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FULL Statement denying Tookie clemency from Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (MUST READ)
SD Union Tribune ^ | 12-12-05 | Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger

Posted on 12/12/2005 8:25:48 PM PST by cgk

ASSOCIATED PRESS

2:36 p.m. December 12, 2005

Here is the complete statement by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger denying clemency for Stanley Tookie Williams.

Stanley Williams has been convicted of brutally murdering four people during two separate armed robberies in February and March 1979. A California jury sentenced him to death, and he is scheduled for execution on December 13, 2005.

During the early morning hours of February 28, 1979, Williams and three others went on a robbery spree. Around 4 a.m., they entered a 7-Eleven store where Albert Owens was working by himself. Here, Williams, armed with his pump-action shotgun, ordered Owens to a back room and shot him twice in the back while he lay face down on the floor. Williams and his accomplices made off with about $120 from the store's cash register. After leaving the 7-Eleven store, Williams told the others that he killed Albert Owens because he did not want any witnesses. Later that morning, Williams recounted shooting Albert Owens, saying "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes.

On March 11, 1979, less than two weeks later, Williams, again armed with his shotgun, robbed a family operated motel and shot and killed three members of the family: the father, Yen-I Yang, who was shot once in the torso and once in the arm while he was laying on a sofa; the mother, Tsai-Shai Lin, who was shot once in the abdomen and once in the back; and the daughter, Yee-Chen Lin, who was shot once in her face. For these murders, Williams made away with approximately $100 in cash. Williams also told others about the details of these murders and referred to the victims as "Buddha-heads."

Now, his appeals exhausted, Williams seeks mercy in the form of a petition for clemency. He claims that he deserves clemency because he has undergone a personal transformation and is redeemed, and because there were problems with his trial that undermine the fairness of the jury's verdict.

Williams' case has been thoroughly reviewed in the 24 years since his convictions and death sentence. In addition to his direct appeal to the California Supreme Court, Williams has filed five state habeas corpus petitions, each of which has been rejected. The federal courts have also reviewed his convictions and death sentence. Williams filed a federal habeas corpus petition, and the U.S. District Court denied it. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals confirmed this decision. Williams was also given a number of post-trial evidentiary hearings, and he and his lawyers had the opportunity at these hearings to present evidence that was not heard at trial. The jury's decision has withstood these challenges.

In all, Williams' case has been the subject of at least eight substantive judicial opinions. Prior to the filing of the clemency petition, the state court habeas process was completed on June 21, 1995, when the California Supreme Court denied Williams' fourth state habeas corpus petition. The federal court habeas process was completed on October 11, 2005, when the United States Supreme Court denied Williams' writ of certiorari.

The claim that Williams received an unfair trial was the subject of this extensive litigation in the state and federal courts. The courts considered the sufficiency of his counsel, the strategic nature of counsel's decisions during the penalty phase of Williams' trial, the adequacy and reliability of testimony from informants, whether Williams was prejudiced by security measures employed during his trial, whether he was competent to stand trial, whether the prosecutor impermissibly challenged potential jurors on the basis of race, and whether his jury was improperly influenced by Williams' threats made against them. There is no need to rehash or second guess the myriad findings of the courts over 24 years of litigation.

The possible irregularities in Williams' trial have been thoroughly and carefully reviewed by the courts, and there is no reason to disturb the judicial decisions that uphold the jury's decisions that he is guilty of these four murders and should pay with his life.

The basis of Williams' clemency request is not innocence. Rather, the basis of the request is the "personal redemption Stanley Williams has experienced and the positive impact of the message he sends" (quoting Williams' own clemency reply). But Williams' claim of innocence remains a key factor to evaluating his claim of personal redemption. It is impossible to separate Williams' claim of innocence from his claim of redemption.

Cumulatively, the evidence demonstrating Williams is guilty of these murders is strong and compelling. It includes: (1) eyewitness testimony of Alfred Coward, who was one of Williams' accomplices in the 7-Eleven shooting; (2) ballistics evidence proving that the shotgun casing found at the scene of the motel murders was fired from Williams' shotgun; (3) testimony from Samuel Coleman that Williams confessed that he had robbed and killed some people on Vermont Street (where the motel was located); (4) testimony from James and Esther Garrett that Williams admitted to them that he committed both sets of murders; and (5) testimony from jailhouse informant George Oglesby that Williams confessed to the motel murders and conspired with Oglesby to escape from county jail.

The trial evidence is bolstered by information from Tony Sims, who has admitted to being an accomplice in the 7-Eleven murder. Sims did not testify against Williams at trial, but he was later convicted of murder for his role in Albert Owens' death. During his trial and subsequent parole hearings, Sims has repeatedly stated under oath that Williams was the shooter.

Based on the cumulative weight of the evidence, there is no reason to second guess the jury's decision of guilt or raise significant doubts or serious reservations about Williams' convictions and death sentence. He murdered Albert Owens and Yen-I Yang, Yee-Chen Lin and Tsai-Shai Lin in cold blood in two separate incidents that were just weeks apart.

But Williams claims that he is particularly deserving of clemency because he has reformed and been redeemed for his violent past. Williams' claim of redemption triggers an inquiry into his atonement for all his transgressions. Williams protests that he has no reason to apologize for these murders because he did not commit them. But he is guilty, and a close look at Williams' post-arrest and post-conviction conduct tells a story that is different from redemption.

After Williams was arrested for these crimes, and while he was awaiting trial, he conspired to escape from custody by blowing up a jail transportation bus and killing the deputies guarding the bus. There are detailed escape plans in Williams' own handwriting. Williams never executed this plan, but his co-conspirator implicated Williams in the scheme. The fact that Williams conspired to murder several others to effectuate his escape from jail while awaiting his murder trial is consistent with guilt, not innocence. And the timing of the motel murders – less than two weeks after the murder of Albert Owens – shows a callous disregard for human life.

Williams has written books that instruct readers to avoid the gang lifestyle and to stay out of prison. In 1996, a Tookie Speaks Out Against Gang Violence children's book series was published. In 1998, "Life in Prison" was published. In 2004, Williams published a memoir entitled "Blue Rage, Black Redemption." He has also recently (since 1995) tried to preach a message of gang avoidance and peacemaking, including a protocol for street peace to be used by opposing gangs.

It is hard to assess the effect of such efforts in concrete terms, but the continued pervasiveness of gang violence leads one to question the efficacy of Williams' message. Williams co-founded the Crips, a notorious street gang that has contributed and continues to contribute to predatory and exploitative violence.

The dedication of Williams' book "Life in Prison" casts significant doubt on his personal redemption. This book was published in 1998, several years after Williams' claimed redemptive experience. Specifically, the book is dedicated to "Nelson Mandela, Angela Davis, Malcolm X, Assata Shakur, Geronimo Ji Jaga Pratt, Ramona Africa, John Africa, Leonard Peltier, Dhoruba Al-Mujahid, George Jackson, Mumia Abu-Jamal and the countless other men, women and youths who have to endure the hellish oppression of living behind bars." The mix of individuals on this list is curious. Most have violent pasts and some have been convicted of committing heinous murders, including the killing of law enforcement. But the inclusion of George Jackson (a militant activist who founded the Black Guerilla Family prison gang and was charged with the murder of a San Quentin prison guard) on this list defies reason and is a significant indicator that Williams is not reformed and that he still sees violence and lawlessness as a legitimate means to address societal problems.

There is also little mention or atonement in his writings and his plea for clemency of the countless murders committed by the Crips following the lifestyle Williams once espoused. The senseless killing that has ruined many families, particularly in African-American communities, in the name of the Crips and gang warfare is a tragedy of our modern culture. One would expect more explicit and direct reference to this byproduct of his former lifestyle in Williams' writings and apology for this tragedy, but it exists only through innuendo and inference.

Is Williams' redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise? Stanley Williams insists he is innocent, and that he will not and should not apologize or otherwise atone for the murders of the four victims in this case. Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings there can be no redemption. In this case, the one thing that would be the clearest indication of complete remorse and full redemption is the one thing Williams will not do.

Clemency decisions are always difficult, and this one is no exception. After reviewing and weighing the showing Williams has made in support of his clemency request, there is nothing that compels me to nullify the jury's decision of guilt and sentence and the many court decisions during the last 24 years upholding the jury's decision with a grant of clemency.

Therefore, based on the totality of circumstances in this case, Williams' request for clemency is denied.



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; US: California
KEYWORDS: schwarzenegger; stanleywilliams; terminator; tookie; tookiedenied
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Original statement is posted on the Governor's website Here, with a link to the full statement, except in PDF format.

I searched and could not find the Governor's full statement posted. Reading it in its entirety surprised me, as some of what I think would be the more "controversial" statements have, so far, not been reported by the news I've seen/heard. Note Tookie's book dedications!

Specifically, the book is dedicated to "Nelson Mandela, Angela Davis, Malcolm X, Assata Shakur, Geronimo Ji Jaga Pratt, Ramona Africa, John Africa, Leonard Peltier, Dhoruba Al-Mujahid, George Jackson, Mumia Abu-Jamal and the countless other men, women and youths who have to endure the hellish oppression of living behind bars."

1 posted on 12/12/2005 8:25:50 PM PST by cgk
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To: doug from upland

Ping


2 posted on 12/12/2005 8:26:30 PM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: martin_fierro

It looks like Arnold did his homework.


3 posted on 12/12/2005 8:28:19 PM PST by doug from upland (Hasta la vista, Tookie)
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To: cgk
"Therefore, based on the totality of circumstances in this case, Williams' request for clemency is denied."

"So hasta la vista baby."

There. that's more like the Arnold we all know and love.

4 posted on 12/12/2005 8:28:29 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: cgk

I used to not know about Arnold but his initiatives and now this: " Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings there can be no redemption."

I am starting to like this guy!


5 posted on 12/12/2005 8:29:04 PM PST by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (To those who believe the world was safer with Saddam, get treatment for that!)
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To: cgk
Ramona Africa, John Africa...

The orignal MOVEon.org. Philly ping!

6 posted on 12/12/2005 8:31:30 PM PST by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
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To: cgk
"...countless other men, women and youths who have to endure the hellish oppression of living behind bars."
 

As opposed to having your face blown off by a shotgun for $100 by an animal.

7 posted on 12/12/2005 8:32:15 PM PST by Fintan (Suppose there were no hypothectical questions?)
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To: cgk
the more "controversial" statements have, so far, not been reported by the news I've seen/heard. Note Tookie's book dedications!

LOL!!! Yeah, that's what I was thinking. And the book dedication is a book in itself!

Let the "I want a flat screen TV" riots begin!...

8 posted on 12/12/2005 8:34:16 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: cgk
Excellent statement by the Governor.
Thanks.
9 posted on 12/12/2005 8:34:33 PM PST by vox_freedom (Fear no evil)
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To: cgk

"Batter up!"

"Mumia Abu-Jamal - yer on deck."


10 posted on 12/12/2005 8:35:00 PM PST by Peelod (Decentia est fragilis. Curatoribus validis indiget.)
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To: cgk
Did I miss something along the way? Tookie claims he should be granted clemency not because of a claim of innocence, but rather personal redemption.

...but he has never admitted to the murders, declaring irregularities and that he is innocent.

If he's innocent, from what is he personally redeemed?

11 posted on 12/12/2005 8:35:33 PM PST by infidel29 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: cgk
Way to go Arnie...time for a song: "Took-Took-Tookie Bye-Bye...."
12 posted on 12/12/2005 8:36:14 PM PST by Former Dodger ( "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." --Einstein)
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To: cgk

"No Tookie, f*ck YOU!"


13 posted on 12/12/2005 8:37:36 PM PST by j_tull (Merry Christmas to all!)
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To: cgk

It it was a white guy who killed four black guys would there be any question about clemency? No way.


14 posted on 12/12/2005 8:38:55 PM PST by Seven Minute Maniac
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To: cgk

Thanks for the information. Our govenator came through.


15 posted on 12/12/2005 8:39:04 PM PST by SoCalPol (Cowards Cut and Run, Marines Never Do)
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To: Seven Minute Maniac

Jamie Foxx said if Tookie were white he'd be the head of a corporation. That's just a moronic statement.


16 posted on 12/12/2005 8:43:00 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (An agnostic who never, ever says "Happy Holidays")
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To: Peelod

Does that guy even have a date yet?


17 posted on 12/12/2005 8:43:06 PM PST by bigsigh
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To: cgk

_____Thank you Arnold_______


governor@governor.ca.gov


18 posted on 12/12/2005 8:45:20 PM PST by WasDougsLamb (I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man)
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To: cgk

Thank you for the posting.


19 posted on 12/12/2005 8:45:51 PM PST by elli1
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To: cgk

Thanks. This is a well-written denial. Schwarzenegger did the right thing, for which I am grateful.


20 posted on 12/12/2005 8:47:29 PM PST by DoughtyOne (MSM: Public support for war waining. 403/3 House vote against pullout vaporizes another lie.)
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To: cgk

Thanks for posting the full statement.

For weeks the media avoided discussing Tookie's heinous crimes, and that he has been appealing for the past 24 years, and each time after examining the facts, the judges reinforced the original verdict.

I am glad Arnold discussed the crimes, appeals, and Tookie's bahaviour in prison, and justified his denial of clemency well. There was NO good reason, or any reason to grant clemency to this monster.


21 posted on 12/12/2005 8:47:39 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: infidel29

>>If he's innocent, from what is he personally redeemed?<<

Excellent point. This needs to be repeated over and over.


22 posted on 12/12/2005 8:48:03 PM PST by SerpentDove (Kentucky Fried Tookie.)
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To: cgk

I'm no (R)-nold fan but this is good work in this case.


23 posted on 12/12/2005 8:50:08 PM PST by thoughtomator (What'ya mean you formatted the cat!?)
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To: cgk

Damn.. Arnold sure ripped him a new one.


24 posted on 12/12/2005 8:51:45 PM PST by dc-zoo
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To: cgk
The money word is at the very end of the statement: DENIED. I think the review speaks for itself and there's nothing more to add that I can think of. If Williams was really reformed, he wouldn't go to the length of filing frivolous appeals with the courts over the same ground they're already looked at several times already. Now its time for justice to be done.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

25 posted on 12/12/2005 8:52:36 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: jwalsh07; sinkspur

I could not have written it better myself.


26 posted on 12/12/2005 8:53:46 PM PST by Torie
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To: cgk

Good decision, Arnold.

My only question is what took so long and why he even offered this lowlife murdering thug a hearing given the mounds of evidence and court history outlined above, all of which was available before any hearing.


27 posted on 12/12/2005 8:53:56 PM PST by calcowgirl
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To: bigsigh

Yes - on my Fantasy Justice lineup.


28 posted on 12/12/2005 8:54:03 PM PST by Peelod (Decentia est fragilis. Curatoribus validis indiget.)
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To: goldstategop

What offed him perhaps in the end was his claiming his innocence, when the evidence was overwhelming that he was guilty. That is not the path to personal renewal. That is just more gaming of the system, to rein in the usual suspects. Few deserve death more than this guy.


29 posted on 12/12/2005 8:56:05 PM PST by Torie
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To: cgk
Clemency denied.

You mean stupid, stinking illiterate idiots like this can act "bad" all they want to, but they don't amount to jack squat?


30 posted on 12/12/2005 8:56:36 PM PST by SerpentDove (Kentucky Fried Tookie.)
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To: Fintan
Prison is such a hell, huh? I guess three meals a day, a warm bed to sleep in at night and an exercise yard don't count. Our homeless would be lucky to be cared for the way Williams was. The lack of gratitude to civilized people is shall we say, underwhelming.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

31 posted on 12/12/2005 8:58:21 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Darkwolf377

"Jamie Foxx said if Tookie were white he'd be the head of a corporation"......CEO of Murder, Inc.


32 posted on 12/12/2005 9:00:35 PM PST by RouxStir (Peaceful Muslim?.....The Ultimate Oxymoron.)
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To: cgk

Well done Ahhnold. This was probably the most important decision of your political life and you did the right thing and you did it well.

Tookie is a monster, not a human. Soon he will be visiting with other monsters, far more talented in monsterism than he is. The "oppressive" American society will then seem like a walk in heaven in comparison. You have only yourself to blame Tookie.


33 posted on 12/12/2005 9:01:08 PM PST by fizziwig
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To: Torie
I can understand a claim of innocence. That doesn't really bother me and of course every murderer claims they didn't do it. What I really object to is their gaming the system and making fools of otherwise intelligent people. Good to see our Governor, who although I don't agree with him on much, is absolutely correct that clemency is, for a host of reasons, NOT justified in Williams' situation.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

34 posted on 12/12/2005 9:01:47 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: SerpentDove

You stole my glory, I was about to post that.

I will also add - there are plenty of young suburban moms who should be held accountable. They buy these albums without a moment's hesitation.

And why not, when Best Buy shoves it in your face and says it's good for you. (I would dare to make an analogy, but I don't wish to be banned here tonight.)


35 posted on 12/12/2005 9:02:57 PM PST by SteveMcKing ("No empire collapses because of technical reasons. They collapse because they are unnatural.")
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To: calcowgirl

>>My only question is what took so long and why he even offered this lowlife murdering thug a hearing given the mounds of evidence and court history outlined above, all of which was available before any hearing.<<

I have NO evidence that this happened, but here is how I imagine it going down.

The murderer's defenders go into Arnolds office to plea their case.

Each presents a pee-poor excuse for why this piece of crap should be breathing up good air. One might even tearfully read from one of Dookie's children's books.

At the end, Ahnold says, "Gentlemen, is that all?"

Then he brings out a folder which contains pictures of the murder victims in all their blood and gore, and spreads them out before them.

"Thanks for stopping by, gentlemen. You shall have my answer soon."


36 posted on 12/12/2005 9:03:07 PM PST by SerpentDove (Kentucky Fried Tookie.)
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To: cgk
It is hard to assess the effect of such efforts in concrete terms, but the continued pervasiveness of gang violence leads one to question the efficacy of Williams' message.

Liberals NEVER evaluate on results.

37 posted on 12/12/2005 9:03:35 PM PST by Fido969 ("And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).)
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To: cgk

Bump


38 posted on 12/12/2005 9:04:13 PM PST by sport
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To: Darkwolf377

The intelligent minds of hollywood. If it weren't for the innocent people in california, Id almost say yeah, let him free in hollywood. They like him, they can have him.


39 posted on 12/12/2005 9:05:44 PM PST by Seven Minute Maniac
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To: cgk

LAT on Arnold's statement -- note the stupid title:

Proclamations of Innocence May Have Doomed Williams

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-analysis13dec13,0,4494420.story?coll=la-home-headlines


What doomed Tookie is his own actions!


===
Excerpt from the LAT article:

"Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger did not just reject Stanley Tookie Williams' request for clemency, he aggressively attacked the central element of the former gang leader's case: Williams, he said, had never really reformed.

Over the past decade, Williams has become famous based on the story of how he went from a gang leader to an anti-gang crusader who has written books aimed at steering young people away from crime. That life story was at the heart of Williams' request for clemency.

ADVERTISEMENT

Schwarzenegger rejected it entirely, suggesting that Williams' claim for redemption was "hollow."

The governor laid out his case in a five-page statement that was unusual for the length, detail and blunt tone in which it dismissed Williams' claims. Aides said the statement was largely drafted by Andrea Hoch, Schwarzenegger's legal affairs secretary, and her predecessor in that job, Peter Siggins.

Aides to the governor, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss the governor's deliberations, said Schwarzenegger was reviewing drafts of the statement as late as Monday morning. It was officially released shortly after noon. He reviewed as many as a half dozen drafts, asking detailed questions, the aides said."



40 posted on 12/12/2005 9:05:48 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: cgk

According to the Tookie Execution Clock, in approximately 3 hours they are going to stop the world and let Tookie off.


41 posted on 12/12/2005 9:07:51 PM PST by sport
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To: calcowgirl
Well I think its important to send a message to the idiots out there and put it all on the record. So they can't claim the Governor didn't have all the facts in front of him or was swayed by politics or such nonsense. Its Mike Farrell and the ACLU's that's blasting Arnold as a "cowardly politician." After having read the statement, I don't agree at all with that characterization. If you look at all the evidence, you can't come up with a different conclusion. Williams' life spoke for itself and I can't think of any one less deserving of clemency. And all the misrepresentations and lies of his supporters won't change the reality that he is a cold-blooded murderer.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

42 posted on 12/12/2005 9:11:34 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

>>And all the misrepresentations and lies of his supporters won't change the reality that he is a cold-blooded murderer.

Yep.


43 posted on 12/12/2005 9:13:17 PM PST by calcowgirl
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To: FairOpinion
Usually these sorts of statements tend to be curt. I think the length and detail in this one was justified considering the publicity given to this multiple murderer and the way his high profile supporters built him up. When you look at the picture more closely, there's less than meets the eye to the legend. There are things that go into genuine contrition and remorse and no one has seen Williams' display them. Its been all about HIM without so much as askance at others who intersected with his life.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

44 posted on 12/12/2005 9:16:48 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: jan in Colorado

ping


45 posted on 12/12/2005 9:17:08 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: cgk
I participate in Bible study programs at a men's shelter in Phoenix. We hold hour-long sessions several nights a week after dinner for the residents.

In order to explain the redemptive and regenerative power of the salvation offered by Christ, we many times have to unteach what the guys think they know about Christianity. I like to use a scene from the movie "O Brother, Where Art Thou?".

Primarily due to the popular media, but also due to many "modern" denominations a lot of people have the idea that they are supposed to "earn" their way to heaven. Therefore, they conclude that they must start being good in order to get into the good graces of God. Churches reinforce this non-Biblical view by positing a list of "do's" and "don'ts" which outsiders presume must be a prerequisite to Church membership, and ultimately, salvation.

The Biblical view is stated in Eph 2:8-9: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.(English standard version. 2001)

This truth is wonderfully depicted in a scene from the Clooney movie. After Delmar rushes into the river to be baptized, he emerges overwhelmed with gratitude to God with the burden of sin and it's guilt lifted from his heart. He proclaims that from that day forward, he will walk the "straight and narrow", because he has been redeemed.

Notice that his proclamation isn't in order to guarantee his status with God, it is purely out of gratitude. Also notice that right up until he rushes into that water to throw himself at the mercy of God, he is an unrepentant sinner, seeking a way of escape.

(Back to this thread) In the next scene, Delmar and Pete are rambling on about how they are right with God and everything will be O.K. Clooney tries to throw cold water on their euphoria by stating: "You may be innocent in the eyes of God, the the state of Mississippi is a little more hard-nosed on these matters!"

I point out to the men at the shelter that while the guilt of past sins can be totally erased by God's grace, the earthly consequences, including punishment, from past acts usually remain.

46 posted on 12/12/2005 9:20:45 PM PST by the_Watchman
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To: Torie
Few deserve death more than this guy.

I agree. Now he even loses his street cred with his "community" Didn't see white killer Timothy Mc Veigh begging for his life . I believe he died defiant. At least that scum stayed true to his twisted beliefs.
47 posted on 12/12/2005 9:23:39 PM PST by newfarm4000n (God Bless America and God Bless Freedom)
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To: Peelod
Where does Mumia stand in his processes? Are we likely to be treated to his demise anytime soon?
48 posted on 12/12/2005 9:30:57 PM PST by TCats
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To: Darkwolf377

Jamie Foxx said if Tookie were white he'd be the head of a corporation. That's just a moronic statement

----I say if Jamie Foxx were white he would be better looking. lol


49 posted on 12/12/2005 9:31:53 PM PST by WasDougsLamb (I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man)
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To: cgk
He has also recently (since 1995) tried to preach a message of gang avoidance and peacemaking, including a protocol for street peace to be used by opposing gangs. It is hard to assess the effect of such efforts in concrete terms, but the continued pervasiveness of gang violence leads one to question the efficacy of Williams' message.

This is a very important little observation here. This sentence applies to almost every liberal intitiative in which good intentions are somehow supposed to trump piss poor results.

I hope Arnold will apply this rule to all government programs and liberal programs.

Also, I'm wondering how his new democrat side-kick is taking this ruling. Anyone heard?

50 posted on 12/12/2005 9:32:03 PM PST by lawnguy (Give me some of your tots!!!)
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