (see my profile for how to contribute to a pentagon heroes fund)
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