Posted on 12/03/2005 9:06:48 AM PST by ncountylee
It is a given in economics that the gap between the rich and the poor is greater in capitalism. A given. Always. No one denies that. In fact, when the economy grows, the rich get WAY richer, as they prosper disproportionately. That is a given, and to wave it about like some dripping Archimedes shrieking "EUREKA!" just shows that these clowns understand nothing of econ itself. The question is whether the "poor" in capitalism are better off than they would be under a "fair" economy. The answer, confirmed by history, is ALWAYS yes. I defy any of these "populists" to find a historical example otherwise.
Sorry, that don't cut it...It may be that most 'skilled labor' are blue collar jobs but most blue collar jobs are definately not skilled labor...And, they are the middle class...
Therefore, when your illegal immigration exodus flood into the country, they affect blue collar workers in general, that's the American middle class, and there's a bunch of them...
That's true...And it's probably a coincidence that everyone in his staff, the Sec of Defense, the Sec of State and even the VP are members of the CFR (not to mention most influential politicians and big media owners)...
All Cabinet heads and their staff are members of the Council on Foreign Relations but what the hey...That doesn't mean any of them or New World Order George Sr has any influence over George W...
It's just a conspracy theory, I tell ya...
There has never before in human history been a "capitalism" in which the factors of production themselves could be shipped overseas or unlimited immigration was tolerated.
Someone who refuses to recognize the most basic law of economics (supply increases...price drops...labor supply increases...wages drop) should look in the mirror carefully before daring to call anyone else a "dumbass".
Once upon a time the inner cities of America were stable working class communities. Then around 1960 the light industrial jobs that blacks held were shipped overseas. Steady employment collapsed. Heroin and gangs came in. Once upon a time a blue collar worker could own a house, have health insurance, send a child to college, go away on vacation, and retire on a pension. How many non-college educated workers (aside from firemen and police officers) can do that now ? So clearly, child, the socioeconomic status of non college educated Americans has gone down in the wake of your kind of "capitalism".
Time did a cover story on the movie's "angry white male," an unemployed southern California engineer, just one of many "victims" of cutbacks in defense spending in the late 1980s and early 1990s. (No surprise Time blamed Rush Limbaugh for creating "angry white males" all over the country.)
You don't have to advocate going over the edge by feeling that we're too close to it.
I have absolute faith in Yankee Ingenuity having benefited from it since W.W.II. Will it create those promised new good-paying jobs in time? That begs the question, will the technology and those jobs stay in America?
Will other Americans really be asked, Do you want this existing job? (At a wage that takes into account the cost of living.) Or will it just be "guest workers" everywhere?
Relatively few Americans are affected now but the number grows and grows.
All forms of "cheap" labor is a done deal IMO -- even if it takes a Waco or two to the get the message to the angry Americans (it's not just white males) and their "vigilantes," no matter which Party is in power.
The fat Elvis has sung and left the building. The only choice just may be meeting Elvis and his body guards in the alley.
Another out, a growing recognition in Washington that free tradin' transfers of technology, wealth, and production to Red China IS STUPID!
Time to put national interest ahead of textbook econ 101 and time to ask just how much "cheap" migrant labor can taxpayers afford to subsidize for business -- subsidies ain't free market econ 101.
Elvis is not stupid, greedy but not stupid.
Both my cousins, my brother in law (who owns his own business installing granite counter tops and makes more money than I do), my daughter (who has an IQ of 68, finished the 8th grade, and works for 9 dollars an hour). One of my cousins is a tv engineer (nothing past high school, learned on the job), the other repairs coke machines. Three of those people live in Alabama, one here in NC. All have savings of substantial amounts for where they are in life (I know, cause I have invested all their moneys for them or given them advice in the past).
People like you are not only bitter little shriveled up prunes, whining about the rich oppressive "man" who always keeps you down....., you are just plaing BORING, as well.
Argue with the economist who did the study, then. He was the one who defined it that way, not me.
OOOOOOOHHHHHHHH, I see now. "THIS TIME its different!" yeah, that's the ticket. hint: trade the markets long enough and you will hear that alot.... "this time" things are just different than they have ever been, and it will be a total collapse...., or an unending boom. The old ways of thinking just don't work anymore...... Did I mention that I shorted Enron at 72 and JUSU at 150 for precisely that reason? I read Skillen's analysis of energy markets and how "this time" things were different, we were in a new paradigm and the old rules didn't apply anymore?
there is a reason why the "old rules" got to be old.
Only if you hang out on FR immigration threads.......
I am happily oppressing the masses over here, myself, gorging myself on the ill gotten gains robbed from the proletariat.
Well don't believe everything you read then...Apparently any moron with an opinion can be an economist...Or even a president, if there's enough money behind him...
No arguments from me on that one. Someone cited Borjas's study, as an example of "real" wages declining. He is a Harvard economist (which automatically renders him suspect in my opinion, I trust Wharton and University of Chicago, although there are good people at most schools...., you just have to look for em) and a fave for people who mine for quotes on how immigration is harmful to us.
To be frank, I am still looking at his article. He HAS reversed himself on this position.
Like I said, what you want is a feudal sort of society like Latin America where you can reduce the American standard of living to third world level and live behind fortified walls.
And what does your silly little anecdote have to do with what has happenned to most blue collar Americans ?
Fascinating how the stock libertarian answer to every question when pressed is, "I've got mine so screw you."
Nobody denies that the globalist free trade economy is great for people who live off of investments and corporate profits. And that is all you've said. Never once have you atempted to argue that it works for people who live off of paychecks.
Look, you are a libertarian. Behind your rhetoric about "freedom" what you want is a society where people like you can live in almost feudal levels of privilege behind fortified walls with the world as your brothel. Just admit it. Why pretend that you give a damn about America at all ?
You asked for examples of blue collar people experiencing the American dream.
I gave you four of them.
why are you bitching about it?
You know, for a humorless, shriveled up bitter prune, you are kind of cute when you get mad.
it was a JOKE Gomer. sheesh.
You gave examples of four blue collar people who by sheer luck no longer live on paychecks.
Huh?
Three of them definitely have paychecks. My daughter works for a grocery store, my two cousins both work for companies. One works for coca cola and one works for some religious tv station.
My brother in law by "sheer luck" started his own business after working for others for 18 years.
Not only a bore, but a tendentious bore.
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