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They call themselves libertarians; I think they're antisocial bastards
Guardian ^ | 12/20/05 | George Monbiot

Posted on 12/19/2005 8:30:57 PM PST by Pikamax

The road-rage lobby couldn't have been more wrong. Organisations such as the Association of British Drivers or Safe Speed - the boy racers' club masquerading as a road-safety campaign - have spent years claiming that speeding doesn't cause accidents. Safe Speed, with the help of some of the most convoluted arguments I've ever read, even seeks to prove that speed cameras "make our roads more dangerous". Other groups, such as Motorists Against Detection (officially known as Mad), have been toppling, burning and blowing up the hated cameras. These and about a thousand such campaigns maintain that speed limits, speed traps and the government's "war on the motorist" are shakedown operations whose sole purpose is to extract as much money as possible from the poor oppressed driver.

Well last week the Department for Transport published the results of the study it had commissioned into the efficacy of its speed cameras. It found that the number of drivers speeding down the roads where fixed cameras had been installed fell by 70%, and the number exceeding the speed limit by more than 15mph dropped by 91%. As a result, 42% fewer people were killed or seriously injured in those places than were killed or injured on the same stretches before the cameras were erected. The number of deaths fell by more than 100 a year. The people blowing up speed cameras have blood on their hands.

But this is not, or not really, an article about speed, or cameras, or even cars. It is about the rise of the antisocial bastards who believe they should be allowed to do what they want, whenever they want, regardless of the consequences.

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: liberals; liberaltarians; libertarians
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To: Hank Rearden
Hank Rearden wrote :

"Republicans" are too cowardly to admit that they're really greedy, power-mad, control-freak Big Stupid Government political hacks who don't hesitate to lie about all these aspects of their personalities in order to get elected to pursue their government-growth, deficit-enhancing agenda. They also stomp the First Amendment and choke kittens.

The difference between our two statements? I'm right.


Exactly.
61 posted on 12/20/2005 6:52:40 AM PST by mysterio
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To: r9etb

"I suspect you have no idea what you're talking about."

No point in getting snippy, Al.


62 posted on 12/20/2005 8:12:39 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Pikamax
with the help of some of the most convoluted arguments I've ever read

This coming from a leftist is just too ironic.

63 posted on 12/20/2005 8:25:17 AM PST by CaptRon (Pedecaris alive or Raisuli dead)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Good morning.
"They are cultural Marxists..."

Gee, Frank, what was the point of putting all those words on your Freeper page if you don't know what they mean?

I don't want to bash most conservatives, only the simple minded, anal retentive ones who are almost as dangerous as the liberals.

While we are on the subject of anal retention, what is your purpose here.

Michael Frazier
64 posted on 12/20/2005 8:39:26 AM PST by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: JCEccles

You're confusing anarchists with libertarians. Libertarians want limited government. Anarchists want no government. Distinguish their philosophies more carefully next time.


65 posted on 12/20/2005 8:43:02 AM PST by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: RegulatorCountry

LOL! No snippiness -- I was merely amused by your presumption to know what I think, based on my informed disdain of both socialists and libertarians.


66 posted on 12/20/2005 8:52:00 AM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb

"I was merely amused by your presumption to know what I think, based on my informed disdain of both socialists and libertarians."

Which does seem to imply that you would find government intervention a positive, more often than I would, does it not?

Care to elaborate?


67 posted on 12/20/2005 8:55:37 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry
Which does seem to imply that you would find government intervention a positive, more often than I would, does it not? Care to elaborate?

Sure -- I have no problem, for instance, with speed limits near schools. I have no problem with reasonable regulations, roads, armies, or legitimate "common welfare" sorts of things. You know -- stuff that's spelled out by the Constitution.

68 posted on 12/20/2005 8:59:28 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Howie66
"Libertarians" are to cowrdly to admit the TRUTH. They are really Socialists that lack the intellectual honesty (and/or nuts) to admit it.

I don't find that to be true. There are some well-intentioned Christian libertarians who seem to have forgotten that our rights come from God, and that He does not endow us with the right to do evil.

I find that most libertarians are simply libertines who care only about protecting their sins and their money.

69 posted on 12/20/2005 9:02:12 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: r9etb

"You know -- stuff that's spelled out by the Constitution."

I'm in complete support of a strict constructionist reading of the Constitution, myself. That "common welfare" thingie, though, has tended to get out of hand over the years.


70 posted on 12/20/2005 9:07:03 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RabidBartender
RabidBartender wrote:

Bring back tpaine!!!!!

I'll drink to that...

71 posted on 12/20/2005 9:16:08 AM PST by don asmussen
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To: Pikamax

Monbiot, is that french for Moonbat.?..


72 posted on 12/20/2005 9:53:01 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood; Pikamax

Francis Dashwood wrote:

Screw the libertarians. Their only purpose here on Free Republic is to bash the religious folks, promote drug abuse and sex perverts, cause trouble for conservatives and help the Democrats...


______________________________________


The founder of FR seems to think otherwise:


REPUBLICAN LIBERTY CAUCUS POSITION STATEMENT
Address:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-rlc/721810/posts


73 posted on 12/20/2005 10:07:54 AM PST by don asmussen
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Replies
Address:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-rlc/721810/replies?c=83

ThomasJefferson:
"So Jim, You advocate these positions?"


Mostly, yes. But I'd rather repeal the 16th and abolish the Income Tax and the IRS altogether. And I do not agree with disclosure of campaign contributions. This is a privacy issue. I'd also like to repeal the 17th. And I'd like to go through all of the ABC agencies and abolish those that are not authorized by the Constitution, ie, most of them. I would also like to see the RLC take a pro-life stance. In the very least, to recognize that the Federal Government has no say in the matter whatsoever.
Oh, yeah, and I'd also like to repeal most of the so-called federal crimes. I believe the Constitution leaves crime fighting to the states. Also, eliminate any chance of double jeopardy thru overlapping federal and state jurisdictions.

83 posted on 07/25/2002 8:35:16 PM PDT by Jim Robinson


74 posted on 12/20/2005 10:19:33 AM PST by don asmussen
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Comment #75 Removed by Moderator

To: Howie66
Is there such a thing as being too stupid to be a freeper?

You clearly have no idea what a socialist is, nor any idea what a Libertarian is.

76 posted on 12/20/2005 10:28:09 AM PST by chronic_loser ((Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.))
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To: Howie66
"Libertarians" are to cowrdly to admit the TRUTH. They are really Socialists that lack the intellectual honesty (and/or nuts) to admit it.

Did you know that Ronald Reagan called libertarianism the "heart and soul of conservatism"?

77 posted on 12/20/2005 10:37:00 AM PST by jmc813
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To: billbears
many here who are "conservative" think that means using the powers of government to enforce socially conservative agendas. I am an evangelical Christian and believe strongly in the social agenda of the Christian right (I helped set up one of the first metro right to life centers in the USA), but I disagree strongly that the proper mechanism for this is the federal government. I am STRONGLY pro-life but I believe there is enough room for differing opinions that I am for the reversal of ROE to hand the matter back to the states. I am against drug abuse, but am against federal laws. I am against many social vices, and would work to expel "adult" bookstores from municipalities, but am against federal laws regulating same.

Many modern "social conservatives" are really just mirror images of the "liberals" (actually they are not liberals at all, but statists) in that they both want to destroy individual and state freedoms......, they just differ on the kind of fed that should destroy them.

Much of the rage of the left would be abated if conservatives were true conservatives, seeking to DEVOLVE power from the fed. They hate Bush so much because they see themselves in him, greedily slurping power to D.C., to accomplish a social agenda. The fact that they do it does not justify conservatives ignoring the constitution to "get back" at them. The way to destroy statism is not to USE the power of the stste to fight what the last bunch of statists did...., it is to abolish the power of leviathan.

If that is the definition of conservativism, then I think it is dead. All we have are moralist statists, and deviant statists, with most "conservatives" unsure of what the word means anymore.

78 posted on 12/20/2005 10:42:57 AM PST by chronic_loser ((Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.))
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To: r9etb
I have no problem with reasonable regulations, roads, armies, or legitimate "common welfare" sorts of things. You know -- stuff that's spelled out by the Constitution.

Do you have an absolutionist view of the 2nd Amendment?

79 posted on 12/20/2005 10:45:07 AM PST by jmc813
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To: r9etb

As a matter of fact, the Constitution spells out no such thing. It rather leaves those matters to the states and the people, and forbids Congress from doing what it does anyway, which is poke their nose into every conceivable avenue. Now, as a result of such idiocy, we have Congress attempting to regulate the use of steroids in baseball, regulating gun proximity to schools, telling states that clauses agreed to by consenting parties that establish judicial jurisdiction are not binding, and all sorts of nonsense expressly forbidden in Amendment 10. They simply ignore it.


80 posted on 12/20/2005 10:56:00 AM PST by chronic_loser ((Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.))
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