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1 posted on 01/04/2006 12:55:39 PM PST by A. Pole
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To: PatrickHenry
===> Placemarker <===
3 posted on 01/04/2006 1:03:37 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: A. Pole
Might private schools—not necessarily religious ones—offer a better alternative? Might home schooling?

The best solution to the problem stated in one sentence. Put your children in private schools and then you don't have to worry about the judicial war against traditional values.
4 posted on 01/04/2006 1:06:04 PM PST by JamesP81
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To: A. Pole
This accounts for the widespread desire that children be able to factor in some alternatives to the notion that “natural selection” has brought us, humanly speaking, where we are. Well, maybe it has. But what if it hasn’t? The science classroom can’t take cognizance of such a possibility? Under the Jones ruling, it can’t.

Equine feces. If schoolteachers really feel the need to fill the heads of children with anti-Darwinian nonsense, they can legally teach Lysenkoism.

5 posted on 01/04/2006 1:06:55 PM PST by Physicist
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To: A. Pole

don't understand why we can't have a day or two of discussion about the relative roles of science and religion."

Should churches start examining criticisms made of them made by scientists? I don't see what one has to do with the other, at least not as far as requiring them to be taught together.


6 posted on 01/04/2006 1:07:00 PM PST by The Worthless Miracle
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To: ninenot; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; FITZ; arete; ...
I happen to think that the evolution did and does take place. But I do not think that the present popular version of it (as defined by high school teachers and Hollywood movies) has to be protected by the courts from "unscientific" questioning.

Also I think that the religion is more important than science and that this is reflected by the US Constitution. Attempts to import the Soviet Separation of Church and State by the former pro-Communst fellow travelers even if successful, will not bring more good than it did in Soviet Union.

7 posted on 01/04/2006 1:07:26 PM PST by A. Pole (If the lettuce cutters were paid $10 more per hour, the lettuce heads would cost FIVE CENTS more!)
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To: A. Pole

The irrational fear of hearing the words "Creation" of "Intelligent Design", and that pure Evolution is not watertight, is science's PC anomaly. They want everything but the theory of evolution to be sidelined and call those who think otherwise "irrational" and "agenda-driven". However, all the folks who question evolution want is to have the other theories allowable. It seems so very left-wing somehow.


8 posted on 01/04/2006 1:09:18 PM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: A. Pole

First, it's interesting that this article seems to cede that ID posits a deity. Secondly, by no means did this judge, or any other judge, seek to remove a discussion of possible supernatural causes or intervention in natural history. What they are saying, based on testimony by scientists (who ARE competent to judge what's science and what isn't) is that such a discussion should not be presented as science, but as philosophy.


11 posted on 01/04/2006 1:12:42 PM PST by RonF
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To: A. Pole

Your argument has a few holes in it, ones you could comfortably put a stadium into and still have room.

Basically, you teach SCIENCE in a SCIENCE class. What the kids DESIRE is irrelevant. And claiming ID is science requires one or two basic rules of science to be ignored or dropped.

Or, in simpler terms, calling a hand a foot does NOT mean that Nike makes a sneaker that fits properly. . .


12 posted on 01/04/2006 1:14:54 PM PST by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border: I dare you to try and cross it. . .)
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To: A. Pole
...and here I was, thinking that kids could no longer exercise their 1-A rights in the science room by stripping down nekkid and running around going "Ooooga-booga!!!"

ID does not belong in a "science" room because it is not based in "science". Wouldn't want someone introducing French into a Calculus class either. However, I have no problem with ID being discussed in philosophy class or some other more appropriate class for non-scientific topics of discussion.

Beliefs are not science.

15 posted on 01/04/2006 1:17:22 PM PST by ElectricStrawberry (27th Infantry Regiment...cut in half during the Clinton years....Nec Aspera Terrent!!!)
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To: A. Pole
A 2004 Gallup Poll found that just 13 percent of Americans believe in evolution unaided by God.

Yeah. And they have lots of people who watch the "haunted houses" shows on the travel channel too.

16 posted on 01/04/2006 1:20:29 PM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: A. Pole

When I read the title, I wasn't sure if it was Scientologists, Moonies, or Flat-Earth theorists who were complaining that their views weren't being taught in science classrooms. Once I started reading the article, I found out that it's much worse. :)


21 posted on 01/04/2006 1:29:45 PM PST by NJ_gent (Modernman should not have been banned.)
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To: A. Pole

Whenever the subject of ID vs Darwinism comes up its always a laugher for me to see how sensitive and defensive Darwinists are over the precious theory. You would think it was religion to them......

And sometimes the Darwinists are down right mean...ouch...

You debate them at your own peril...the insults and sarcasm are thick enough to cut with a knife...still its fun anyway..:)


22 posted on 01/04/2006 1:31:37 PM PST by fizziwig
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To: A. Pole

ID and Creationism is the depths of ignorance and if it becomes widespread enough, it will mark the begining of the end of America as this land slips into the 3rd world.


26 posted on 01/04/2006 1:38:38 PM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert Heinlein)
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To: A. Pole
If all we're talking about here is "free speech", then it makes sense for that to apply equally. As such, if some people want "intelligent design" taught in science classrooms, then I want physicists, chemists, and biologists to express their views in religion and CCD classrooms across the country as well. That way, every time little Johnny hears about Jesus walking on water, he can have equal time listening to a physicist explain why such a thing is impossible. If ID is forced into science classrooms by law, then it makes sense for the reverse to apply as well.

Personally, I'd much rather see religious beliefs kept out of the science classroom, and science kept out of the religious classroom. There is no need for conflict, except when some decide to create conflict.
28 posted on 01/04/2006 1:43:20 PM PST by NJ_gent (Modernman should not have been banned.)
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To: A. Pole

The problem with ID is that it posits something (super-natural intelligence that guides evolution) that is not scientifically testable. That very fact alone means that it is not a valid scientific theory. Therefore, it is not valid to teach ID in the science classrooms of public schools.

Simple logic is all that is required to reach this conclusion, but unfortunately "activist judges" are required to stop those who would turn science into public-opinion polls.

Does the Theory of Evolution have problems? Of course it does. So do our theories dealing with particle physics, for example, but you don't hear activists trying to push non-scientific alternatives. But the so-called "Science Establishment" can and does modify those theories as better explanations come about. ID is not one of those better explanations.

Reading the court transcripts is an excercise of perseverance, but I was struck by how comically Michael Behe (a leading proponent for ID) evaded stating the mechanism behind ID after having been caught to have said, "Intelligent design theory focuses exclusively on the proposed mechanism of how complex biological structures arose."

(www2.ncseweb.org/kvd/trans/2005_1018_day11_pm.pdf page 63ff)


31 posted on 01/04/2006 1:47:24 PM PST by Celebur
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To: A. Pole

I'm a Christian, but I was heartily in favor of taking prayer and Bible study out of public school. Most kids made a mockery out of these things. Practice religion in your home, at your place of worship, and how you relate to other people.


36 posted on 01/04/2006 2:02:04 PM PST by GingisK
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To: A. Pole
A 2004 Gallup Poll found that just 13 percent of Americans believe in evolution unaided by God.
Now there's a way to do science: poll the general public.

By that measure, we should be teaching flying saucers in modern history class.

39 posted on 01/04/2006 2:07:09 PM PST by samtheman
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To: A. Pole

bump


46 posted on 01/04/2006 2:18:22 PM PST by VOA
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To: A. Pole; odoso; animoveritas; Laissez-faire capitalist; bellevuesbest; Unam Sanctam; EdReform; ...

Moral Absolutes Ping.

Just a little evofundie/non-evofundie discussion to wake you up. The usual is starting to happen on the thread. I pay the evofundies no mind since their day is drawing to a close.

But it is awfully telling that not a hint of anything other than the party line is ever allowed to even sit at the table, to mix metaphors. It's as bad as the "gay" agenda - can't even hint that maybe, just maybe, there's a little flaw in the assumptions.

No Doubting Allowed! Or we'll be put on the rack!

Freepmail me if you want on/off this pinglist.


61 posted on 01/04/2006 3:12:04 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: A. Pole

YEC INTREP


76 posted on 01/04/2006 7:38:56 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America)
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