Posted on 12/03/2005 9:06:48 AM PST by ncountylee
Of course the average is going up. For every millionaire that gets put into the equation it offsets a couple of hundred people whose wages have dropped.
Also, just because wages have gone up 2% doesn't mean that Americans have 2% more buying power. For most, the rising cost of health care offsets that.
Tne next lie is that "they are not assimilating" despite overwhelming evidence, documented here before that the rate of language acquisition, workforce integration, intermarriage outside their race/culture, and every other benchmark (except for university degrees.
What "overwhelming evidence"? I have not seen any.
Counting only Latinos who dropped out after engaging the American education system yields a rate of about 15 percent among 16- to 19-year-olds. That is good news. The bad news is that this dropout rate is twice as high as the dropout rate for comparable non-Hispanic whites.From here.
You want to gripe about hospitals going broke? Look at Yazoo City MS (very few hispanics in YC, by the way, this mostly addressed blacks). The poor and indigent learned to use the hospital ER as their primary health care.
You cite one hospital and on FR there have been numerous articles posted chronicling the closure of hospitals all through California, Arizona and Nevada. We are even funding (through the feds) hospitals in Mexico and the hispanic immigrants are still overwhelming hospitals all across America. Go to an emergency room on a Friday night and see who is there.
By the way, if they were truly assimilating then our police officers, firemen, nurses, doctors, DMV employees, etc. wouldn't have to learn spanish to accommodate them. Further, my company would be offering them classes in Englis instead of offering us lessons in spanish.
...if I can get a commitment from the immigraphobes not to post the same accusations again, if we agree that the data on the special file poste refutes it. Sound like a deal?
Depends. If you have more than one source confirming any one point of contention I might agree. However, we will consider the source, as well.
Let's try Economics 101.
When you increase the supply of something, what happens ? The price drops. When you increase the supply of low and semi skilled labor by throwing open the borders to the third world what happens ? Wages for low and semi skilled labor drop. Which is exactly what happenned.
This basic common sense is obvious to those "Marxist" blue collar America workers you despise who's only crime is to put their families and communities ahead of the "free market". That is why support for free trade and open borders vanishes the closer you get to American workers who actually have to compete with third world cheap labor. You know. The kind who have been practically driven out of the construction industry by illegals.
You babble about "economies" prospering. People who live off of returns on investment and corporate profits have prospered because of globalization and cheap labor. People who actually have to live off of paychecks have seen their real salaries adjusted for inflation drop. When you average Carly Fiorina's bonuses with Joe Sixpack's paycheck as you have brainlessly done it looks just hunky dory on paper. What has actually happenned is a tranfer of wealth from Joe Sixpack to Carly Fiorina.
This isn't brain surgery. It is obvious to every America who actually is supporting a family on a paycheck instead of living in a libertarian fantasy world.
That and more are all excellent points!
RE: "What has actually happened is a transfer of wealth from Joe Six-pack to Carly Fiorina."
Glancing through a few posts I noticed that some pointed out that wages have risen. True.
However I'd suggest to those resting on that fact that they take a look at other BLS tables; to wit, the distribution of aggregate income by quintile. Only one group's share has been rising for years if I remember correctly.
From an econ 101 standpoint I suppose there's nothing wrong with that -- but it ain't all economics that make up a nation.
Speaking of Ms Carly "Americans have no right to a job" Fiorina a rumor was circulated that she may run for California Lt. Gov. with Gov. Schwarzenkennedy's backing thus stabbing conservative Republican McClintock in the back. It's what Arnold does.
Once upon a time body builder and muscle man magazines were the sodomite "Playboy" and Arnie would pose naked in them.
Sorry, I'm not a Bushbot and have criticized Bush's policies, especially his pathetic stance on border security.
Bush says it isn't amnesty, then he goes on to describe an amnesty program. Congress allocated money for 2,000 border patrol. The Bush administration hired 200. Bush IS a man of his word. He's keeping his word to Presidente Fox.
Any illegal immigration or guest-worker plan has to go through Congress anyway. The thing is, Bush has heard from the base and is finally doing something about the borders. That alone tells me that he is serious and is doing something about it.
Bush re-named the amnesty program a "guest worker" program, but it will only fly for John Kerry followers and gullible Bushbots like you.
(Game show wrong answer buzzer) - "Aaannndddtt!" I'm not a Bushbot, but openly criticizing Bush on the borders without listening to what he proposes isn't going to help matters any. I don't support Bush's guest-worker plan. But I do believe him when he says it's time to stregthen the borders. And I do concede that there has to be some type of strict, limited guest-worker plan that biometrically ID illegals and force them to return home within a reasonable time frame.
Exactly. I don't support McCain/Fatso bill either.
and you wrote:
Of course the average is going up. For every millionaire that gets put into the equation it offsets a couple of hundred people whose wages have dropped.
Tell ya what. Look up the statistical definition of "mean" and apply that to "mean avg income" and try that one again.
Tell me what a mean is, and we can talk further. You clearly don't understand the data enough to talk sensibly about it. Don't let that stop you, though. It clearly hasn't yet.
You respond: You cite one hospital and on FR there have been numerous articles posted chronicling the closure of hospitals all through California, Arizona and Nevada. We are even funding (through the feds) hospitals in Mexico and the hispanic immigrants are still overwhelming hospitals all across America. Go to an emergency room on a Friday night and see who is there.
It is hard to interact with a reply that stupid. Look, I said that hospitals go broke BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF WILL BY LOCAL POLITICIANS/MUNICIPALITIES TO DENY TREATMENT FOR FRIVOLOUS OR NOT EMERGENCY CARE. I then cited two hospitals in two separate locations who do that, and then favorably cited PROP 200 as an example of what locals can do to stop puking money. There are others. For you to come back and say "doh, yeah but how about all those hospitals going broke because all the non-emergency hispanics use them for non-emergency cases" reveals that you either didn't read what you said you did, or you didn't understand what you read, but just felt compelled to comment on it anyway. Not understanding things is not horrible. I don't understand string theory in physics very well. However, that is usually a clue for me not to make an ass of myself arguing over the nature of physical matter because I once stubbed my toe and it felt "hard."
OK, I will say what I really mean. Anyone who can look at the posts and infer that I believe that anyone who doesn't agree with my "grand scheme" is "dumb as dirt" or a Marxist is, in in fact, "dumb as dirt."
There are a variety of solutions to the border. I myself do not favor a "wide open border" and it is a plain lie to say I do. Even if I did, I believe the answer to the border situtation is going to involve compromise by lots of different people.
It is impossible to deny that the most vocal people on immigration threads are absolutely fixated on the silly idea of deporting 10 million plus people and then building a wall as a FIRST STEP in getting control of our borders. No compromise is possible, and anything else is "selling out to big business" or some other synaptically deficient nonsense.
I am not big business (unless you count 4 employees as "big"), am not a lawyer, and don't have a business that has an economic stake in this at all. It is not personal from that perspective, but it is common sense that such a "solution" is economically stupid, politically unfeasible, morally abhorrent, a repudiation of free market principles, and is the equivalent of some of the worst howling at the moon dingbats on the left I have seen over at DU.
Yeah, it is just what the Council on Foreign Relations is telling him to do, after all.
Like arguing with a rock.
Tell ya what. Look up the statistical definition of "mean" and apply that to "mean avg income" and try that one again.
I could not find "mean avg. income" as definition because "mean" and "average" are derived the same way and mean the same thing, Mr. Wizard.
Therefore my previous statement stands: Of course the average is going up. For every millionaire that gets put into the equation it offsets a couple of hundred people whose wages have dropped.
This is simply not true. He estimated a LIMITED AND UNEVENLY DISTRIBUTED effect. Some percentages were higher and some lower, depending on the skill level. Did you bother to read the article, or just jerk out one sentence and throw in the link? If you are saying that unskilled labor suffers wage declines due to immigration, say it clearly. Skilled labor (most blue collar jobs today would be classified as skilled) do not fit this. Go back and read the article you cited, plz, and then get back to me.
Where in that paragraph do you cite " two hospitals in two separate locations who do that ( DENY TREATMENT FOR FRIVOLOUS OR NOT EMERGENCY CARE)"?
"doh, yeah but how about all those hospitals going broke because all the non-emergency hispanics use them for non-emergency cases"
I never said anything about non-emergency cases, per se. I was referring to illegal hispanics, millions of them, who work for cash and low wages whose employers don't provide health care, using emergency rooms as primary care as well as emergency care. We pay for that. Not just in taxes but in higher insurance rates. I also noticed that you didn't address my post about our federal govt. providing funding for hospitals in mexico.
It's about millions of hispanic illegals that are getting the same care as I get but they don't have to pay for it. Why? Give me one good reason.
Not understanding things is not horrible.
Apparently it is for you. For, you have miscontrued everything about my post.
In your zeal to condemn everyone who is opposed to millions of illegal hispanics as xenophobes, your mind has become stuck in a groove. Much like an old record player that keeps repeating over and over, "I know everything and everybody else is wrong".
Any thoughts on the distribution of aggregate income as it relates to the income argument in general? To wit, the highest quintile continues to gain year after year. The lower quintiles get a smaller and smaller "share."
How are the quintiles developed? I don't know. Do the lowest quintiles factor in "entitlements?" Probably not, and that would actually increase their share.
Perhaps the distribution of aggregate income is too mundane to interest anyone. I believe it's significant nonetheless.
Is it bad that a greater share of wealth is moving to the wealthiest? As I stated above, as an econ 101 free market principle I there's nothing wrong with that compared to alternatives -- but it ain't all economics that make up a nation.
LOL You're a real piece of work.
No way could anybody infer from your above statement what you think of those who disagree with you! /sarc
I did not in that paragraph, and you are right to call me on it. I cited YC in that post and then later in a couple of posts down I cited Duke Hospital as another example. No matter what I say, or how irritated people may get at what I say, I do not want to be dishonest or misleading in what I say, and I can see from your vantage point how that would be misleading. I do apologize for that.
My point was that local hospitals CAN deny primary care trips to the ER to illegals (and anyone else) if they simply decide to do it. It is not a fed (immigration) issue at all, but one of local control.
I never said anything about non-emergency cases, ..... I was referring to illegal hispanics, ..... using emergency rooms as primary care
"Primary care" is a textbook definition of one aspect of non emvergency care. Please, settle this argument you seem to be having with yourself, and then get back to me when you can continue coherently.
whatever floats your boat.
You are in a bad series of threads, then. A sizeable number of folks here will bleat about the cfr pulling strings and how bush is in the back pocket of some cabal of leadership.
Me? I think there IS no GW Bush. The black helicopters came and got GWB and what we have now is an alien clone......, The only way to defeat them is with Slim Whitman, and that movie about them is NOT correct. You have to play a Slim Whitman record yodeling BACKWARDS to kill them. I saw it on the internet somewhere.
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