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Military chaplains told to shy from Jesus
The Washington Times ^ | 12/21/05 | Julia Duin

Posted on 12/21/2005 7:24:58 AM PST by piperpilot

To pray -- or not to pray -- in Jesus' name is the question plaguing an increasing number of U.S. military chaplains, one of whom began a multiday hunger strike outside the White House yesterday.

"I am a Navy chaplain being fired because I pray in Jesus' name," said Navy Lt. Gordon Klingenschmitt, who will be holding 6 p.m. prayer vigils daily in Lafayette Park.

The hunger strike is intended to persuade President Bush to issue an executive order allowing military chaplains to pray according to their individual faith traditions. The American Center for Law and Justice has gathered 173,000 signatures on a petition seeking an executive order.

Seventy-three members of Congress have joined the request, saying in an Oct. 25 letter to the president, "In all branches of the military, it is becoming increasingly difficult for Christian chaplains to use the name of Jesus when praying."

About 80 percent of U.S. troops are Christian, the legislators wrote, adding that military "censorship" of chaplains' prayers disenfranchises "hundreds of thousands of Christian soldiers in the military who look to their chaplains for comfort, inspiration and support."

Official military policy allows any sort of prayer, but Lt. Klingenschmitt says that in reality, evangelical Protestant prayers are censored. He cites his training at the Navy Chaplains School in Newport, R.I., where "they have clipboards and evaluators who evaluate your prayers, and they praise you if you pray just to God," he said. "But if you pray in Jesus' name, they counsel you."

Muslim, Jewish and Roman Catholic chaplains are likewise told not to pray in the name of Allah, in Hebrew or in the name of the Trinity, he added.

(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: aclj; chaplain; chaplains; christianity; discrimination; jesus; klingenschmitt; military; prayer
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This is one of those stories that demonstrates how right has become wrong in this PC society. So sad.
1 posted on 12/21/2005 7:24:59 AM PST by piperpilot
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To: piperpilot; xzins
"The hunger strike is intended to persuade President Bush to issue an executive order allowing military chaplains to pray according to their individual faith traditions."

Why would he demand approval by the state? After all, his faith tells him what he must do....and he answers not to any earthly authority on such a matter as this.

2 posted on 12/21/2005 7:28:45 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: piperpilot
Military chaplains told to shy from Jesus

Yeah, it's better they keep their sermons limited to quantum physics.

WTF is wrong with this country?

3 posted on 12/21/2005 7:29:01 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: piperpilot
Hmm. Seems I have heard something similar before. Oh yeah.

"And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice."

4 posted on 12/21/2005 7:29:04 AM PST by ladtx ("It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it." -- -- General Douglas MacArthur)
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To: piperpilot

The new tactic being taken is freedom of speech. Freedom of religion wasn't working too well. Maybe they'll take that tact.

You know, it's hard to believe this is happening in America. Even in communist China and Russia they are beginning to have MORE religious freedom than the U.S.. It's shocking and dare I say, another "sign of the times"? Truly, even an atheist or an agnostic can see SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG!


5 posted on 12/21/2005 7:30:53 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: piperpilot

Aint this some Bullshit?

When a Chaplain has to avoid using the name of Jesus Christ something is damned wrong with this world.

Now I know I am a fallen Christian, but I do pray, and when I do it is to God, Jesus Christ ,and the Holy Spirt,: One Trinity. They cannot be separated.

For a Christian Chaplain to be told he cannot pray to Christ is just plain horse crap.Where the hell do assholes who come up with this crap think the name Christian came from?


6 posted on 12/21/2005 7:31:57 AM PST by sgtbono2002
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To: anniegetyourgun

Yes, your'e right. However, the Bible specifically says that political power is given to people here on earth and we are to respect our leaders. I think he should be given power to do his job by the state; the state pays his salary. What I don't understand is why this is happening under a Christian president. I would have expected it under a Clinton and the new Carter, but not this president.


7 posted on 12/21/2005 7:33:46 AM PST by twigs
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: twigs

"Mr. Baugham said the 350 chaplains he oversees are concerned about a new set of guidelines issued in August after complaints about Christian evangelism at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. The Air Force guidelines allow "a brief, nonsectarian prayer" during military ceremonies "to add a heightened sense of seriousness or solemnity, not to advance specific religious beliefs."

This has nothing to do with the President. It has to do with the DOD, Air Force. From an AF wife.


9 posted on 12/21/2005 7:39:01 AM PST by spkpls4 (Jeremiah 29:11)
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To: piperpilot
This post reminded me of a favorite old hymn, "Stand up, stand up for Jesus, ye soldiers of the cross"
It is sad.
10 posted on 12/21/2005 7:39:30 AM PST by MaryFromMichigan
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To: piperpilot

I'll bet that Muslim chaplins have no problem with praying in Allahs name.


11 posted on 12/21/2005 7:40:46 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: piperpilot
from WND yesterday:

The American Center for Law and Justice sponsored an online petition drive that urges President Bush to restore the right of Christian chaplains to pray "according to their faith" – for example, using Jesus' name in a prayer.

12 posted on 12/21/2005 7:42:12 AM PST by lunarbicep (There is something about a closet that makes a skeleton terribly restless.)
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To: twigs

"However, the Bible specifically says that political power is given to people here on earth and we are to respect our leaders."
---
With all due respect, their wrong.
Only political power is given to men; spiritual power comes from God.


13 posted on 12/21/2005 7:44:04 AM PST by Stark_GOP
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To: piperpilot
This is one of those stories that demonstrates how right has become wrong in this PC society. So sad.

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter
Isaiah 5:20

14 posted on 12/21/2005 7:44:49 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: piperpilot

The vermin who are pushing these policies in the military need to be identified and eradicated from their positions.


15 posted on 12/21/2005 7:44:53 AM PST by isrul
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To: piperpilot



Matt.10:33

[33] But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Mark.8:38

[38] Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Luke.9:25

[26] For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Rom.1:16

[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom.9:33

[33] As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom.10:11

[11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

2Tim.1:8

[8] Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

1Pet.4:16

[16] Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

1John.2:28

[28] And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

I think it may be very possible that He is coming SOON!

I pray Chritsian clergy remain unashamed and do not deny Him.

Isn't interesting how His name, Jesus threatens them so that they do not want it uttered. The day will come when EVERY kneww WILL bow and recognize Him.

Rom. 14:11

[11] For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Phil.2:10

[10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Never for a nano second believe I am worthy of His love. Over the years, though, I've been awed by Him and eternally grateful fo Him. He's REAL!



16 posted on 12/21/2005 7:45:08 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: nmh
Truly, even an atheist or an agnostic can see SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG!

Exactly, and it will cause some of those athiests and agnostics to see the light! I'm not saying it's a good thing, and I'm not saying we shouldn't fight against it. But the Lord will use this. It'll be interesting to see!

17 posted on 12/21/2005 7:45:47 AM PST by Nea Wood (A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. Proverbs 13:22)
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To: Stark_GOP

No, the Bible right in what it asks. We are to pray FOR them that they soften their hearts and come around. Yeah, I know it seems like a waste of time but books in the Bible seem to suggest that God can change His mind and through Him the hearts of those who are not part of the body of Christ. Ultimately it is up to Him.


18 posted on 12/21/2005 7:47:18 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: piperpilot
Muslim, Jewish and Roman Catholic chaplains are likewise told not to pray in the name of Allah, in Hebrew or in the name of the Trinity, he added.

Hmm, what happened to the vaunted "seperation of church and state" the Left loves so much? I assume the ACLU will sue any day now to keep the government from telling chaplains how to pray.

19 posted on 12/21/2005 7:47:44 AM PST by montag813
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To: All

Last time I checked, Christianity is about Christ. I have set about reading the Bible, both Old and New Testaments. So far, I'm still in the Old Testament, but all I could think of when I read this Washington Times story was how all sorts of calamities befell the Israelites for their stiff-necked refusal to follow God's will and turning to worship false idols. I fear that our society is following suit.


20 posted on 12/21/2005 7:47:46 AM PST by piperpilot
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To: sgtbono2002
I'm as fallen as you and it makes me SEETHE.

Ole Lucifer is laughing his arse off at out political correctness. He's having a ball out there. This is outrageous!
21 posted on 12/21/2005 7:48:51 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: twigs

I don't know ... at times Bush puzzles me ... land for peace - gimme a break! GWB has an undergraduate degree in WORLD history ... he was a former Sunday school teacher ... he should know the score on prophecy ... I believe he is trying to return evil with good but there are times when he may want to speak up MORE on issues. Only God knows what's going on with Bush ... .


22 posted on 12/21/2005 7:51:33 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: trebb

I just so happen to be reading Isaiah right now. Wow.


23 posted on 12/21/2005 7:52:23 AM PST by piperpilot
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To: piperpilot

And while you are at it, can you kinda play down that whole God thing?


24 posted on 12/21/2005 7:53:06 AM PST by Casloy
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To: Nea Wood
Allot of atheists and agnostics are secretly grateful to Christians ... they may not believe but they know deep down that most Christians are good people. If Christians can be strong some will come around. If they falter and give in, then they'll have more ammo to not want to believe - that it's not worth believing or standing up for.
25 posted on 12/21/2005 7:54:38 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: nmh

I agree with you. I don't understand him either.


26 posted on 12/21/2005 7:55:47 AM PST by twigs
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To: Bavarian Leprechaun

"It is very possible that a bunch of sailors who attend the protestant services onboard ship - would certainly be offended by the mere mention of: "Jesus"."

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

It is the Protestant take on this, praying in Jesus' name that makes this offensive. Protestants, if they pray at all, pray in His name. Other "Christian" faiths will pray to others, such as Mary, and other dead Saints etc., so that would not be as offensive to them.


27 posted on 12/21/2005 7:56:54 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: spkpls4

Yes, it has to do with the DOD as you say. But from what I understand, he wants the president to intercede with an executive order. I really don't know if that is feasible. But I still believe that a representative of the state (whoever that may be) should approve a Christian chaplain calling on the name of Jesus who is the foundation of the faith. I somehow can't image that Muslim chaplins aren't allowed to mention Allah. Whoever issued that rule would become subject to a death fatwah.


28 posted on 12/21/2005 8:04:50 AM PST by twigs
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To: twigs

Yes, and I can't imagine any chaplain, be he/her Christian, Muslim, or otherwise, choosing to accept not praying in the name of the one they represent. I look forward to seeing what our military chaplains choose to do with this.


29 posted on 12/21/2005 8:07:42 AM PST by spkpls4 (Jeremiah 29:11)
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To: piperpilot

Maybe Christians should let our "leaders" know that they will no longer enlist in the service. That will change their minds in a hurry.


30 posted on 12/21/2005 8:10:59 AM PST by bella1
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: piperpilot

I think I'll go ask a chaplain. There are a few around here.


32 posted on 12/21/2005 8:12:38 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: piperpilot

I don't mind hearing about God ... play it UP!

People need to take note of what you are saying ... .


33 posted on 12/21/2005 8:15:53 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: Bavarian Leprechaun
The bottom line is they want to erase Jesus and anything to do with Him from the earth. They're methodically doing just that. His name alone, threatens them so.
34 posted on 12/21/2005 8:17:40 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: piperpilot

I find this situation utterly disgraceful. All civilian & mililitary leadership involved in this policy should be completely ashamed.


35 posted on 12/21/2005 8:17:45 AM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: piperpilot
This is one of those stories that demonstrates how right has become wrong in this PC society. So sad.

This is one of those stories where I think there's probably a lot more to the story. Sorry, but these "I'm being persecuted" stories never seem to pan out the way they're originally reported.

Here's what makes me wonder:

He says he got in hot water during the summer of 2004 while aboard the USS Anzio for preaching an evangelistic sermon at the funeral of a Catholic sailor in a base chapel. The lieutenant said he was reprimanded by two senior chaplains and, in March, sent ashore to Norfolk.

What, precisely, did he say in his sermon? Perhaps the senior chaplains had a legitimate complaint -- perhaps Lt. Klingenschmitt was bashing Catholics, for example (something that is not unheard-of among ardent evangelical protestants) -- in which case he deserved to be reprimanded.

I've learned to distrust stories like this. I suspect that Lt. Klingenschmitt is not as innocent as he makes himself out to be.

36 posted on 12/21/2005 8:18:30 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Texas_Jarhead

We'll see who's who within the military clergy ... some will want that pension and medical benefits ... what's that I heard about the love of money ... ? ;)


37 posted on 12/21/2005 8:19:47 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: piperpilot

I agree with you. I believe that we as Christians have a responsbility to call on our God by name, to pray and read His word, obeying it. But unlike some in this thread, I do think that when a chaplain is paid by the state, the state has the right and responsibility to lay out the rules by which he goes about his job. If the state refuses to allow the chaplain to pray in the Name of Jesus, then I think what you're reading about God's warning to the Israelites has some relevancy. I personally believe that God has blessed this nation because we as a nation have called on Him. I also believe that we as a nation will lose that blessing if we neglect Him and disobey His commandments. The state who puts its Christian chaplains in this type of position, whether to obey the state or God, when he is called upon by the Bible to do both, is slowing reaping wrath upon itself.


38 posted on 12/21/2005 8:19:50 AM PST by twigs
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To: spkpls4

Yeppers...talk to Rummie


39 posted on 12/21/2005 8:19:50 AM PST by joesnuffy (A camel once bit my sister-we knew just what to do- gather large rocks & squash her-Mullet Ho'mar)
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To: piperpilot

Well, there goes our military.


40 posted on 12/21/2005 8:21:07 AM PST by Amish with an attitude (An armed society is a polite society)
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To: twigs
What I don't understand is why this is happening under a Christian president. I would have expected it under a Clinton and the new Carter, but not this president...

Uh, I think we've been duped. This and a whole host of other things, but the way he is treating Isreal is the worst.

41 posted on 12/21/2005 8:21:51 AM PST by sangoo
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Or the Wiccan chaplains in the name of the horned god.


42 posted on 12/21/2005 8:22:14 AM PST by joesnuffy (A camel once bit my sister-we knew just what to do- gather large rocks & squash her-Mullet Ho'mar)
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To: piperpilot
I love the prophets!

Merry Christmas and God bless

43 posted on 12/21/2005 8:22:44 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: piperpilot

Sending our sons and daughters into battle without allowing them to call upon the name of their Savior and worship freely
is patently wrong...

To secure these kinds of freedom for those oppressed and to maintain these kinds of freedom right here at home...

Rummie...shape these people up ASAP

imo


44 posted on 12/21/2005 8:24:28 AM PST by joesnuffy (A camel once bit my sister-we knew just what to do- gather large rocks & squash her-Mullet Ho'mar)
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: nmh

"No, the Bible right in what it asks. We are to pray FOR them that they soften their hearts and come around. Yeah, I know it seems like a waste of time but books in the Bible seem to suggest that God can change His mind and through Him the hearts of those who are not part of the body of Christ. Ultimately it is up to Him."
---
Sorry. The Bible commands you to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ.
You are right that we should pray for them but I will not deny His name.


46 posted on 12/21/2005 8:25:35 AM PST by Stark_GOP
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To: piperpilot

What does the Sec of Def have to say about this?


47 posted on 12/21/2005 8:27:38 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: piperpilot
"No Islamic chaplain has been refused to pray in the name of Allah, as far as we know. Neither has a rabbi been rebuked for making references to Hanukkah, and no Catholic priest has been rebuked for referring to the Blessed Virgin Mary."

Since Catholics worship Jesus and place Mary below the Messiah, sounds like they are restricted from practicing their faith, too.
48 posted on 12/21/2005 8:28:20 AM PST by Freepdonia (Victory is Ours! (but not for DUmmies :-))
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To: twigs
I agree with all you've said.

There are ALWAYS consequences for foolish behavior.

This is also true to:

Hebrews 12:6,7

[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

No matter how you cut it, it's not good. Believer or otherwise. It only shows how outrageous and confident that godless have become to request THIS.
49 posted on 12/21/2005 8:29:12 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: nmh
You know, it's hard to believe this is happening in America. Even in communist China and Russia they are beginning to have MORE religious freedom than the U.S.. It's shocking and dare I say, another "sign of the times"? Truly, even an atheist or an agnostic can see SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG!

The same thing has been going on for 2000 years but the protectors of the faith used to have no tolerance for those who would do the church harm, so the faith was able to survive. Same with Islam but their protectors still don't tolerate those who would do them harm so Islam will continue to survive whereas Christianity will likely disappear for failing to terrorize its enemies.

50 posted on 12/21/2005 8:34:59 AM PST by Jim_Curtis
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