Citizen MD [American Medical Association op-ed against Intelligent Design]

American Medical Association ^ | 12/02/2005 | Paul Costello

[balrog666]

Damn! Same old players; same old trolls.

[Virginia-American]

...lest a grant find its way into the ID crowd. ...

What would the IDers do with a grant? Could you please list some research that they propose that's on hold for lack of money? Why can't DI or ICR or Rev. Moon or the Wahhabis or suchlike fund research until the "theory" is developed enough to convince biologists?

[Rudder]

There has been a documentary playing on one of the independent channels over the last couple of weeks with that very purpose with respect to physics. I think it was "What Do We Know?".

What's its POV? Tell me more...

[Rudder]

Have you read Behe's testimony at the Dover trial? This guy's is either a charlatan or mentally ill. His "operational definition" of 'irreducible complexity' was (I paraphrase) 'You can tell if it's irreducibly complex by observing the purposive intention of the components."

Okay, you write the research proposal...

[furball4paws]

No, that's Fleeing Cur and he doesn't appear to be here right now.

[Gumlegs]

"I know it when I see it" works for the Supreme Court ... under certain circumstances.

[furball4paws]

There are 2 Sci Fi types.

1. Science Based Fiction - say Sagan's "Contact" which I think he borrowed from Gunn's "The Listeners". There is a very limited place for this stuff in science class. Gives students a real example of how some of the theoretical stuff might be applied. Jules Verne was certainly a far sighted kind of guy in this area.

2. Science Fantasy - belongs in a Fiction class and nowhere else.

"2001" has some of both so could be discussed.

[Rudder]

"I know it when I see it" works for the Supreme Court ... under certain circumstances.

Please elaborate.

[balrog666]

What's its POV? Tell me more...

I only caught the first 5 minutes of it when I taped something else but it seemed to be just asking physicists, philosophers and laymen, just "what do we know" and letting them talk for a minute. It may have led in to something else but I can't seem to find a reference to it now.

[PatrickHenry]

There are 2 Sci Fi types.

More than that. The SF community has two great categories: SF and fantasy (sword and sorcery). Within the SF category there's "hard science fiction," which extrapolates from genuine science, and there's a load of other stuff, some of the subcategories: sociological, dystopias, "space opera" (like Star Wars), etc.

[Virginia-American]

Another way IDer and Creationists are liberals: They're pushing an affirmative action program. I don't see much difference between teaching ID and teaching Afrocentric history or Ebonics.

[From many - one.]

Not in any science class I teach.

[b_sharp]

We could invent our own if you like. Trolls that is.

[Rudder]

I can't seem to find a reference to it now.

Thanks for looking. Please let me know if you come across more.

[b_sharp]

Did you misspell 'Fleaing Cur'?

Is the cur male or female? (I know it's not PC, but I'm an old fart and generally take it easier on females)

[b_sharp]

Finally, somebody who knows the difference.

It drives me crazy when people include drivel like Star Wars in with Science Fiction.

[furball4paws]

My dictionary doesn't attach a sex to cur. I suppose you could use curette and cure' to distinguish them.

[From many - one.]

Hey!

I thought Star Wars was great fun and the cantina at Mos Eisley was right out of Astounding Science Fiction ('50s versioof Analog).

[b_sharp]

"My dictionary doesn't attach a sex to cur. I suppose you could use curette and cure' to distinguish them.

I suspect nothing will cure the cur's currishness like a currette applied to the cur's colonic cavity. I'm glad I'm not a religious man, I'd hate to be the cure applying the cure.

[b_sharp]

Yes, Star Wars was great fun, especially when you take the time to figure out where all the ideas come from. But it ain't science fiction!

I stand by my opinion. :^P