Japan Defense Video - (in lue of current events aka Chicom Defense etc)

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[Flavius]

http://cops.zive.net/c-board/file/jsdf2.wmv

[mithradates]

I know that the enemy of one's enemy is one's friend, but there are a few things that I find very destestable about the Japanese. And here are some of them.

The whole of East Asia absolutely detests the Japanese. There is not one country in that entire region who doesn't see the Japanese as a vile and dangerous enemy. Even Taiwan, where negativity to China as well as support for Japan is highest, something like 45% of the population has a favorable China, and only 12% has the same opinion for Japan. And keep in mind, this is probably the one asian nation(Japan's model colony) with by far the most favorable opinion of the Japanese. The Japanese are, by a wide margin, the most DISPISED nation and people in all of East Asia. China, otoh are looked on rather positively by most nations of East Asia. These reasons are mainly historical.

China at this point politically/economically dominates most of the nations of mainland East and Southeast Asia. The notable exceptions to this are South Korea and Vietnam, and both of them are rapidly falling under China's sphere of influence. The truth of the matter is that the current Chinese communist regime owe a great debt to the previous Chinese dynasties that came before it for it's current geo-political clout.

During the Ming and Qing dynasties(last 500 years), the Chinese Empire generally dominated the entire East Asian region and were noted for their tolerance and commericalism. Both Korea and Vietnam were both, just 140 years ago, part of the old Chinese Empire. Most of the pacific rim states were vassals of China even as recently as the 1830s.

One of the reasons why leaders of countries of the Pacific rim(Phillipines, Malaysia),as well as South Korea, tends to gravitate towards China, is because it was such a Powerful(and quite frankly just) hegemon in the past. The middle Kingdom didn't have slavery or social castes. It very rarely commits accepts of genocide(2 specific incidents in the last 500 years). China was a commerical and assimilationist society. Thus alien peoples could be easily and quickly SINICIZED, while client states were provided with trade and prosperity. Now obviously the Chinese government of today probably hasn't inherited the wisdom of their ancestors but nevertheless the other asian leaders are influenced by this history.


Now Japan was quite unlike China during the majority of the last 500 years. It was a feudal caste society from the late Sengoku period through the Edo period. Even today descendents of their Burakumin slave caste face routine discrimination. Feudal Japan's culture simply didn't have the flexibility necessary for the assimilation of alien peoples. Either you're japanese or your a foreigner with reduced or no rights. The Korean enimity of Japan mainly began the the 1600s due to Japan's invasion of the peninsula. Effectively, the Japanese tried to exterminate the Koreans. And when the Chinese pushed them out of Korea in their first invasion, they took several hundred thousand Koreans as slaves back to Japan where their descendents still reside as the Burakumin.

During that same period, Japanese pirates conducted countless slave raids in the then polynesian kingdoms and cheifdoms of the Pacific rim(Okinawa, Taiwan, Phillipines, Malaysia, Indonesia, kingdom of Java). Thus all the modern island nations of the pacific rim share a deep loathing for Japan.

Now zoom forward to the 19th and early 20th centuries and Japan's behavior becomes even more loathsome. Korea's hatred of Japan was worsened when Japan occupied that country from the 1890s to the end of WWII. They enslaved(not oppress, but put in chains and dragged off to do forced labor) something like 20% of Korean male population at it's peak. I once read a historical paper that basically said that between 1900 to 1940, around 70% of all Korean women were raped at least once in their lifetime.

Japan's deeds to Asian peoples in WWII was essentially a combination of genocide, rape, and slavery.

Thus, the current regime in China is somewhat like the degenerate heir of a once noble family. Though he is probably vile and ignoble, the combined good deeds of previous administrations give China a good reputation.

The modern Japanese regime is much like the son of a family of racist serial-killers. No matter what Japan tries to do to raise it's profile, it's image in the eyes of other asian countries will always be tarnished by it's deeds in the past.

[xhrist]

...a few things that I find very destestable about the Japanese...
The modern Japanese regime is much like the son of a family of racist serial-killers... No matter what Japan tries to do to raise it's profile...

your description of the Japanese people stikes me as quite racist...

What nation doesn't have examples of an abhorrent history, ecspecially during wartime?

[mithradates]

"What nation doesn't have examples of an abhorrent history, ecspecially during wartime?"

Every nation has had some abhorrent history during war. But the problem is that Japan simply has too much of it. They have too much blook on their hands. They are far too consistent with their brutality. Sure, if you commit atrocities in one or 2 wars against a few countries, it could be forgotten over time. But if you systematically commit these atrocities over dozens of countries in every war that you've fought in the last 400 years, that leaves a lasting impression with people about just what kind of country you are.

[cmsgop]

Very Cool!

[xhrist]

last 400 years?

The history of the USA, only some 230+ years worth, includes a near total genocide of the Native American race as well as founding principles allowing complete slavery of another race...
these examples not even during wartime...

Would you claim we, Americans, have blood on our hands? That we are far too consistent with our brutality

again, your comments strike me as racist..

[mithradates]

" again, your comments strike me as racist.."

I don't know what you're talking about at this point? Everyone in Asia is of the same mongoloid RACE. I'm merely pointing out lasting CULTURAL tendencies of Japan.


"The history of the USA... founding principles allowing complete slavery of another race"

Yet we fought a bloody war, and sacrificed hundreds of thousands of lives to get rid of such a system. A society that recognizes it's own error and then sheds rivers of it's own blood to correct those evils is, imho, absolved of their crimes. The Japanese did no such thing. They were forced at gunpoint(by the Americans) to give up their vile ways,but they still maintain the same attitudes and intentions to this day. If you remove that gun from their heads, they'll be back before long.


" Would you claim we, Americans, have blood on our hands? That we are far too consistent with our brutality"

We were a slaveholding society, I agree. But we were also one of the first societies to recognize the evils of slavery and abolish it OURSELVES.

Now, imagine a completely unrepentent society that's forced to abolish mass slavery at the threat of nuclear holocaust, that would be Japan. To this day, their history books portray WWII in the pacific as a heroic quest by Japan to "free" asia from Western Colonialism.

Imagine tens of thousands of Nazi war criminals given a slap on the wrist in SHAM trials and then put back into their original government positions. That's what happened with Japan. People who massacred thousands of innocent civilians were allowed back to resume their jobs in the government and the military. Why? Because the Americans of the 40s couldn't care less about the lives of 30 million Asians.

Imagine the Germans building a shrine that holds the ashes of Hitler and Goering and their ilk. And imagine having Shroeder pay homage to that shrine twice a year. The Japanese have done exactly that.

Imagine the Germans using their economic strength to muzzle weaker countries from not talking about WWII. Things like making diplomatic discussions conditional upon not discussing WWII atrocities are a standard Japanese diplomatic action with smaller southeast asian countries.


Now I know that we want Japan as an ally to contain China. But it's like unleashing a bubonic plague to combat the common flu. China could vile, but Japan is pure EVIL. China's faults are in it's GOVERNMENT, Japan's faults are in it's CULTURE. Changing a government is a heck of lot easier then altering a culture. You have to understand the basic facts here. Not a single country in East Asia trusts Japan. Every country there has a score to settle with Japan. When Bush held up Japan as America's "main partner in Asia", the immediate geopolitical consequences were the following:

1. South Korea moved to the Chinese camp

2. Indonesia permitted the Chinese to build naval bases on their territory.

3. The Phillipines enter discussions with China about leasing naval bases.

I find that most White Americans has this almost romantic image of Japan, possibly acquired from movies or something. But this "ally" of ours is fundementally not a good nation, and it's culture is fundementally NOT compatible with ours. Even China, being a communist oligarchy, still has a culture more similar to that of America than Japan. China would not be as successful as it has been if it didn't.

[xhrist]

But this "ally" of ours is fundementally not a good nation, and it's culture is fundementally NOT compatible with ours.

well, if you feel you can not be racist, you are certainly biased towards the Japanese to a point of believing they are and will always be an enemy of the World and America.

I can say that the Japanese people are proud, yes, but yet also very open and tolerant. I could not say that about communist China or North Korea.

How do you reason away the fact that there WAS another race occupying North America before American history and society replaced it? How do you absolve their crimes of genocide and not Japan's?

[mithradates]

Proud is not the right term, genocidal is much closer to it. If the japanese resolved to chang their cultural ways, then they can be welcomed as a responsible power. Until that happens, I much rather my home country stay clear of any kind of alliance from that sick nation.

They massacre and enslave without anysense of remorse, none. Of course YOU can overlook that since it hasn't happened to you or your family. But ask any korean, or chinese or filipino or malaysian or vietnamese, ANYONE from east asia, and they'll tell you what kind of people the japanese are.

[xhrist]

I will ask my beautiful,peace-loving, honorable Japanese wife about the Japanese people,thank you very much... let go of your hatred and vengence...it is not healthy for anyone.

Even the Native Americans have made 'relative' peace with the peoples that committed near genocide of them...

[mithradates]

If you don't mind, are you white?

[mithradates]

"I will ask my beautiful,peace-loving, honorable Japanese wife about the Japanese people,thank you very much"

Fine, I know of no people who didn't think of themselves as the good guys. You could find the most hard core Nazi in WWII, and he would think that his side was the right one. But unfortunately, the Japanese culture is a base one in the eyes of everyone else. It is possibly the most cruel and brutal culture in all of East Asia, ask any non-Japanese asian,and they'll tell you the same.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

I thought Japan was Constitutionally constarined, from re-arming militarily. A Constitution that we wrote.

[mithradates]

A constitution that we wrote, and one that THEY are now trying to revise.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

...and one that THEY are now trying to revise.

From the looks of that video...they've already revised the hell out of it.

[mithradates]

Some samples of the handiwork of our "partner" in Asia:

Massacre of British POWs in Hong Kong. After which they were composted and used as fertilizer.

Unborn Child bayonetted out of the belly of a pregnant Malaysian Woman. It was then smoked and tatooed.

American and Singaporean Prisoners of the Bataan march used as Live Targets for Rifle Practice by the Japanese, in Singapore.

The massacre of Manila, 100,000 people out of a city population of 200,000 were systematically executed immediately prior the the Japanese pullout of the Phillipines.

A cartload of Korean women to serve as sex slaves. They served an average of 35 Japanese soldiers per day until they died of disease/hunger. Out of a total WWII population of over 200,000 Korean sex slaves, less than 20% survived.

Rape of Nanking. 300,000 Old men, women and Children, raped and killed in 2 weeks.

And the men responsible for such atrocities:

* General Doihara Kenji, spy (later Air Force commander)

* Baron Hirota Koki, foreign minister

* General Itagaki Seishiro, war minister

* General Kimura Heitaro, commander, Burma Expeditionary Force

* General Matsui Iwane, commander, Shanghai Expeditionary Force

* General Muto Akira, commander, Philippines Expeditionary Force

* General Tojo Hideki, commander, Kwantung Army (later prime minister)

Their ashes are located in the Japanese war shrine, which the current Japanese prime minister worships twice a year.

[mithradates]

ping

[MARKUSPRIME]

We all know what they did in WW2 china and korea needs to move on this is 2006.My grandfather fought against the Japanese on Iwo Jima and Okinawa.He lost his arm and had numerous friends killed in the fighting and he told me he forgave the Japanese before his death in 1996. Its a differant country than then they are democratic, stop fearing the future. You should be worried about china and how they murder and mistreat their own people still to this day.

[mithradates]

If your family and your friends' families were SYSTEMATICALLY exterminated and enslaved by these people, then you would have different opinions. Fighting and beating the Japanese in war is one thing, but did your family(civilians, women, children) ever suffer at their hands as some of our families have?

Get off your high horse for a moment and thinka about it. Think about why Asia is flocking under China's wing. Everyone there hates Japan,and we want to make that vile nation into the regional leader.

[MARKUSPRIME]

You know I take offense to that my grandfather was a great man and he gave blood and guts fighting Japan. So yes my family has sacrificed as have numerous American families of ww2. I am to the point as is alot of the US military of not caring what South Korea or the malays do. They arent trustworthy anyhow in terms of stealing our military technology and giving it to the chinese.Oh I am also a white guy and one of my best friends in the whole world is an American Japanese who serves in the air force with me. The whole asian culture of saving "face" needs to grow up and get the bloody chip off your shoulder. China wont be attacking Japan anytime soon to settle old scores. If they did they would meet a brutal and devastating counter attack from the US and Japanese. We will do what we must and will not let a democracy be attacked with impunity. Take that for what it is friend because its US policy.

[mithradates]

"So yes my family has sacrificed as have numerous American families of ww2."

Nobody is questioning the great sacrifices that American soldiers have done in WWII. What I'm talking about is wholesale genocide and enslavement of CIVILIANS, not too many American families have experienced THAT in WWII, and believe me, it doesn't engender good feelings.

The U.S policy is to form a NATO-like alliance of nations in East Asia to contain China. The linch-pin of which is Japan. I couldn't possibly care less whether China is contained or not. What I do care greatly about is that this situation allows Japan to be the de-facto regional hegemon of East Asia, and it seems that most of Asia cares as well.

Sure, We can boost up the Japanese image in the media, and take them on Photo-ops with us, and present them to be a "responsible" leader of Asia. You can also clean off the mud and dress up a pig,but guess what, it's still swine. You can pretend that Japan is a leader and reponsible power, but don't be suprised if no one falls for it. For Japan to not be hated and loathed in Asia, it has to want to culturally reform itself, and that's something it hasn't and doesn't want to do.


We want a coalition against China, that's fine with me. But unlike Americans, most Asians have had the(educational) experience of being dominated by both China and Japan in the last few centuries. And you saw from the above post what Japanese domination is like. Thus, how can you call other asian countries like Korea disloyal if they are simply voting with their feet?