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Minutemen at the Polls (Last week's special election in California was a sign of things to come)
The American Prowler ^ | John Tabin | John Tabin

Posted on 12/12/2005 1:03:53 PM PST by nickcarraway

Last week California State Representative John Campbell won a special election to fill the U.S. House of Representatives seat vacated when Chris Cox was appointed to chair the Securities and Exchange Commission this summer. But Campbell's victory, which was never in doubt, wasn't the headline of the election. Jim Gilchrist, founder of the volunteer border-watching group known as the Minutemen, ran as an independent on a border-security platform, and garnered about a quarter of the vote, 10% higher than his showing in the 19-candidate "jungle primary" in October. Campbell's share of the vote dropped a percentage point from the primary, to 45%. In fact, Gilchrist actually won among voters who cast ballots on election day; Campbell needed absentee ballots to put him over the top.

Lawmakers in Washington are taking this political signal very seriously. Before the election, Bob Novak reported that the sense among Republicans on Capitol Hill was that "a strong showing by Gilchrist -- anything above 20 to 25 percent" would doom the guest-worker program favored by President Bush. After the election, an anonymous congressman told John Fund that "members will be spooked at the thought of primary challengers or third-party candidates draining votes from them with an immigrant-bashing platform."

As is often the case, arguments over illegal immigration and legal immigration are being commingled (and both sides are guilty of blurring the lines). Legal immigration is a boon to America. According to estimates in a paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research by economists Gianmarco I. P. Ottaviano of the University of Bologna and Giovanni Peri of the University of California, Davis titled "Rethinking the Gains From Immigration: Theory and Evidence From the U.S.," immigration in the 1990s increased the average wage of American-born workers by 2.7 percent. This runs counter to many assumptions about the economic effects of immigration; Harvard economist George J. Borjas, whose work has been quite influential in immigration politics, has estimated that immigration in the '90s depressed American-born workers' wages by 3%.

But Ottaviano and Peri have the better economic model. Rather than treating labor as a standard commodity (supply goes up, price goes down), they account for the fact that even moderately skilled labor is not perfectly interchangeable -- a Chinese cook is not the same as a Texas barbecue chef, as Virginia Postrel memorably put it in a New York Times column on this topic last month. And rather than treating demand for labor as if it is independent of supply, they account for the fact that businesses respond to an expanded labor supply by increasing their capital investments: As Peri put it to Postrel, "investment adjusts not to keep fixed the amount of capital but to keep fixed the return to capital,'' so ''more workers means more business.''

A company that hires immigrants to make more widgets will hire more American-born widget-salesman to move them. In Peri and Ottaviano's model, the effect on wages is positive for 91% of the American-born workforce and negative only for the 9% of American-born workers who are high school dropouts. (Stay in school, kids.)

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS ANOTHER kettle of fish. Many Americans are rightly horrified by this country's inability to enforce its immigration laws, and Gilchrist's strong showing is a symptom of the mood. Gilchrist's Minutemen have been unfairly caricatured in much of the press -- one AP dispatch led with the description of one of the group's operations as "an exercise some fear could attract racist crackpots." But still the Minutemen have a 54% percent favorable rating and only a 22% unfavorable rating, according to Rassmussen Reports. Last spring President Bush dismissed them as "vigilantes" (though they've broken no laws), but he and his political allies ought to take a second look at the Minutemen and their works.

The Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus, led by Tom Tancredo of Colorado, issued a staff report in June titled "Results and Implications of the Minuteman Project" indicating that during a month-long period of intense activity in Arizona, the volunteers demonstrated some important facts about border enforcement. For one thing, adding manpower at the border is quite effective: "An average six additional personnel on station per border mile proved effective in dramatically reducing illegal crossings." For another, adding manpower at the border does not require the two years of training that the Border Patrol officers receive: "[T]he Minutemen demonstrated that auxiliary personnel can be trained and deployed in three days. The lesser duties of supporting higher-trained Border Patrol and other state and federal law enforcement agencies does not require the full legal skills of Border Patrol agents."

It would take 36,000 additional personnel to seal the Southern border. Tancredo and Gilchrist favor using the National Guard for this purpose, but that would be a dubious use of military resources: The permeability of the Mexican border, while dismaying, is not the national security emergency that many immigration hawks portray it as. As Richard Miniter persuasively argues in Disinformation: 22 Media Myths That Undermine the War on Terror, it is very unlikely that terrorists would enter the U.S. through Mexico. Canada has Muslim communities that radicals can blend into and move through freely; Mexico does not. (The Canadians, thankfully, have been cooperative in helping beef up border security.) But a new force to support the Border Patrol along the Minuteman model, which could be built up relatively quickly, is well worth pursuing.

The Minutemen don't just operate at the border, and their work in the interior can guide policymakers, too. Minutemen in Virginia, according to a Washington Post report last month, have been photographing day laborers and the contractors who hire them with the intent of creating a database to turn over to the Internal Revenue Service. The IRS should be able to use this information to determine whether employers are following employment-tax laws. It's not a bad strategy for the feds themselves to try out, and may even appeal to liberals who fret over the treatment of "undocumented" workers: As Michelle Cottle put it in an online New Republic column, "why not go after the demand for [illegal] labor at least as vigorously as the supply? In the best cases, these employers are cheating the system by hiring dirt-cheap workers on whom they won't pay taxes. In the worst, they are abusing some of our society's most legally vulnerable members."

A guest-worker program -- including one that provides incentives for illegal immigrants to come out of the shadows -- is a good idea, but a politically injured one. Those who'd like to save it would do well to start by seriously tackling immigration enforcement, without dismissing those who demand as much as racist crackpot vigilantes.

John Tabin is a frequent online contributor to The American Spectator and AmSpecBlog.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Arizona; US: California; US: District of Columbia; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 48th; aliens; gilchrist; immigrantlist; immigration; jimgilchrist; johncampbell

1 posted on 12/12/2005 1:03:54 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway
A guest-worker program -- including one that provides incentives for illegal immigrants to come out of the shadows -- is a good idea, but a politically injured one. Those who'd like to save it would do well to start by seriously tackling immigration enforcement, without dismissing those who demand as much as racist crackpot vigilantes.

Well I can see this guy is biased, and dismiss this liberal crackpot OBL whiner.

2 posted on 12/12/2005 1:09:06 PM PST by rolling_stone (Question Authority!)
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To: nickcarraway
Lawmakers in Washington are taking this political signal very seriously. Before the election, Bob Novak reported that the sense among Republicans on Capitol Hill was that "a strong showing by Gilchrist -- anything above 20 to 25 percent" would doom the guest-worker program favored by President Bush.

My thanks to those with the guts to vote for Gilchrist. Conservatives may save the Republican Party from itself yet.

3 posted on 12/12/2005 1:18:49 PM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are REALLY stupid.)
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To: Carry_Okie

bttt


4 posted on 12/12/2005 1:21:54 PM PST by FOG724 (http://nationalgrange.org/legislation/phpBB2/index.php)
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To: rolling_stone

I think yuo are reading it wrong. He is saying that people who demand seriously tackling immigration enforcement shouldn't be dismissed as racist crackpot vigilantes.


5 posted on 12/12/2005 1:23:52 PM PST by nickcarraway (I'm Only Alive, Because a Judge Hasn't Ruled I Should Die...)
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To: rolling_stone
Well I can see this guy is biased, and dismiss this liberal crackpot OBL whiner

Any discussion of a guest worker program which does not explain in detail how the guests will be either induced or forced to leave the country when their visa expires is just a promotion of a sham amnesty. If they don't tell you how they are going to leave it is because they have no intention that they will ever leave.

That said, the author made lots of other good points and particular he seems to understand that enforcement must come first and he also understands that if the GOP does not get their act together they are going to get hit in the face with a 2x4 at the ballot booth.

6 posted on 12/12/2005 1:24:51 PM PST by jackbenimble
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To: rolling_stone
I think you are missing the author's point. He is saying that those who support unlimited immigration call the Minutemen "racist crackpot vigilantes". The Washington crowd which wants a guest worker program should tackle the immigration enforcement problem instead of just insulting the Minutemen.
7 posted on 12/12/2005 1:27:57 PM PST by KarlInOhio (In memory of Alvin Owen, Thsai-Shai Yang, Yen-I Yang and Yee Chen Lin:the victims of Tookie Williams)
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To: KarlInOhio

the minutemen(sixty second thugs)are not wanted nor are they need here in Arizona.I live five miles from the border and I see the so called minute men screwing with mexican-americans, just because they can,they are bullies,if you don't believe me come on down and check for your self.


8 posted on 12/12/2005 1:33:59 PM PST by beanball
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To: nickcarraway
Many Americans are rightly horrified by this country's inability unwillingness to enforce its immigration laws, and Gilchrist's strong showing is a symptom of the mood.

That sounds like a better description of the problem.

9 posted on 12/12/2005 1:36:31 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: beanball

BS.

They are wanted, needed, and necessary. I live in AZ too, and it's on the verge of border anarchy.

You live 5 miles from the border? Which side?


10 posted on 12/12/2005 1:39:52 PM PST by mobyss
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; A CA Guy; ...

ping


11 posted on 12/12/2005 2:05:52 PM PST by gubamyster
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To: beanball

Okay, I don't believe you. I'm quite sure the liberal media would be all over it if you were telling the truth.


12 posted on 12/12/2005 2:07:31 PM PST by Mulch (tm)
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To: nickcarraway

>>Last spring President Bush dismissed them as "vigilantes" (though they've broken no laws), but he and his political allies ought to take a second look at the Minutemen and their works.<<



Mr.President
Protecting our homes, families and jobs is not vigilantism.


13 posted on 12/12/2005 2:09:45 PM PST by B4Ranch (No expiration date is on the Oath to protect America from all enemies, foreign and domestic.)
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To: Carry_Okie

"Socialism needs two legs on which to stand; a right and a left. While appearing to be in complete opposition to one another, they both march in the same direction."
Paul Proctor


14 posted on 12/12/2005 2:12:23 PM PST by B4Ranch (No expiration date is on the Oath to protect America from all enemies, foreign and domestic.)
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To: gubamyster

Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Support our Minutemen Patriots!

Be Ever Vigilant ~ Bump!


15 posted on 12/12/2005 2:12:55 PM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: beanball

If the US does not take care of the problems caused by illegal immigration, enforcement will be takened over by extremists vigilantes. Any government that suppresses the will of the people will create extremists and violent revolutionists. Especially if the policy will result in the destruction of their future and their children's future. Read your history books. Many of the revolutions do not involve poor desperate people, some are started by middle class people who fear losing their wealth and seeing their children ending up poor.


16 posted on 12/12/2005 2:14:32 PM PST by Fee (`+Great powers never let minor allies dictate who, where and when they must fight.)
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To: nickcarraway
Campbell needed absentee ballots to put him over the top.

Lol! Makes it sound as if voting absentee is something less than voting in person. Third place is exactly where a third party candidate belongs, especially a nutter like Gilchrist.

17 posted on 12/12/2005 2:20:21 PM PST by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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To: nickcarraway

Jim Gilchrist/Minutemen BUMP.

Close the border, build an Israeli-type fence, fine employers of illegals, deport illegals, restrict legal immigration, and return peace and security to our nation.


18 posted on 12/12/2005 2:21:48 PM PST by reelfoot
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To: mac_truck
So are you saying that defending legal immigration is wrong?
19 posted on 12/12/2005 2:24:38 PM PST by Mulch (tm)
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To: beanball
the minutemen(sixty second thugs)are not wanted nor are they need here in Arizona.I live five miles from the border and I see the so called minute men screwing with mexican-americans, just because they can,they are bullies,if you don't believe me come on down and check for your self.

You are full of crap. I live near the border and the Minutemen had a manned observation post less than a mile from my house. I found NOTHING of that which you accuse them. In fact, I saw the opposite. You are a liar. In addition, I know several people who volunteered to serve as Minutemen and they were people from the local community. They are not thugs or bullies, just common people sick to death of the ongoing invasion. Seven of our good Republican legislators in Arizona came down and signed up as Minutemen too. Former Republican Majority Whip Randy Graf, who is running for Congress in District 8, was also a Minuteman Project volunteer. None of these people are thugs or bullies.

20 posted on 12/12/2005 2:27:13 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: beanball

Prove it. Names, dates, times? Want to be taken seriously here? Be ready to defend yourself. I think your assertion is bogus.


21 posted on 12/12/2005 2:33:35 PM PST by Texas WOP
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To: Texas WOP

It is bogus. Thats why he has not responded to more than a few requests to provide proof of his assertions. Frankly, its people like him and George Bush that do the most to harm legal immigration.


22 posted on 12/12/2005 2:35:54 PM PST by Mulch (tm)
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To: beanball
Here's your entire posting history at Free Republic (4 posts and 1 double post). You waited two years just to start posting drivel on 28 November. You defend an admitted criminal, slander the Minuteman Project as thugs and bullies, and post some nonsense to Babygene (the 'save Tookie' troll) about running actor Fred Thompson for President.

Why don't you go back into lurker mode and leave the posting for the grownups.

Minutemen at the Polls (Last week's special election in California was a sign of things to come)
  Posted by beanball to KarlInOhio
On News/Activism 12/12/2005 1:33:59 PM PST · 8 of 20

the minutemen(sixty second thugs)are not wanted nor are they need here in Arizona.I live five miles from the border and I see the so called minute men screwing with mexican-americans, just because they can,they are bullies,if you don't believe me come on down and check for your self.


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DUKE CUNNINGHAM PLEADS GUILTY
  Posted by beanball to PISANO
On News/Activism 11/28/2005 11:02:02 AM PST · 60 of 150

Duke served his country during a time of peril,thats more than some of those cowards that diss him now.Keep your head up Duke.


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DUKE CUNNINGHAM PLEADS GUILTY
  Posted by beanball to PISANO
On News/Activism 11/28/2005 10:59:10 AM PST · 58 of 150

Duke served his country during a time of peril,thats more than some of those cowards that diss him now.Keep your head up Duke.


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A Shift in Political Landscape Seems To Favor McCain in '08
  Posted by beanball to babygene
On News/Activism 11/28/2005 10:55:03 AM PST · 70 of 164

Fred is an ok guy.


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Pray for President Bush - Day 1897
  Posted by beanball to Faith
On News/Activism 11/28/2005 10:50:26 AM PST · 5 of 10

faith,things not seen.we also need knowledge,and with that knowledge,we need understanding.


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A Congressman for Impeachment (Get ready to get angry)
  Posted by beanball to curtisgardner
On News/Activism 11/28/2005 10:46:04 AM PST · 10 of 39

is it unamerican to be antiwar.?


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23 posted on 12/12/2005 2:36:14 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Mulch

Agreed. Thanks for watching my "6". Merry Christmas.


24 posted on 12/12/2005 2:39:03 PM PST by Texas WOP
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To: Texas WOP
Likewise.
25 posted on 12/12/2005 2:42:21 PM PST by Mulch (tm)
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To: jackbenimble

"Any discussion of a guest worker program which does not explain in detail how the guests will be either induced or forced to leave the country when their visa expires is just a promotion of a sham amnesty. If they don't tell you how they are going to leave it is because they have no intention that they will ever leave."

Well said. Come and stay a while; but when it's time to go, go!


26 posted on 12/12/2005 3:05:45 PM PST by GAB-1955 (being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the Kingdom of Heaven....)
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To: nickcarraway

Truly frightening. Bound to keep me awake all night.


27 posted on 12/12/2005 3:29:47 PM PST by dr_who_2
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To: beanball

I don't believe you, and I don't need to go anywhere near Arizona to 'check,' because were that true, were they thugs and bullies, the MSM libs who are watching for any screwup would nail their hides to the wall. Try using lies that aren't so transparent next time.


28 posted on 12/12/2005 3:42:50 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (Cowards cut and run. Marines never do. Murtha can ESAD, that cowardly, no-longer-a-Marine, traitor.)
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To: nickcarraway
Those who'd like to save [a Guest Worker Program] would do well to start by seriously tackling immigration enforcement, without dismissing those who demand as much as racist crackpot vigilantes.

Yeah, but they don't have any credible arguments to use, so name calling is all they've got.

29 posted on 12/12/2005 3:50:05 PM PST by Plutarch
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To: Spiff

Hey, that posting history is neat. How did you do that?


30 posted on 12/12/2005 3:52:24 PM PST by Plutarch
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To: everyone

25 percent is a good showing and will be noticed by the GOP "leadership." Thanks to everyone who voted for Gilchrist, donated, or helped. Let's keep up the good work.


31 posted on 12/12/2005 3:54:05 PM PST by California Patriot
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To: Plutarch
Hey, that posting history is neat. How did you do that?

In Internet Explorer - > View menu - > Source.

Source opens in whatever your default editor is. It is notepad on my system.

If you've got good eyes and know HTML, you can pick out the portion of the HTML source which is the content that you want. Mark it and copy it. Paste it into a thread.

This works for all posts from various threads as well as someone's posting history. Heck, it works for a lot of stuff that you might want to post on FR. However, be careful with direct and relative links. Always check your links before posting.

32 posted on 12/12/2005 3:58:27 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: California Patriot
... the 48th district election in Orange County CA...

IRVINE, Calif. - A GOP state lawmaker will be sworn in to represent a reliably Republican congressional district, a day after withstanding a strong third party showing by an opponent of illegal immigration. (Gilchrist / Minuteman Project)

Big fat BINGO!

A majority of those votes probably came from the pubby side of the fence.

This is precisely why I tell people that say they are not going to vote to go vote for the 3rd party that is supporting getting rid of the illegal aliens.

THAT way the votes show up and are c-o-u-n-t-e-d. The pubbies will come to the same conclusion YOU did, they coudda/shoudda had those votes. Unfortunately the winning candidate appears to be an arrogant *******. In a tighter race the pubby might not have won WITHOUT getting right on the issue of the illegal aliens.

GILCHRIST: "tonight's special election in California's 48th District, but he got 25.1% of the vote,"

CAMPBELL: In 2000 it was 62% R vs. 26% D, and in 2002 it was 68% R vs. 28% D.

44% Campbell plus 25% Gilchrist is the historically traditional Rep. vote in the high 60's.... The pubbies need to be VERY careful here. The "Gilchrist vote" appears to have come directly from the pubbies.

Note to RNC lurkers... Presidential elections typically do NOT have the luxury of a 15% - 20% numerical advantage.

You RNC guys better let this election BURN IN REAL GOOD...

If You Screw Up And Do Not Get The Illegals OUT, You Will Loose The White House In 2008

33 posted on 12/12/2005 4:03:21 PM PST by TLI (ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA, Minuteman Project AZ Day -1 to Day 8, Texas Minutemen El Paso, 32 Days)
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To: nickcarraway

bump


34 posted on 12/12/2005 4:06:19 PM PST by moehoward
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To: Spiff

To your #32

Now I'm confused, I tried that. I have that option on my menu bar but it didn't do anything.

Me, I just click on the persons name, it brings you to their home page and then click "in forum".

But I'm still curious about your way.


35 posted on 12/12/2005 4:35:55 PM PST by ozarkgirl
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To: ozarkgirl
Now I'm confused, I tried that. I have that option on my menu bar but it didn't do anything. Me, I just click on the persons name, it brings you to their home page and then click "in forum". But I'm still curious about your way.

You have to do the "in forum" thing if you want to see the source of their latest posts.

If you click View > Source and nothing happens, then you need to clear your Internet Explorer cache.

36 posted on 12/12/2005 4:39:27 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: B4Ranch

Actually, they are vigilantes.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a vigilante. Vigilanteism is what happens when law abiding people have to face the fact that help is not on the way and they are on their own. Vigilanteism is precisely what SHOULD happen when the forces of law and order are clearly outmatched. It is what didn't happen in Clichy sous Bois and caused the situation to spiral out of control.


37 posted on 12/12/2005 4:41:55 PM PST by Sam the Sham (A conservative party tough on illegal immigration could carry California in 2008)
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To: Spiff
Spiff-- I followed your instructions, and got this, thanks!


To: Plutarch
Hey, that posting history is neat. How did you do that?

In Internet Explorer - > View menu - > Source.

Source opens in whatever your default editor is. It is notepad on my system.

If you've got good eyes and know HTML, you can pick out the portion of the HTML source which is the content that you want. Mark it and copy it. Paste it into a thread.

This works for all posts from various threads as well as someone's posting history. Heck, it works for a lot of stuff that you might want to post on FR. However, be careful with direct and relative links. Always check your links before posting.

32 posted on 12/12/2005 3:58:27 PM PST by Spiff

38 posted on 12/12/2005 5:19:14 PM PST by Plutarch
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To: Sam the Sham

Study our history before you spout nontruths. Vigilantes render punishment, something that the Minutemen leave to the badge carrying LEO's. One simple act of true vigilantism and the modern MM's would be banished.


39 posted on 12/12/2005 8:23:24 PM PST by B4Ranch (No expiration date is on the Oath to protect America from all enemies, foreign and domestic.)
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To: beanball
the minutemen(sixty second thugs)are not wanted nor are they need here in Arizona.I live five miles from the border and I see the so called minute men screwing with mexican-americans, just because they can,they are bullies,if you don't believe me come on down and check for your self.

I don't have to come down, and check it out, I am there, I live 8 miles from the border, I have pulled over sixty shifts on the border, some with the MMP, most with another group.

I am here to tell you, you are spewing bovine excrement!

40 posted on 12/12/2005 8:24:40 PM PST by c-b 1
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To: B4Ranch

I'm not using "The Oxbridge Incident" as a template of vigilanteism. I am using the regulators or an ad hoc posse of citizens as my template.


41 posted on 12/12/2005 8:26:11 PM PST by Sam the Sham (A conservative party tough on illegal immigration could carry California in 2008)
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To: Spiff

"You (beanball) are full of crap."

Before you say that, you should investigate a freepers previous posts.

Beanball has made 4, all of dubious quality.

I think you are right, beanball is full of crap.


42 posted on 12/12/2005 9:42:40 PM PST by staytrue (MOONBAT conservatives are those who would rather lose to a liberal than support a moderate)
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To: rolling_stone
Well I can see this guy is biased, and dismiss this liberal crackpot OBL whiner.

Methinks you have a comprehension problem.

The author is arguing in your favor. He is claiming that we are NOT "racist crackpot vigilantes".

43 posted on 12/12/2005 9:51:24 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Sam the Sham

Okay, now I understand where you speak from.

Thanks for the clarification.


44 posted on 12/12/2005 9:57:46 PM PST by B4Ranch (No expiration date is on the Oath to protect America from all enemies, foreign and domestic.)
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