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Rush Limbaugh: We Go to War for Civil Liberties?
RushLimbaugh.com ^ | 12/19/05 | Rush Limbaugh

Posted on 12/19/2005 5:47:52 PM PST by wagglebee

We Go to War for Civil Liberties?
December 19, 2005



BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: I got an e-mail from a friend of mine in St. Louis. "Rush, did you hear what Tim Russert said after Bush's press conference today?" He said, paraphrasing -- and I haven't seen this, so I probably ought to double-check this, but we will. Paraphrasing, Russert said, "People go to war to protect their civil liberties, so isn't counterproductive to take away these liberties while doing it?" All of you out there listening, how many of you think we go to war to protect civil liberties? When is the last time you heard a president declare war on the basis that we gotta go protect our civil liberties? I can't think of one, and I have a fertile memory, my friends. Lots of deep, dark crevices in my brain, and still half of it's tied behind my back to make it fair, and even that I don't remember. We do not go to war to protect our civil liberties. That's like saying we go to war for peace. We don't do that, either.

You go to war to kill people and break things, and that leads to the other things. The primary reason for going to war, you heard the president talk about it time and time again today, to save lives. We go to war, and we are at war to save our lives so that we will then have the opportunity to continue protecting our civil liberties. Our civil liberties are worthless if we are dead! If you are dead and pushing up daisies, if you're sucking dirt inside a casket, do you know what your civil liberties are worth? Zilch, zero, nada. You aren't even here! Ask the families, ask the people who were in the World Trade Center towers right before they were attacked if they are more concerned with the loss of their civil liberties than the loss of their lives. They can't sue Saddam Hussein for loss of civil liberties because they're dead. How can you sue somebody for your civil liberties being taken away when they killed you first? This gets more absurd with the passing of each hour. Who's next on this program? Texarkana, Texas. Isn't that where Perot was born?

CALLER: I'm not sure.
RUSH: I think it is. I could be wrong, but nevertheless, Alan, welcome, nice to have you on the show.

CALLER: It's great to talk to you, Merry Christmas and thank you for everything you do.

RUSH: Thank you, sir.

CALLER: I just wanted to say I really hope that every conservative will be ready and be patient, and God willing it won't happen, but if it does, if there's an attack after the Patriot Act now is dead, every Democrat, especially the leadership, they need to be held responsible for this.

RUSH: Oh. They will be.

CALLER: Because if it's proven that the attack was made possible because the intelligence industry did not have the tools of the Patriot Act to prevent it like they have the last four years, it's the Democrats' responsibility.

RUSH: Said this on Friday. We know who to blame. If we get hit again, we know whose responsibility it is. It's the Democrats in the Senate and these four Republicans: Larry Craig, Chuck Hagel, Lisa Murkowski and Sununu. For what reasons I can't imagine, they voted with the Democrats on this. Probably something to do with civil liberties, because I guess, you know, you gotta be concerned, folks. If you lose your civil liberties, what's life worth? You may as well die. (interruption) Craig doesn't like some of the provisions in the House bill? Larry Craig doesn't like it. Do you know what the provisions in the House bill are that Larry Craig doesn't like? Because I don't know what the provisions in the House bill are that Larry Craig doesn't like. I don't know what Hagel's reason is. I don't know any of their reasons, but I know they weren't sent there to vote this way, that's not what the people who elected them thought was going to end up happening. By the way, can I ask you a question? This whole NSA thing, this is how the template was set. And I'm not going to accept the premise that civil liberties have been violated. Somebody tell me what civil liberties have been violated.

I want to know, give me one person who is in jail who has been falsely charged because of the Patriot Act. Folks, I'm going to leave myself out of this. Tempting but I'm going to leave myself out of this. Patriot Act hasn't been diddly-squat to me. I'm going to leave myself out of this. I want to know, what civil liberty is being violated? I want the press to answer this question. If we're going to go to war to protect our civil liberties, what the hell civil liberties have been lost? What are we losing? What are the civil liberties that we have lost? The press is disloyal as ever, nobody is stopping their anti-American reporting apart from a prosecutor that they demanded. What's the press been stopped from doing, what civil liberties have anybody been prevented from utilizing? What? Somebody tell me. Oh, you know who -- I'm sorry. I'm sorry. My friends, I apologize. I forgot what this is about. We are talking about the civil liberties of terrorists. They're the ones who must be protected. They're the ones who are protected against so-called torture. They must be given the rights -- thank you, Senator McCain -- afforded to US citizens under the US Constitution. They're the ones who must get lawyers. That's right: the Patriot Act is screwing with the terrorists. Sorry.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: We've been playing a little game here, Stump the Staff, during the break at the top of the hour. I asked them a little history question. I know my history, and I think not enough people do, particularly in the news media. I know my history, and I asked them one simple question. "Who said, 'The Constitution is not a suicide pact?'" And they guessed. What did you say? Truman, FDR, Kennedy. Those are the three guesses. Nope. "Who said, 'The Constitution is not a suicide pact?'" It was Abraham Lincoln. The telephone number, if you want to be on the program, is 800-282-2882. The e-mail address is Rush@eibnet.com. Let me give you just a little Civil War history. During the Civil War, there was a group called the Copperheads. Now, the Copperheads have a modern equivalent today, the peace movement of the Democratic Party, or basically the Democratic Party. They were called the Copperheads back then.

A former Ohio congressman, a man by the name of Clement Vallandigham called the prosecution of the Civil War wicked and cruel and he suggested that Lincoln and the Republican Party were using the Civil War to establish a dictatorship. Troops of the 115th Ohio Volunteer Infantry seized Clement Vallandigham from his home in Dayton. A military commission tried him for treasonable utterances and turned him over to the confederate army. Jefferson Davis didn't want Vallandigham any more than Lincoln did and eventually shipped him off to Canada from where he managed to slip back into the United States. Abraham Lincoln lamented, "Must I shoot a simple-minded soldier boy who deserts while I must not touch a hair of a wily agitator who induces him to desert?" Why, this conjures up all kinds of fun things! Grabbing Dingy Harry, putting him on trial, and expelling him to the remote regions of Pakistan where Al-Qaeda is holing up. That's interesting to contemplate. Abraham Lincoln did it. I don't know how he ever got a monument. The Democrats must have been looking the other way. "The Constitution is not a suicide pact," Abraham Lincoln. This is exactly how the Democrats would like it to read today. It is a suicide pact. We must extend constitutional rights to enemy combatants, according to the left, according to Senator McCain. We have the Tim Russert sound bite. Can we play that, please? Here's Russert. This is after the president's press conference today.

RUSSERT: The reason we go to war is to protect our civil liberties. Constant references obviously to President Nixon back in '72 who tried to monitor, eavesdrop on American citizens and the Supreme Court said, no, you can't do that. I remember President Nixon having the doctrine of preventive detention where he would arrest war demonstrators ahead of time and here in Washington put them into RFK stadium and the courts threw that out.

RUSH: Russert, yesterday, the Meet the Press show today, can't get off of Nixon. He can't get off of Watergate. Because that's the mode; that's the template: Bush is Nixon. This is Watergate. The war is Vietnam -- and they're not going to stop until they convince the American people of this. We don't go to war to protect our civil liberties; we go to war to save our lives. Our civil liberties are worthless if we are dead. If we have all assumed room temperature, folks, our civil liberties don't count diddly-squat. Again, I have to ask these people, what civil liberty is being violated here? I would love for the press to answer this question, what civil liberties are we losing? The press can be as disloyal to the country as they've ever been, nobody is stopping them from being anti-American or their reporting being anti-American. Take it back. Pat Fitzgerald put a woman in jail, but they wanted that prosecutor. They wanted that case.
FDR? Did he protect civil liberties when he rounded up 110,000 Japanese and moved them from their homes and businesses to internment camps? And Lincoln suspended habeas corpus? Lincoln actually deported somebody he thought was just an agitator? Somebody he thought was just an agitator? How about RFK, Robert F. Kennedy, authorizing the wiretapping of Martin Luther King, Jr.? Last I looked, Lincoln and FDR are among our greatest presidents ever, among our greatest civil libertarians ever. You want to test this, go tell some Democrat friend of yours that FDR was no friend of civil liberties. See what you get. They think he's the greatest guy we've ever had, and RFK the greatest president we almost had is also considered to be a fabulous guy and he's out there wiretapping Martin Luther King. Are these the kind of civil liberties these people are talking about? I need to have this answered because I can round up all kinds of Democrats that violate civil liberties left and right in the prosecution of war because the Constitution is not a death sentence, Abraham Lincoln. It's not a suicide pact.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: You want to hear some more history? Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus when he had reporters thrown into prison, because they wrote against him in the union. He threw nine members of the Maryland legislature into prison to prevent that state from possibly pulling out of the union. This is all history and when you understand history, it will put him in even greater context just how legally and in a restrained fashion Bush is fighting this war. Lincoln is one of our greatest presidents ever. Here he deports an agitator to the south. The south, "We don't want the guy." They recognize a traitor when they see one. They send him to Canada. Can you imagine sending Dingy Harry over to Pakistan or Afghanistan? Ha-ha! Can you imagine putting New York Times reporters in jail? Except the president didn't do that. Sorry, the prosecutor they asked for did. Can you imagine the president doing this? Folks, folks, I can't tell you what I would do if the president decided to put the press in jail. (Gasping)

We are in the midst of a war, and when you understand that everything changes -- and if you don't have a historical context for these kinds of things, if you think history began the day you were born, and so nothing that has happened outside your lifetime is relevant, you're not going to understand the important things about the country's past and preserving our country's future. This business of going to war to protect civil liberties that Tim Russert's been on the past couple days, the Supreme Court has made clear that at a time of war the president has inherent powers to protect national security. That's why there's one commander-in-chief and not 535 of them. The court's made a distinction between the criminal justice system and military actions, including intelligence activities related to national security. It's all in the opinions, Tim, go read the opinions, they're right there for everybody to read. You people in the media can read these opinions. They're worried about judicial review, go review some judicial works. It's all in there. It's why some of this stuff is so frustrating. I watched these people ask the president questions and comment, and it's clear they don't know any history, either. Can you imagine the argument you would get into with your average run-of-the-mill White House reporter if sit them down and say, "You know what Lincoln did to people like you? Put you in jail!"

"He did not!"

"Yes, he did."

"Well, he must have had a reason."

They can't really complain about Lincoln because he ended slavery. How can they start criticizing Lincoln, the libs? And you know what else he did? He put nine members of the Maryland legislature in jail too, and he suspended the writ of habeas corpus and he deported some former congressman from Ohio who was an agitator, and you think what's going on now poses a threat to the country? You're the threat! But you send an average reporter down and give them just this little bit of history and I guarantee you it will be all over the world that Limbaugh lies, makes things up just to fit his context. They won't even bother looking it up, they'll find it so absurd.

"Not possible in this country," they'll say.

END TRANSCRIPT
Read the Background Material...
(NRO: Mark Steyn: The Defeaticrats)
(Roll Call of U.S. Senate Vote on the Patriot Act)

The Military Trial of Clement L. Vallandigham, 1863...
(Military Commission Transcript of the trial, May 1863)
(Perry argument for the Government)
(Pugh argument for Vallandigham)
(General Ambrose Burnside's statement)
*Note: Links to content outside RushLimbaugh.com usually become inactive over time.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bush; civilliberties; dittoheads; fatdruggedoutbozo; iraq; patriotact; rushlimbaugh; talkradio; terrorism
I knew Rush would be on fire today and this segment was one of his all time best!
1 posted on 12/19/2005 5:47:54 PM PST by wagglebee
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To: MNJohnnie

Ping!


2 posted on 12/19/2005 5:48:18 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

and with Levin batting behind him, they both kept on hitting the ball out of the park today.


3 posted on 12/19/2005 5:53:36 PM PST by JohnLongIsland
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To: wagglebee
If we get hit again, we know whose responsibility it is. It's the Democrats in the Senate and these four Republicans: Larry Craig, Chuck Hagel, Lisa Murkowski and Sununu.

This is another piece in the Democrats' complete meltdown this week--another piece being their admission that they have no plans for the WOT.

They have given Bush a Not My Fault Guarantee. I hope there will never be another attack, and if there is, Bush can say, honestly, "We have to wonder what changed from September 12 to now to let this happen." And FOX, at least, will show that clip of Harry Reid proclaiming "We defeated the Patriot Act today!" to applause.

4 posted on 12/19/2005 5:53:37 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Warning: Adult language, but great message: http://foamy.libertech.net/noxmas.swf)
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To: JohnLongIsland

I don't get to hear Levin where I live, I love to hear him when he's on Rush's or Sean's shows though. It is a real treat when he finds time to come spend some time with us here online.


5 posted on 12/19/2005 5:57:46 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee
All members of the Court joined in rejecting the government's argument that the Bill of Rights simply did not apply in wartime. The majority opinion contains a somewhat rhetorical passage for which it is justly famous:

The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people, equally in war and in peace, and covers with the shield of its protection all classes of men, at all times, and under all circumstances. No doctrine, involving more pernicious consequences, was ever invented by the wit of man than that any of its provisions can be suspended during any of the great exigencies of government. Such a doctrine leads directly to anarchy or despotism, but the theory of necessity on which it is based is false; for the government, within the Constitution, has all the powers granted to it, which are necessary to preserve its existence; as has been happily proved by the result of the great effort to throw off its just authority.

Civil Liberty and the Civil War: The Indianapolis Treason Trials

6 posted on 12/19/2005 6:05:57 PM PST by KDD (A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse.)
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To: wagglebee

bttt caught about 1/3 of it great stuff


7 posted on 12/19/2005 6:20:40 PM PST by txhurl (hook'em)
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To: wagglebee

Burnside's statement is a must read.


8 posted on 12/19/2005 6:31:34 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: wagglebee

Face it folks, this war will be a lot more interesting when 2-3 million New Yorkers are littering the streets NYC. Be great for ratings. Kids and grandkids? The NYT has already given the it's "P*ss on the kid$" blessing. It's really gonna be a lota fun you know. You can bet the NYT feels it is entirely justified in it's attempts to help the enemy destroy this nation. Bet on it.


9 posted on 12/19/2005 6:54:22 PM PST by Waco
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To: Waco

Unfortunately if (when?) it does happen the Dems and their leftwing radical buddies will say it was plotted by Bush to justify his actions. They (Dummies) have no shame.


10 posted on 12/19/2005 7:38:35 PM PST by Romanov
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To: wagglebee

...All of you out there listening, how many of you think we go to war to protect civil liberties? When is the last time you heard a president declare war on the basis that we gotta go protect our civil liberties? I can't think of one, and I have a fertile memory, my friends....

You worthless assclown, our nation was born in a war to protect our civil liberties.

George Washington ring a bell?


...Our civil liberties are worthless if we are dead!...


Ben Franklin spits on you.

And so do I.

Why are your medical records so damned private if you've got nothing to hide?

Oh, and if we're at war, why are the borders wide open?


11 posted on 12/19/2005 8:14:53 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Why are your medical records private if you've got nothing to hide?)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

"The Constitution is not a suicide pact," Abraham Lincoln


12 posted on 12/19/2005 8:17:20 PM PST by Sybeck1 (Dr. Adrian Rogers, September 12, 1931 - November 15, 2005)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
!) Get a grip on yourself, man.

2) Get a history book. Read up on the Revolution. Face up to the fact that your publik screwel education CHEATED you of a solid understanding.

3) Learn to write properly. FReepers might pay better attention to you.

13 posted on 12/19/2005 8:18:57 PM PST by Alkhin (He thinks I need keeping in order - Peregrin Took, FOTR)
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To: Sybeck1

..."The Constitution is not a suicide pact," Abraham Lincoln...

As he repealed it.

How did that work out for him, anyway?

I forget my History. Did he live happily, ever after, a loved and respected hero of the nation, worshipped and fawned over in his old age?


14 posted on 12/19/2005 8:22:02 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Besides that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?)
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To: wagglebee

We go to war for Civil Liberties? I thought it was to protect our precious bodily fluids? Lord knows we don't want them impurified.


15 posted on 12/19/2005 8:22:18 PM PST by Tuxedo (Merry Christmas!)
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To: Alkhin

So George Washington was not the president of a nation born in war over the God given rights of men?


16 posted on 12/19/2005 8:24:31 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Telling the truth in a time of lies is a revolutionary act.)
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To: Rush Limbaugh

Well, are you an assclown?

George Washington?

Heard of him?


17 posted on 12/19/2005 8:26:53 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Telling the truth in a time of lies is a revolutionary act.)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
If they want to suspend civil liberties, there are two legal ways to do it:

1. A Constitutional Amendment

or

2. Declare martial law.

If it's just for wartime, why do they have a problem with letting the "patriot" act sunset? If it's just for wartime, then why not declare martial law?

I'll tell you why. Because it's NOT just for wartime. This is the wishlist of big government since Clinton. The Clinton justice department wanted these powers, too. And now, the next Clinton justice department will have them, should she be elected. I guess then we'll see how everyone feels about making this anti-Constitutional, big government boondoggle permanent.

Civil liberties make America America.
18 posted on 12/19/2005 8:30:59 PM PST by mysterio
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
George Washington was president over a nation born in war over legal representation. Those rights had to be first be defined as God-given to spell out exactly who came first in the heirarchy of law. God FIRST, then national leader. As opposed to the Divine Right of the King, who was also presumed to represent the 'civil rights' of men but failed doing so because legal representation was severely limited. So you and I can go round and round all day about whether not civil rights was an issue in the Revolution. I find it fatuous to even comtemplate that terminology, considering that wasn't even in the play at the time of war. I do believe the Articles of Confederation came before the Bill of Rights.

It denigrates the Constitution to say its all about civil rights. The Constitution is THE LAW. Period, and should be enforced as such.

as for "civil rights" during war : there are hostiles, and their are civilians. The safety of the civilians comes before the hostiles. If someone plots and acts to hurt/damage/kill a civilian, they are HOSTILE, and shoudl be treated as such.

19 posted on 12/19/2005 8:31:29 PM PST by Alkhin (He thinks I need keeping in order - Peregrin Took, FOTR)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

..live happily, ever after, a loved and respected hero of the nation, worshipped and fawned over in his old age?

I have visited the Lincoln Memorial, I would describe it as a place where he is adulated and yes 'fawned over' FOR ALL AGES. What a strange question!


20 posted on 12/19/2005 8:34:56 PM PST by sgtyork (jack murtha and the media -- unconditional surrender used to mean the enemy surrendered)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

Abraham Lincoln is a loved, respected hero who has a monument erected to him in D.C. Not sure I get your point.


21 posted on 12/19/2005 8:53:26 PM PST by GOPPachyderm
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To: Waco

W wasn't kidding when he called out the senators from NY, CA and NV.


22 posted on 12/19/2005 9:00:04 PM PST by txhurl (hook'em)
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To: mysterio

... If it's just for wartime,...

They would have declared war.


23 posted on 12/19/2005 9:01:17 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Telling the truth in a time of lies is a revolutionary act.)
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To: wagglebee
During the Civil War, there was a group called the Copperheads. Now, the Copperheads have a modern equivalent today, the peace movement of the Democratic Party, or basically the Democratic Party. They were called the Copperheads back then.

It comforts me to know that America successfully dealt with traitorous factions during previous wars.

"What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done there is nothing new under the sun" (ECC 1:9)


RUSH: Russert, yesterday, the Meet the Press show today, can't get off of Nixon. He can't get off of Watergate. Because that's the mode; that's the template: Bush is Nixon. This is Watergate. The war is Vietnam -- and they're not going to stop until they convince the American people of this.

Fortunately America's enemies, both foreign and domestic, make the mistake of fighting the last war. G-d willing the Left's strategy of casting the WoT as yet another Vietnam will prove as ineffective as the French Maginot Line during WWII.
24 posted on 12/19/2005 9:05:59 PM PST by Milhous (Sarcasm - the last refuge of an empty mind.)
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To: Alkhin

It was about the expectation of the colonists to be insured the god given rights of Englishmen.

The taxes without representation were the last straws in a bale.

...The Constitution is THE LAW....


Was.

It was the law.


25 posted on 12/19/2005 9:11:47 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Telling the truth in a time of lies is a revolutionary act.)
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To: wagglebee

Rush is an imbecile.


26 posted on 12/19/2005 10:43:58 PM PST by Protagoras (Many people teach their children that Jesus is story character but Santa Claus is real.)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
As he repealed it.

Ouch. And well said, BTW.

27 posted on 12/20/2005 6:52:48 AM PST by Unknown Pundit
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