Posted on 12/23/2005 5:44:48 AM PST by governsleastgovernsbest
by Mark Finkelstein
December 23, 2005 - 08:40
What the Today show probably intended as a warm-'n-fuzzy holiday segment just veered wildly off course when a rabbi spoke some unvarnished truth.
The topic was "December Dilemma: Interfaith Holdidays," and dealt with the issue of celebrating the holidays in families with children where the parents are of different religions.
Footage was played of a family with a Jewish wife, a Christian husband and a couple of very cute daughters. They were predictably shown admiring both a menorah and a Christmas tree.
Back in the studio, David Gregory interviewed "The God Squad," Rabbi Marc Gellman and Monsignor Thomas Hartman, who for years have made joint appearances to discuss religious matters.
When Gregory asked the rabbi if there was anything wrong with bringing the children of mixed marriages up in some kind of combo religion, I had the feeling he was anticipating [as was I], a PC response. Instead, he got a shot of candor right between the eyes:
"[Kids] have to know how to answer when asked [as to their religion] 'what are you?' If they answer 'both,' that's answering that Jesus is and isn't the Messiah, that Christmas is and isn't the birth of the Savior. That's insane. That's crazy. And it shouldn't be put on a child to have to make those kinds of decisions."
Bravo, Rabbi!
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I've read the Bible. You might try doing so. It tells you what you must do to get to heaven.
Once you have read the Scriptures, then you will be in a position to discuss general revelation and special revelation, the interrelationship between faith and works, various interpretations as to when the rapture will occur, and various theologies of the end times including historic pre-mil, modern pre-mil, a-mil and post mil.
But given your status as a lapsed Catholic, I knew I needed to keep the answers simple.
Give yourself a treat - go to confession and then to Mass tomorrow. Then start reading through the New Testament.
And the Bible itself has undergone compilation changes many times. The Shepherd of Hermas used to be considered canonical. The Roman Catholics use a different compilation than do the Protestants. The Bible itself references several books it does not contain and for which no manuscripts have been found.
Early church fathers wrote of biblical books and apostolic letters that were being changed or even fabricated by Gnostics, Marcionites, and other heretical groups in order to support their teachings. The Gnostics used a book called The Secret Gospel of Mark to support the contention that Jesus was homosexual (you can see that argument is as old as Christianity itself). Clement of Alexandria addressed this charge by stating that he was aware of the book, that it was canonical, and that it did not say what the gnostics claimed it did. Yet we have no manuscript at all from the book save a small snippet Clement includes in his letter regarding the controversial passage.
While I'?m glad that the Rabbi pierced the PC template of the Today Show, there are PLENTY of marriages around that survive and flourish when the husband "is one thing", the wife "is another thing"?, and hence the child or children
are "a third thing". In those cases the entire family becomes "the third thing". The key to ALL of it is whether the religious backgrounds held by the parents are the be-all and end=all of personal and family life. OF COURSE it wouldn't work if the Christian husband and Jewish wife, (or vice-versa) are perfectly settled with compromising their faiths with one another, but choose to use the child as a battleground for exacerbating what they thought were comfortably compromised issues held by one another. The rabbi, of course, finds all these questions TERRIBLY IMPORTANT IN AND OF THEMSELVES, as I DO NOT. So maybe that'/s the real problem. OF course, the REAL problems are trying to combine ISLAM with just about anything else.
Compromise? Either Jesus is or is not the Messiah. Which is it? These aren't things one can just "compromise" on. One is true; the other is false.
Do you suppose it's better for your children to have no firm concept nor conviction of truth? This is supposed to be a better condition than no religion?
My statement that Billy boy was raised with no religion is based on a statement he made on his TV show.
He stated his parents weren't religious, though nominally Jewish/Catholic. And that to avoid confict, they just skipped the religious instruction.
Of course, this is Bill Maher. So maybe true, maybe not.
The rabbi really didn't say interfaith marriages don't work. He objected to the idea of raising a child to think he was both religions, which he rightly rejected, IMO, as being illogical.
If that's true, I think their fears are over the top unless they lived through the Holocaust or something.
However, we wouldn't want to "make use of" a crucifix or have it hanging in our hospital room, etc. However, it is perfectly acceptable to be in the presence of Christians wearing them. That fear you describe is crazy. Would we want Christians to run screaming from a door that had a mezuzah affixed?
That is refreshing. Kids appreciate consistancy and honesty in their home, and pretending to be Jewish and Christian is idiotic, not to mention confusing.
I see many people who never set foot in a temple or church yet are the best people on earth.
I see people who are religiously very devout and who live lives of decency, kindness, and love.
I see people who don't believe in any religion who are alcoholics, adulterers, wife beaters, pedophiles and murderers. And those are the celebrities!
You argument that SOME people who don't belong to a church are "better" (a subjective judgment at best) than SOME people who do belong to a church, is irrelevant.
It was refreshing and, at least for me, very unexpected. I had heard this rabbi in the past, and somehow had the impression that he was a very liberal, PC-type. So I fully expected him [and have a feeling that David Gregory did likewise] to come out with some PC-pabulum.
Wow, was I wrong!
Many liberal jews I know live their lives like conservative republicans.
My point was that going to church and claiming to be a religious person does not make it so. How you treat your fellow man is a far more important indicator of someone than their religious affiliation.
Last time I checked, "The Golden Rule" was still part of religious training. Instead of "The Golden Rule" seculars teach something called "diversity" in its place.
As a wise, but hated man on FR says, diversity is perversity.
The golden rule to me is the most common sensical, logical, and best rule to live by.
This is a canard that is simply false. The French Revolutionaries in a few year killed more Catholics, for being Catholic, than the Spanish Inquisition sentenced to death in three hundred years. The French Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars in a little more than 20 years caused the death of far more people than the wars of religion did in a hundred. A thousand years of warfare between Christians and Muslims resulted in far fewer deaths than the ideological war of 1939-1945.
The Church always taught 'baptism by desire'. St Thomas shows us that it is easy for man to reason that God exists and that creation was designed to worship Him. Those who, through no fault of their own, have not heard of God, may use their common sense and truly desire to worship the Creator and do so in their own way. God is all merciful and ultimately salvation is His to bestow.
"I think that many of the Jewish "leaders" fill the young ones with such distrust and such paranoia for these things that it actually develops into a nuerosis that can not be explaned but for any other reason. And when you question one about this, you get the most bizarre and illogical answers and responses."
Well, I think that you don't know what they heck you're talking about. :)
You can't have it every way...If you believe Jesus is the Messiah...celebrate Christmas...why be wishy washy, or do you just like to drink?
Let's see, two of my three serious relationships were with Jewish women, my best friend is a Jewish guy, my first law partner was Jewish, and some of my other closest friends are Jewish.
Many people wonder if I am Jewish sometimes. In any event, I have always seen a knee jerk reaction many times to the crucifix that can not be but from an early indoctrination. Second, I have been told that it starts very early in the hebrew school for these types of things.
I probably get along better with my Jewish friends than my paesans who have other cultural issues.
Is the paranoia real and based in fact? In some instances yes! Based on the history of other peoples, there is a valid fear and suspicion. However, I think Christians in this country have shown themselves to be the best friends to the Jewish people and the idea of a State of Israel given to its people from G-D (See I even got that right).
Italo-Americans have their own cultural issues which are not all that great. Call it stereotype whatever, they came to existence for a reason.
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