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To: Strategerist

I have both a BS and MS in Science.

My particular field is Computer Science.

I used to believe in classial evolution.

It is, however, a theory that one must take on "faith" rather than "factual supposition".

Take for example, a computer program. Let's say I let you start in a high level language (C or Fortran). This is equivalent to DNA at the gene level - that is, each C or Fortran statement does "work" and performs a function, rather than be a meaningless garble of characters - which is what level evolution must operate at.

How long do you suppose it would be before I could randomly generate even a simple useful program? One whose complexity is one billionth that of a living, reproducing, intelligent lifeform?

Why can't man, with all his 21st Century wisdom, create anything from scratch that can 1) reproduce and 2) feed itself and 3) be smart enough to survive?

So I can even let you DESIGN your lifeform - can you do it?

and it all happened, and coincidentally in just the way that the first life could 1) reproduce 2) eat 3) avoid death (intelligence).

Yeah....right.


21 posted on 12/28/2005 3:34:24 PM PST by BereanBrain
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To: BereanBrain

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3915d03b6636.htm#67


41 posted on 12/28/2005 3:52:17 PM PST by George from New England
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To: BereanBrain
How long do you suppose it would be before I could randomly generate even a simple useful program? One whose complexity is one billionth that of a living, reproducing, intelligent lifeform?

All it takes is a handful of SK combinators and a very simple machine to run them on to bootstrap an operating system.

Your field may be computer science, but you apparently did not take many graduate courses in algorithmic or computational information theory or you would see where your intuition has failed you.

44 posted on 12/28/2005 3:53:44 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: BereanBrain
"How long do you suppose it would be before I could randomly generate even a simple useful program? "

I've done it. So have many others. I used a technique called evilutionary programming, or genetic algorithms.

By providing an inital set of fundamental pieces of code the technique can alayze data and create working programs.

For instance if you create a data set that provides 2 columns of data; 1 column is the area of a randomly sized circle,and the other coulumn is the corresponding radius the evolutionary algorithms can infer a relationship between the two columns and create a program that calculates the area of circle given the radius.

BTW: We did not provide it the value of pi as part of it's "pieces" of code. It calculated that ratio all on tis own.

Wonderul stuff. I suggest you do some research on it.

BTW2: I am a hard-core bible-thumping born-again Christian. I believe in the Creator. I do not believe Darwin explains the Creation of life nor the forces which drive molecules to decide they want to procreate.

The evolutionary algorithms work, but ONLY if they are given appropriate pieces of "life" to begin with, and then given a forcing function which helps decide the value of different configurations of life. The bad ones are killed, the good ones are retained and mated for a next generation.

God invented evolution, after He created life itself. No system design would be very good if it did not have an ability to adapt.

BTW3: All life forms are closely related in many ways. Evolution supports survival of the fittests which means that those characteristics which support long life and population growth are retained.

So different species have many strong points in common, except man. Man's unique strengths are singular and not found in any other species! Why? No other species has developed a spiritual nature, or the intelligence of man.

Man is unique in precisely the way God made us. Man's unique strengths cannot be explained by evolution, otherwise many other species would be on par with mankind. Dolphins would build hospitals, gorillas would worship at temples, bears would engage in bee and fish farming etc etc....

Man is man because of the spirit that God has given him.

65 posted on 12/28/2005 4:06:19 PM PST by Mark Felton ("Your faith should not be in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.")
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To: BereanBrain

good way of putting it. The article was not an confirmation of intelligent design but a reasoned arguement that evolution taken on it's scientific merits is suspect. That's what scientists are supposed to do.


98 posted on 12/28/2005 4:27:18 PM PST by bubman
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To: BereanBrain
Unfortunately for your example, evolution is not a procedural language, but an OO language.

Given simple objects, it is quite possible (with very little programming) to combine them in novel and useful ways.

114 posted on 12/28/2005 4:52:23 PM PST by Philistone (Turning lead into gold...)
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To: BereanBrain
1) reproduce 2) eat 3) avoid death (intelligence).

(1) survive (2) reproduce ( eat is a subset of 1 )
You have introduced 2 parameters..
Your "program" is no longer random..

160 posted on 12/28/2005 5:39:53 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: BereanBrain
Take for example, a computer program...
How long do you suppose it would be before I could randomly generate even a simple useful program?

I understand that genetic algorithms have generated useful programs, and even invented novel electronic circuit designs.

224 posted on 12/28/2005 7:01:04 PM PST by GregoryFul
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To: BereanBrain
Why can't man, with all his 21st Century wisdom, create anything from scratch that can 1) reproduce and 2) feed itself and 3) be smart enough to survive?

And why is it that those who profess most to believe in evolution are the ones fighting so hard against one of its major principles?

These left-wing nuts expend billions of other people's resources to protect species that cannot survive on their own, and thus thwart the "Survival of the Fittest" axiom of Darwin's Religion. They accuse man of wiping out species, but who is guilty of wiping out the millions or billions of species made extinct before man even existed?

Hypocrites.

330 posted on 12/28/2005 9:14:06 PM PST by Auntie Dem (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Terrorist lovers gotta go!)
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To: BereanBrain
I have both a BS and MS in Science.

My particular field is Computer Science.

Same here. When viewed from a statistical probability standpoint, things come into greater focus, don't they?


443 posted on 12/29/2005 5:00:21 AM PST by rdb3 (This is a ch__ch. What's missing?)
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To: BereanBrain
How long do you suppose it would be before I could randomly generate even a simple useful program? One whose complexity is one billionth that of a living, reproducing, intelligent lifeform?

We know the answer, but soon an E believer will post some kind of supposed AI or mutating program that is said to do just that.

450 posted on 12/29/2005 5:35:22 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: BereanBrain

While I have never believed in evolution, my lack of faith increased because of my involvement in computer programming. I am working on an article that explains why. An early draft of it is at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~johnnyb/creation_change.html

You might find it interesting as well.


590 posted on 12/29/2005 8:36:24 AM PST by johnnyb_61820
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To: BereanBrain

"I used to believe in classial evolution.
It is, however, a theory that one must take on "faith" rather than "factual supposition"."


Amen, it does indeed take a lot of faith to believe in the lie of evolution as well as a general disregarding of so many recognized scientific facts that contradict the theory of evolution. And no science contradicts creationalism except the theory of evolution, a fable concocted by the athiest mind fearful of scientific fact that kicks their evolution religion to the curb. Evolutionsists remind me much of the Hindu India religion which creates an insurmountable caste system and causes starvation of those who worship their ancestors. An ironic fact considering that the elitist left prides itself on the pursuit of scientific fact unless it contradicts their ape to man religious faith. Athiests are all alike.

"There is none so blind as those who will not see."

Happy new year one and all!


1,156 posted on 12/31/2005 4:49:13 PM PST by kindred (Lord,thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:)
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To: BereanBrain

BTTT


1,447 posted on 01/09/2006 7:06:38 PM PST by 185JHP ( "The thing thou purposest shall come to pass: And over all thy ways the light shall shine.")
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