Posted on 12/27/2005 10:03:47 AM PST by ConservativeStatement
History teacher Bill Schechter and high school senior Ted Griswold believe their lawsuit is about a worthy and innocent educational principle: presenting different views of a tricky and disputed historical topic. The Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School teacher and his student believe that when Massachusetts high school students learn about the deaths of at least 1 million Armenians in Turkey during the early part of the 20th century, they should be taught that, while many historians call it a genocide, there are some who disagree.
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
...while many historians call it a genocide, there are some who disagree....
Yeah, murdering Turks.
Where ever the ROP goes and causes mass murder-genocide, there are those that disagree that it is mass murder-genocide, and that it is in keeping with the "scripture" of the ROP.
It's hard to believe there is anyone who'd quibble that a term generally used to describe the massacre of a million people is "too harsh", let alone file a lawsuit about it.
Also, I note the article saves the fact that the Turks killed the Armenians until the second paragraph. In the first paragraph it just mentions "the deaths of at least 1 million Armenians in Turkey". By war? Plague? Famine? What?
While at my dentist's office today, I got into a conversation with another patient and mentioned that to her AFTER she told me she was Armenian.
This suit should be put on hold until all American high school students know SOMETHING about AMERICAN history.
Huh? The plaintiff is claiming a right to free speech. The Department of Education wants to suppress it. The government wants to say the government does not have a right to free speech so therefore the government has the sole right to dictate dogma? I must be living in Animal Farm. The pigs just posted another notice in the All Gay Every Day Boston Globe. The entire article is about genocide and genocide denial. Not one word that Islamic Turks murdered 1,000,000 or so Christian Armenians. Is there a word for theocide?
I liked Turkey until I went to Cyprus and saw first hand Famagusta, Nicosia and the green line. All orthodox cathedrals in Famagusta, which was the show case of Cyprus were defaced and converted to mosques. All priceless religious relics were destroyed or sold to the highest bidder not to mention the 6000 Greek Cypriots which disappeared unaccounted for.
A vacation to Turkey. No thanks. Anatalya where most of the vacation areas were built by the Greeks who were overrun in 1917(Onassis was one) and ethnically cleansed.
Who has disproved the historians who "maintain that the deaths were a result of a civil war coupled with disease and famine, with casualties incurred by both sides."
Who can prove that only the Turks say that?
The modern republic of Turkey was founded in 1923. It eliminated the influence of radial Islam from government. Turkey is a secular constitutional republic.
Does anyone see the hypocrisy of blaming today's Turkey and accepting today's Germany. Let's never accept today's Germany - - it should always forever be the Germany of Hitler's National Socialists. Go figure. Germany admitted it? Yes, of course. Who can provide a serious historian with proof that the Holocaust did not happen, it was a civil war or something. IOW. there's abosolutely no dispute about the "round 'em up and kill 'em" Holocaust.
Omitting dissenting views on the Armenian genocide, he said, is something the Communist regime of the former Soviet Union might have done.
Might have done hell! It's something they did regularly: disinformation. The trashing of U.S. NATO allies and Turkey was one of the most valuable -- and expendable, is still being felt today.
Had the Soviets attacked Western Europe there is no doubt in my mind -- and in the minds of Turks I've talked with -- Turkey would have been sacrificed to save Western Europe. They were prepared to do that if the Soviets were able to defeat them on that front.
That employee of Duke University who compares this to round v. flat world and Holocaust v. no Holocaust is an idiot, IMO.
Still want Turkey fried?
Fine.
Then the Armenians have a little splainin' to do from about 15 years ago. What about the Azeris? Though no one is claiming genocide one of the attacks on modern Turkey is that Turks drove Armenians from their homes. Well? What about the Azeris being drive out of their homes?
Does calling mass murder anything other than genocide make it that much less offensive?
Famine, ethic strife and disease tend to be indiscriminate killers. Why did so many Armenians die compared to the death tolls for Turks?
No one wants to deal with that question; Certainly not the Turks.
According to Chomsky, it does.
As soon as we pulled out of Vietnam and the Khmer Rouge had its way, we all know what happened.
I believe that the Russians killed off about 700,000 Ottoman troops stopping an Ottoman campaign (1914 or 1915). There weren't that many of them left.
No question that far more Christians died than Ottoman troops or Ottoman Empire civilians. A quick search turned up no numbers that I could find.
I am attempting to find out why blame modern Turkey? Why is there the demand that Turkey admit to genocide? I have my reasons for wanting to know.
First I keep this in mind, Armenia was a "republic" in the USSR. Second, Turkey was a NATO member and staunch ally of the U.S. for decades throughout the Cold War. Third, Communists lie.
I've never discussed the Ottoman Empire with any Turk. It never occurred to me to do so because it's like asking a German, What was it like being a Nazis?
How would he know? I accepted that that was in the past.
I have no doubt that the Ottoman Empire was as evil as any Islamic state can be. I know that the Turks strictly enforce their secularism -- it being the duty of the Army to keep the government respectful of Turkey's constitution and republic.
(The EU demands an end to the Army's "interference" yet the EU fears radical Islam in Turkey. Go figure.)
I doubt that anyone disputes history that in early 1915. [the Ottoman] authorities decreed the demobilization and disarmament of the Ottoman Christians.
Russia had just declared war on the Ottoman Empire (ditto, France and United Kingdom) and I believe that the Armenians sided with Russia and were involved in the fighting.
Genocide has the connotation of helpless civilians being killed off. Even massacres -- separate from the context of battle especially civil war -- is just as evil as genocide.
I am most definitely not a historian or knowledgeable in the history of the W.W.I era.
I am wondering however why are these demands (admit genocide) being made upon modern Turkey when there are many independent historians who dispute the claim of genocide? No one disputes the horror of W.W.I madness. The Ottoman Empire was destroyed.
And what of the accusers? When even a cursory search turns up accusations about Armenian Nazis, Armenian aggression, Armenian terrorism, and even Armenian genocide (of others) it gives me more reason to wonder about the accusers.
http://www.karabakh.org/
Repeat: I am not an expert. Just looking for something as close to truth as possible.
"TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!!!"
(now there's a phrase that sounds awfully familiar for some reason...)
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