Posted on 12/19/2005 6:23:54 AM PST by NYer
You say. I say that someone attending Church because the Church, speaking as God's representative on earth, mandates you attend, that person is obeying God. Not "social and cultural pressures." The Church is not a social club.
SD
It's one thing for an individual to decide that he's going to sleep in on Sunday/Christmas or open his presents, and just go to the Saturday service instead or not go at all. That is his individual decision and affects only him.
But when the church decides to close on Christmas, it affects every single parishioner. Even if they had made a personal, individual decision to attend on Christmas Day.
Doesn't directly concern us Catholics of course, because Mass is celebrated 24/7/365, whether anybody shows up or not. We had a really bad ice storm last winter, roads were bad and power was out at the church. My husband sees any snow and ice as a personal challenge, so he and my son went to church anyhow (daughter and I were out of town.)
It was a tiny service, maybe 10-20 people there out of a very large parish. The folks who were there organized to act as altar servers, scratch up a (a capella) choir, and get the job done. It was a heart-warming event. But even if nobody at all showed up the priest would have celebrated Mass anyway.
Yep. I believe there has to be at least one other person present, besides the priest, because the Mass is a public, not a private event. If one believes that the Eucharist brings blessings and grace into the world, and it is the reason God instituted the Church why would any day go by without it? The Mass has greater benefits for the world than just for those physically present.
SD
Jesus was not likely born in December.
At the time of Christ's birth, the shepherds tended their flocks in the fields at night.
(Luke 2:8) Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night.
A common practice of shepherds was keeping their flocks in the field from April to October, but in the cold and rainy winter months they took their flocks back home and sheltered them.
As these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is likely that October had not yet commenced.
The Bible indicates that each individual believer has been given a great deal of freedom in determining specific days of observance.
(Rom 14:5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
"Was it Satan? ... Isn't that special."
Perhaps I'm missing something here but don't the evangelical churches normally hold services on Sunday? There is a large one near me and their parking lot is always overflowing on Sundays. So, why would a church that is normally open on Sunday close on this Sunday, just because it also happens to be Christmas? What is it that I am not understanding?
Maybe you should read it again. Consider, the prophets of the Old Testament for example. Did they love the Lord or did they serve him just because they were forced?
How about John the Baptist? Did he love to spread the gospel or was it just a chore that performed. The list goes on and on. You couldn't stop Paul to stop spreading the word after his conversion. The list goes on and on.
Contrast this will the many evil leaders that chronicled in the Old Testament. Many of them did exactly what they were "obligated" to do but not one thing more. The God of the bible is not stupid - he saw through this attempt at lip service.
I'll add one additional qualification. Non-Catholics can participate in everything except actually receiving the Eucharist. You can even go up to the altar rail with your arms crossed over your chest and receive a blessing from the priest (many folks who are afraid they have a mortal sin on their conscience and haven't made it to confession will do this too.)
But there is ONE exception to this general rule, which my husband and I took advantage of. You'll find it in Canon 844 of the Church. In an emergency, IF you believe in all the doctrines of the Catholic church (Transubstantiation and the supremacy of the Pope are the usual sticking points), IF you ask permission ahead of time and of your own volition, and IF no minister of your own denomination is available, you MAY receive.
We did this when we were orphaned Episcopalians, after the awful General Convention when the homosexual adulterous "bishop" was "consecrated". We could no longer remain in communion with a heretical denomination, and since we were nosebleed-high Anglicans anyhow, there were absolutely no points of doctrinal difference (other than the validity of Anglican orders!) But we called on the Rector and talked it over with him first, and it was absolutely his call. (His opinion was that the ECUSA "bishop" was a walking emergency, all by himself.) < g >
Some of these megachurches say they need "thousands" of volunteers for a normal service (and you thought we had armies of EMCs) and that it is difficult to get so many on the holiday. And anyway, the last time this happened on a Sunday, few people showed up anyway. So they just called the whole thing off.
It speaks a lot to the state of the megachurch and its attendees.
SD
Well, if we take your example further, then shouldn't "church" be open and congregants expected to attend every day?
Tradition elevated to equal status with Scripture is exactly what Jesus spoke against. Are we listening?
Well, I am not convinced you are missing anything, but, if you are - I am too.
Evangelical churches indeed normally hold services on Sunday. The reason given as to why our church is not holding a service is so that families can spend Christmas together, the assumption being that we otherwise wouldn't.
? - go figure.
Again, I don't think you are 'not understanding", I think you get it.
Most of latin america is Catholic due only to social and cultural pressures. Unless they went to a Catholic school, I doubt less than 1 in 10 could quote one bible verse or even intelligently explain the church's teachings. I doubt that even less would be able to name any of the minor prophets or what their teachings were.
To be fair, I doubt that many Protestants could either. Like Catholics, the vast majority of Protestants are Christians and specifically protestant, only because of family, social and cultural norms.
There is a reason why demonations tend to clump together geographically.
>>but this is a pretty petty issue<<
You may see it as such, but I think altering the worship schedule to accommodate the comfort of men is not such a petty thing, and can be quite the slippery slope.
This isn't as much of a Saturday/Sunday worship issue, as it is an issue of making excuses to justify laziness and the whole seeker-sensitivity movement. The "worship God in your own way" line of thinking, instead of worshipping God in HIS way.
Look at the motive behind the excuses. It's all for the convenience of men - and once a church starts compromising for such a reason, it sets a bad precedent for the future.
>>Don't be upset when your flavor of Christianity comes under fire.<<
lol...Reformers have been under fire since the days of Martin Luther. This isn't a popularity contest.
That verse has been taken so out of context that it would be laughable if it were not so sad.
We need to read it in context of when it was written to better understand it.
But hey, that's never stopped us before from building doctrine.
What is God's address?
I'm continually amazed at how much attention people pay to what someone ELSE'S church does. Five churches in the country close on Christmas, and everyone else is in a tizzy. I don't go to any of those churches, and will be at Christmas service. I just don't get it.
For non-Catholics who believe that they have a direct pipeline to God and don't have to go through the church to get to Him, attending church just for the sake of attending is legalism and ritualistic.
For example, if a person wakes up on Sunday and feels like he needs some alone time with God, there is nothing wrong with staying home, praying and reading the bible.
To Catholics I can see where this can seem like a foreign concept, but yet they get upset when protestants feel that they've put Mary (just a person) on a undeserved pedestal.
But the Bible says that "he who knows the right thing to do and doesn't do it, to him it is sin." (James 4:17)
How is "sending an awful message" not a sin?
Could it be that your own tradition has polluted your mind?
In the picture you posted, what's the outfit being worn? What is it with the particular way of folding of the hands, etc.?
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