Dutch Politicans Seek Marijuana Rules (Marijuana farming regulated on the model of tobacco)

Associated Press ^ | Dec. 2, 2005

[Wolfie]

Dutch Politicans Seek Marijuana Rules

Amsterdam, Netherlands -- A broad coalition of political parties unveiled a pilot program Friday to regulate marijuana farming on the model of tobacco, which opponents say would be tantamount to legalizing growing the drug.

Under the test program, to be conducted in the southern city of Maastricht, existing health and safety standards will apply to growers, but they would no longer be the target of police raids or prosecution.

Coffee shops permitted to sell marijuana would be required to provide consumers with information about the health hazards of smoking - similar to tobacco companies - and the chemical content of the marijuana. The shops would also have to say where they bought the marijuana they sell, which proponents say will deter growers from operating dangerous underground greenhouses.

Under current Dutch policy, marijuana and hashish are illegal but police don't prosecute for possession of less than one ounce. Authorities also look the other way regarding the open sale of cannabis in designated coffee shops.

But commercial growing is outlawed, giving rise to a contradictory system in which shop owners have no legal way to purchase their best-selling product.

Dutch mayors along the country's borders have lobbied hardest for the change, which they say would make it more difficult for German and Belgian drug tourists to smuggle large quantities of marijuana out of the country.

"It will be possible to trace where cannabis is grown, and where it's sold," said conservative lawmaker Frans Weekers.

Opponents, however, have argued that regulation could open the door to outright legalization of marijuana in a country that already has some of Europe's most lenient drug laws. Prime Minister Jan-Peter Balkenende and his ruling Christian Democrat Party said regulating marijuana cultivation would set the Netherlands another step apart from the rest of the continent.

"This experiment would be at odds with Dutch law, and there's a legal problem" internationally, as well, Balkenende said.

The Justice Ministry has ordered an investigation into whether the plan would violate international law. The findings are expected within several days.

Weekers said, however, that the current policy is "leading to increasing problems."

"There comes a moment when you say, 'Now we have to take the next step,'" he said. "If this pilot program works, and we can show to everyone that it's an improvement, then you have a good argument to take to foreign governments."

The coalition of parties gave Balkenende until Dec. 14 to implement the testing program, after which lawmakers said they will introduce a bill in parliament to do it. They said about two-thirds of parliament members support the plan.

[Redgirl]

Do they prohibit "Downtown Brown" from being sold? :)

[Gordongekko909]

Legalizing marijuana is probably the best way to do away with its use. Think about it: Big Marijuana would be subject to the same regular hassles as Big Tobacco! Those weed dealers think they have it tough now? They think that rival dealers with guns are a pain? Try class-action lawsuits and campaign finance shakedowns.

[CzarNicky]

just what they need more endless subsidies.

[Brian328i]

lmao, right on

[Gordongekko909]

Damn, I forgot punitive taxation.

[Wolfie]

Think about it: Big Marijuana would be subject to the same regular hassles as Big Tobacco!

Yeah, I can see where that would stack up against prison.

[libertyman]

Thanks for the ping....that's excellent news!

Now only if we could see on the horizon a change in the ludicrous--& blatantly unconstitutional--federal marijuana laws here in DEAland.

[TKDietz]

What subsidies? This is something they should have done a long time ago. They've allowed open marijuana sales at a retail level for more than three decades now and per capita marijuana use rates have always been lower than ours. The problem with their system is that since there was no mechanism for legally importing or producing marijuana and hash domestically, the product has always been smuggled in and/or produced domestically by organized crime types. That only provides major operating capital for those involved with trafficking in hard drugs and other criminal activity and leads to corruption in law enforcement and other government offices and a myriad of other problems.

If they are going to allow what is in effect legal retail sales they might as well allow for a legal and regulated industry to supply the retail outlets. You know they claim even these retail outlets aren't legal there but I've been to Holland. These coffeeshops often have neon marijuana leaves out front. Some display their wares behind glass like a bakery or candy store would. All have menus listing the various types of hash and marijuana they have for sale along with teas and baked products containing marijuana. The menus often give glowing descriptions of the various products and waiters are quick to make sales pitches for menu items just like they were selling food at a restaurant. Police regularly visit these establishments to make sure underage and sales and hard drug sales aren't taking place in them. They have signs posted in these places saying that people who even talk about hard drugs will be asked to leave. Some of these places are even chains with franchises in several cities. The government just says they aren't technically legal to skirt around international drug laws. If they are going to go this far they might as well do the same for production and wholesale sales. It certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

[CzarNicky]

1 it was a joke.

2 with all the subsidies farmers get I can only imagine that pot farmer will be lining up with their hands out as well.

3 it was a joke.

[robertpaulsen]

"But commercial growing is outlawed, giving rise to a contradictory system in which shop owners have no legal way to purchase their best-selling product."

Well, duh! This just now occurred to them? None of the lawmakers way back when asked where the "coffee" shops were supposed to get their dope?

Typical "camel's nose" legislation -- initally introduce a publicly acceptable law, flawed and known to fail, then claim the law isn't working and adjust it to what was desired all along.

[robertpaulsen]

"and per capita marijuana use rates have always been lower than ours."

And this is due strictly to marijuana legalization? Cultural differences don't come into play at all, huh? The fact that Dutch teens use alcohol at twice the rate of U.S. teens doesn't indicate that maybe their culture prefers alcohol over pot?

Does the fact that the Japanese drink more sake than Americans mean our laws need to change?

[TKDietz]

From another article covering the same topic:

"After 30 years of tolerating marijuana, its rates in the Netherlands is in the middle of international norms. According to data from various governments compiled by Trimbos, the Netherlands’ Institute for Health and Addiction, Dutch rates are higher than those in Scandinavia but lower than those in the United States and Britain."

Per capita marijuana use rates are in the middle of international norms. They're middle of the road for Europe too. Culturally, they aren't that different from us, but you can try to make them sound night and day different if you want to go that way. But as we look to the rest of the world, even their neighbors, we still don't see that their policies have caused them to have crazy marijuana use rates. If legalizing marijuana was such a terrible idea that would cause everyone to start smoking it, Dutch marijuana use rates wouldn't be middle of the road, they'd be the highest in the world.

[robertpaulsen]

But that doesn't answer the question of why the Japanese drink more sake than we do. Why is that, TKDietz? Is it our laws?

[robertpaulsen]

And that doesn't answer the question of why twice the percentage of Dutch teens drink alcohol compared to U.S. teens. Why is that, TKDietz? Is it our laws?

[TKDietz]

To some extent, yes. In Europe drinking ages tend to be much lower than here (16 when I lived in Germany) and they aren't really enforced. You see young teens at bars there drinking. It's accepted, and really kind of encouraged. In fact they think it's healthy to get young people accustomed to drinking earlier. They think of themselves as being much better able to handle booze than Americans because of it too, because of the way they do things and the way they view drinking. That's not allowed here. Adults get in big trouble here for providing teens alcohol or for even letting them drink.

As for Japs drinking sake, so what.

[robertpaulsen]

Sounds like a cultural thing.

[TKDietz]

Maybe so, RP. No doubt we aren't exactly the same as the Dutch. We aren't that different from them either. Certainly we are more culturally similar to them than we are to the Japanese, Chinese, Pakistanis, and so on. But it is true that we are different and it is true that just because their more tolerant marijuana policies work well for them doesn't mean that they would work as well for us. That is true. It's still interesting to see how their polices have worked for them though. It's interesting to see that the sky hasn't fallen there. It's interesting to see that despite virtually legal retail markets for marijuana, not only do they not have super high per capita marijuana use rates, but in fact use rates there are middle of the road by western standards. We should study what they do and at least consider that it might work here. It's certainly very possible that it would. What we do surely doesn't seem to work worth a flip. Our use rates are higher than their use rates and there is absolutely no shortage of cheap marijuana on our streets. Maybe they have the right idea.

[Wolfie]

I think that'll come about when enough of the old farts die off.