Posted on 12/19/2005 10:30:55 AM PST by yoe
Great, Peach. So they tell us that they only use on those who most folks will identify as 'bad guys,' so it is okay to circumvent the law. What are you going to say when a President you don't like so much has this power?
You should forward this section to Judge Napolitano and Jonathan Turley. They're both all over the airwaves saying it's illegal.
If that were the case, I'm guessing we'd have heard that legal defense in place of the complete and utter sham that the authorization-of-force basically invalidated FISA.
That's because it is, and bobsunshine is trying real, real hard to hide the ball.
It's been targeted to those having overseas communications with AQ. Could be an American citizen, but unlikely, imo. And we've seen no evidence that it HAS involved an American citizen. None.
I already said yesterday that if it's President Clinton, I'm uncomfortable. But as I've repeated today, there's no evidence that an American citizens has been wiretapped.
Return to section 1801, subsection (i): "United States person," which includes citizens, legal aliens, and businesses, explicitly "does not include a corporation or an association which is a foreign power."
Well sure, but does that mean that even if you are a citizen you cash in your abovementioned rights by collaborating with terrorists? Yes you do. You have then become an "Agent of a foreign power" as defined under subsection (b)(2)(C). Such agents include anyone who "knowingly engages in sabotage or international terrorism, or activities that are in preparation therefor, for or on behalf of a foreign power," and even includes those who aid and abet or knowingly conspire with those engaged in such behavior.
Wait, that includes anyone, even citizens? Yes — subsection (b)(1) is the part that applies to foreigners; (b)(2) covers everybody. And the whole point of the act is to collect "foreign intelligence information," which is defined under section 1801 subsection (e)(1)(B) as "information that relates to, and if concerning a United States person is necessary to, the ability of the United States to protect against sabotage or international terrorism by a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power."
This is the part Judge Napalotano doesn't get:
return to section 1801, subsection (i): "United States person," which includes citizens, legal aliens, and businesses, explicitly "does not include a corporation or an association which is a foreign power."
Well sure, but does that mean that even if you are a citizen you cash in your abovementioned rights by collaborating with terrorists? Yes you do. You have then become an "Agent of a foreign power" as defined under subsection (b)(2)(C). Such agents include anyone who "knowingly engages in sabotage or international terrorism, or activities that are in preparation therefor, for or on behalf of a foreign power," and even includes those who aid and abet or knowingly conspire with those engaged in such behavior.
Wait, that includes anyone, even citizens? Yes — subsection (b)(1) is the part that applies to foreigners; (b)(2) covers everybody. And the whole point of the act is to collect "foreign intelligence information," which is defined under section 1801 subsection (e)(1)(B) as "information that relates to, and if concerning a United States person is necessary to, the ability of the United States to protect against sabotage or international terrorism by a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power."
You're the one full of disinformation! Where has anybody in the Whitehouse, DOJ, NSA said that U.S. Citizens were targets? Even the NY Times in it's initial article stated that no laws were broken. When you or anyone else comes up with the U.S. citizen that was illegally tapped, then you might have some groung to stand on........
But I doubt that person exists.
Napolitano is wacky if you ask me, but I'm a bit surprised by Jonathan Turley. I thought he was smarter than he currently appears.
Bravo PEACH!! I am lurking in admiration of your posts here.
Thank you, penelopesire. I'm sure some freeper will come along to tell me how wrong I am. LOL
Okay - while we are all operating in a vacuum of evidence (that tends to happen when things are done in secret), do you at least acknowledge that the law in question does NOT allow eavesdropping on US citizens or permanent residents at the mere discretion of the President? And that there is no law that does so?
Return to section 1801, subsection (i): "United States person," which includes citizens, legal aliens, and businesses, explicitly "does not include a corporation or an association which is a foreign power."
Well sure, but does that mean that even if you are a citizen you cash in your abovementioned rights by collaborating with terrorists? Yes you do. You have then become an "Agent of a foreign power" as defined under subsection (b)(2)(C). Such agents include anyone who "knowingly engages in sabotage or international terrorism, or activities that are in preparation therefor, for or on behalf of a foreign power," and even includes those who aid and abet or knowingly conspire with those engaged in such behavior.
Wait, that includes anyone, even citizens? Yes — subsection (b)(1) is the part that applies to foreigners; (b)(2) covers everybody. And the whole point of the act is to collect "foreign intelligence information," which is defined under section 1801 subsection (e)(1)(B) as "information that relates to, and if concerning a United States person is necessary to, the ability of the United States to protect against sabotage or international terrorism by a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power."
So you would rather it did apply to US citizens and permanent residents?
According to about half the folks on FR, something along the lines of 36-38 Senators are "agents of a foreign power."
No. I'm not kidding.
I'm sorry, Peach. I didn't know you were a statist.
Thanks, Just did when I heard him on Dayside
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