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To: Right Wing Professor; betty boop; cornelis; hosepipe; TXnMA
Thank you for your reply!

Supernatural is by definition what is not natural.

To put what I said at post 570 back into context (emphasis mine):

Your theory begins with a false presupposition – that that which is not supernatural is natural.

To the contrary, I assert that the natural is part of what you would consider "supernatural" and indeed, the natural declares that God exists. For instance, that there was a beginning, that the universe is intelligible at all, the unreasonable effectiveness of math, the existence of information in the universe, that order has arisen out of chaos (the void), willfulness, autonomy, semiosis and so on.

What you are speaking to is causation. Where you have looked you have found physical causation. Science depends on physical causation to understand nature, so that is not surprising.

You also asked for the verses from Enoch that speak to the reign of King Herod the Great. The entire issue may be understood in context here: Translation of Enoch from 1882 by Schodde (pdf) The more current translation (Charlesworth edition of the Pseudepigrapha) is not available online.

If you search on "Herod" you can peruse the various points in the manuscript where the translator interpreted the "prophesy" and thus dated it after the beginning of the reign of King Herod the Great. A more thorough discussion is around page 59.

In sum, chapters 89 and 90 of Enoch are a review or preview (prophesy) of Jewish history - at about 90:9, the 'great horn' is described which is interpreted to mean Judas Maccabi (first few years of the reign of King Herod the Great 37 B.C.)

621 posted on 12/13/2005 11:05:12 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
To the contrary, I assert that the natural is part of what you would consider "supernatural" and indeed, the natural declares that God exists. For instance, that there was a beginning, that the universe is intelligible at all, the unreasonable effectiveness of math, the existence of information in the universe, that order has arisen out of chaos (the void), willfulness, autonomy, semiosis and so on.

Supernatural Of or pertaining to existence outside the natural world; not attributable to natural forces.

None of what you list above is a phenomenon.

What you are speaking to is causation. Where you have looked you have found physical causation. Science depends on physical causation to understand nature, so that is not surprising.

Forget science. I know of no phenomenon that cannot be attributed to causation by elements of the natural world. The natural world is a closed system, in as far as I can detect.

In sum, chapters 89 and 90 of Enoch are a review or preview (prophesy) of Jewish history - at about 90:9, the 'great horn' is described which is interpreted to mean Judas Maccabi (first few years of the reign of King Herod the Great 37 B.C.)

Judas Maccabeus died in 161 B.C.E.. If the 'prophesy' refers to him, it's consistent with the carbon dating of the m/s, and is hardly a prophesy.

638 posted on 12/13/2005 11:23:54 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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