Unwarranted Outrage - The Times blew our cover.

National Review Online ^ | December 19, 2005, 8:59 a.m. | James S. Robbins

[MeanWestTexan]

You mean before or after Robert Kennedy authorized wiretaps of people working in conjunction with our enemies?

Or FDR's wiretaps?

Not to mention all they did to round up Nazis in America during WWII.

The wiretap protections are creatures of LAW, not Constitution, especially when the proceedings are not uses in Court, as no "life, liberty, or property" is taken --- it is merely looked at.

There is no controversy other than the NYT being upset that the war in Iraq is well on its way to being won.

[gondramB]

"That is because citizens of the United States have not been spied on before (at least to our knowledge) in a legal context. Hence the controversy!"

Well actually abuses by government led to the law being passed in the first place.

[DJ MacWoW]

No one on here has the list of people who were watched and I highly doubt we will ever find out.

We knew who the Clintons were after. And if Bush did ANYTHING the Clintons got away with, we'd know. Heck GWs getting slammed for doing what's right and legal. He'd never get away with what you're suggesting especially since congress was briefed on NSAs activities. The Dems have known all along. They're just politically milking the story.

[Arrowhead1952]

That is because citizens of the United States have not been spied on before (at least to our knowledge) in a legal context. Hence the controversy!

My just pegged.

search for 'Clinton wiretapped on U S citizens'

Clinton NSA Eavesdropped on U.S. Calls

Clinton NSA Eavesdropped on U.S. Calls

[DJ MacWoW]

MY Troll meter has been screaming!

[Ecliptic]

The Constitution was written to protect us, but not be a suicide pact......We have to protect ourselves from our enemies.....That is what is paramount....

[JNL]

I'm beginning to see that, as more and more facts come out and the whole thing is starting to smell.

[Waco]

Remember the kids and grandkids. These are the ones the NYT etal feel free to desroy the future of as they attemp on their own to bring down this Nation!!! And bet yer ass they consider it LEGAL, yes LEGAL. Think about it!!!!

[wouldntbprudent]

MY outrage is not "unwarranted."

The slimes who did this should hang.

[Ecliptic]

This law (FISA) has been on the books since 1978..Jimmy Carter issued an executive order allowing the AG to OK such wire taps without warrants.....I would guess he had a reason besides filling up a piece of paper for issuing the order....

[MEG33]

snip

Judgments on who to monitor are made at the NSA, approved by an NSA shift supervisor and carefully recorded, Hayden said. "The reason I emphasize that this is done at the operational level is to remove any question in your mind that this is in any way politically influenced," he said.

_On the importance of the intelligence, Hayden said, "There are probably no communications more important to what it is we're trying to do to defend the nation ... than those communications that involve al-Qaida and one end of which is inside the homeland."
snip
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051219/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/domestic_spying_box_2

[Arrowhead1952]

Apparently the DUmmie troll has too many FACTS to refute, and left FR for now. Back to DU for the latest DNC talking points.

[Darksheare]

Hmm.. seems your hysteria is on the wrong track as information and history don't back you up.
You aren't from FR are you.

Got zot?

[karnage]

Love that meter!

[MEG33]

MY troll meter is on CRITICAL ALERT!

[LadyDoc]

"blew our cover"?

Any Art Bell listener knew about Echelon since 1997...
http://www.rviewer.com/main/AB03-25-1997Transcript.html

And if you search the old FR logs, you will find discussions of it...

The NYTimes is merely behind the times in covering conspiracy theories...wait til they find out about BigFoot...
;-)

[MeanWestTexan]

No doubt he or she is a troll, but I figure the rare troll might actually learn something.

Here, presumably, the troll has learned the NYT has lied, at great cost to the country, for political gain and to sell a book.

Further, the troll may have learned that the controversy is made from whole cloth -- the actions are permitted by law (FISA 1802), and similar actions were done by Clinton and basically every president before Bush.

This may lead the troll from the darkness.

Probably not, but all it takes is a mustard seed.

[okie01]

NO. There are no "exceptions" to the Bill of Rights just because the President says so. That's the whole purpose of a warrant, to provide a check on the executive by requiring some type of evidence that the "citizen is functioning as an enemy agent."

Except "in time of war". Recall that FDR interned 110,000 Americans citizens of Japanese descent during WW II. Recall that Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War.

Recall that, according to the Constitution itself, national security while in a state of war supersedes some elements of the Bill of Rights (e.g., 4th amendment).

"The United States Constitution is not a suicide pact", Abraham Lincoln, 1863.

[Cboldt]

Further, the wiretaps are specifically authorized by FISA Article 1802.

The Robbins article cites section 1801:

§ 1801. Definitions
Release date: 2005-03-17

As used in this subchapter:

(a) "Foreign power" means--
(1) a foreign government or any component thereof, whether or not recognized by the United States;
(2) a faction of a foreign nation or nations, not substantially composed of United States persons;
(3) an entity that is openly acknowledged by a foreign government or governments to be directed and controlled by such foreign government or governments;
(4) a group engaged in international terrorism or activities in preparation therefor;
(5) a foreign-based political organization, not substantially composed of United States persons; or
(6) an entity that is directed and controlled by a foreign government or governments.

50 USC 1801

So far, so good. The warrantless search provision will be a lock if it refers to 1801(a)(4).

§ 1802. Electronic surveillance authorization without court order; certification by Attorney General; reports to Congressional committees; transmittal under seal; duties and compensation of communication common carrier; applications; jurisdiction of court
Release date: 2005-03-17

(a)
(1) Notwithstanding any other law, the President, through the Attorney General, may authorize electronic surveillance without a court order under this subchapter to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year if the Attorney General authorize electronic surveillance without a court order under this subchapter to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year if the Attorney General certifies in writing under oath that--
(A) the electronic surveillance is solely directed at--
(i) the acquisition of the contents of communications transmitted by means of communications used exclusively between or among foreign powers, as defined in section 1801 (a)(1), (2), or (3) of this title; or
(ii) the acquisition of technical intelligence, other than the spoken communications of individuals, from property or premises under the open and exclusive control of a foreign power, as defined in section 1801 (a)(1), (2), or (3) of this title;
(B) there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party; and
(C) the proposed minimization procedures with respect to such surveillance meet the definition of minimization procedures under section 1801 (h) of this title; and if the Attorney General reports such minimization procedures and any changes thereto to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence at least thirty days prior to their effective date, unless the Attorney General determines immediate action is required and notifies the committees immediately of such minimization procedures and the reason for their becoming effective immediately.

50 USC 1802

[DJ MacWoW]

I'm beginning to see that, as more and more facts come out and the whole thing is starting to smell.

We get the truth eventually but most Americans only get the initial headline. *sigh*