Posted on 12/03/2005 6:18:54 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
You know, I don't have a horse in this race (I don't really believe in either) but the vigor with which opponents of ID are fighting this seems to be a bit extreme and over-the-top of late.
Since when ID professed destruction of Darwinism? Since when a questioned theory meant its death? Since when a theory was entitled? That's no theory then, it's buffonery.
Darwinists have only themselves to blame for the scientific establisment's entitlement mentality buffonery. Sellers of products have a conflict of interest with the product, and, yes, science at any level is not perfect, it's something to be sold as is and is bought or not, period.
The abuse of the word science by scientists in order to justify its public funding is ridiculous. This is not about Darwinism, these are metaphores about public schools and pet public funding of subjects deemed "scientific" by a closed circuit of beneficiaries from working in those programs.
Are we trapped in a new period of history when science, once again, is in for the fight of its life?
evolution versus creationism “flare-ups”
You appear to be referring to an admittedly deplorable incident in Massachusetts. However, two wrongs don't make a right.
That's because you don't have a horse in the race, whereas we are fighting for the integrity of what we've spend a large part of our lives and our professional careers doing. One very important element of practical politics is to be very wary of the core issues of others. Evolution is one among many issues for the religious right, and less important, surely, than abortion or gay marriage; it's an absolutely core issue for scientists, particularly biological scientists. When a dog snarls at you, particularly one of those back-of-the-throat snarls, it's time to back off.
to challenge accepted scientific theory that collides with religious beliefs.
How many times are you going to reply to one post?
The A.M.A. is a self-serving political whore. I've been practicing medicine for 26 years and I've yet to hear anything really substantive (that I agree with) come out of that forum.
How do you figure? It's the same as the church telling Galileo not to teach that the earth revolves around the sun, or at least to also teach the earth centric model. Do you think the science community should meet this with a half-hearted, ho-hum defense?
There does appear to be a religious method of "shunning" any and all that question a supposed theory.
Being blinded by their materialist worldview, evolutionists cannot explain the genesis of information or intelligence let alone acknowledge the all-important role that these immaterial factors play in the development of life. Wholly bereft of any argument based in science evolutionists are forced to resort to personally attacking the people who raise such important questions.
You and your fellow evolutionists are in trouble, RWP, because your theory sucks. The more honest among you (Crick, Denton, Kauffman et al) have admitted it. It has an enormous and embarrassing gap that you can only fill by pleading 1) it came from somewhere else (which merely begs the question), or that something magical happened (the Santa Fe group), or by completely ignoring it as if ignorance were a sufficient explanation.
And if you can't answer it, you'll be damned if you'll allow anyone else to try, hence these feeble screechings from your allies in the AMA and related bodies that are quite obviously attempting not to join the debate but to intimidate others into silence.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Frankly, in the end I do not care if it is theory A, B or C, I just see some strange hypocrisy... ie. only when it touches scientists' wallets or stature do we see them coming out the closet.
This deplorable "incident" is ongoing at hundreds of schools nowadays, doing "sex-ed" classes that have nothing bilogical nor scientific about them, but pure social feelings based.
If the AMA were worried about science in school, they'd destroy the unions, the NEA and the retard teacher certification programs as well as flushed public schools of all the crap bogus curriculum they provide. ID is a drop in the bucket. And it's funny it is the RELIGIOUS and NOT THE SCIENTISTS who complain about curriculums and standards, when it should be the latter taking the lead apparenlty, but apparently they made a disgrace of their own tenures because the obessession for the title was meant to care for them, not for the care of the title itself.
I'm a flight instructor and can teach anyone from age 5 to 99 to fly most anything, from bullets to jet airplanes in two languages, but retarded idiots who can't even speak well or write English insist they can teach French better than I because they have the "certificate credentials". Schools will not hire me and protect retards. Lawyers and cops will sue me coz I handle a gun in front of kids and let them touch it supervized, while doctors of the AMA stand there and blame me for exposing kids to "dangerous guns and science". It's ridiculous.
No, what this is about is Marxist theory: matter precedes thought with "Darwinism" used as a trojanhorse code word for instituting slavery by the flesh and materials. To me, matter is meaningless without, yes, a meaning behind it: ie. a bird with chicks is not necessarily a mother of the chicks, but a man properly feeding those chicks is more a mother to them. That however flies in the face of race based entitlement mentalities who try to insist that Darwinism is at the basis of the "fact" that "women make better mothers", or lions can't raise calves.
Great post! I'll ping my short list until PH gets here.
"Some chemicals bubbled happily in a rock crevice in on a paleolithic earthscape. An aimless bolt of lightning struck and the chemicals said, 'I got it! let's become DNA!"
You know you stopped making sense before you finished your first reply to this thread and haven't improved any since then.
You have to perhaps consider that the subject of the debate is a political movement disguised as science which is saying, "Naturalistic explanations are impossible and will never be found, so we might as well just officially punt and say 'Goddidit!'"
You don't learn anything from a "science" like that. It has no place in science class. Thus, the opposition will probably be nearly total from those with a brain.
The main pusher of ID, an organization called the Discovery Institute, has admitted that ID has no classroom-ready content directly regarding ID. What they want to rush into class now is something called "the controversy," which is a collection of recycled creationist arguments against evolution with some minor new wrinkles by Behe and Dembski.
In other words, the bag of ID is still empty just now, but we want to throw in a grab-bag of old, discredited screeches that another theory is wrong. This cannot be justfied on the grounds of science education, so why do it at all?
When ID does something to increase the sum of human knowledge, they can put it in science class.
Somehow it seems that the people with agendas at AMA have taken on "saving" the world. Rather a large task for so few, that are qualified only in their own mind for such a chore.
Perhaps it is best they concern themselves on more fitting exertions such as treating their patients, and somehow I suspect the world will keep on revolving if not evolving.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.