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CA: The Minimum Wage Calamity
CaliforniaRepublic.org ^
| 1/5/06
| Ray Haynes
Posted on 01/05/2006 9:06:49 AM PST by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge
Minimum wage = Full employment for Illegals
To: AppyPappy
I can't believe people settle for that kind of job.
Have you read the book, "Nickeled and Dimed" before? A very good experiment by a woman who decided to try and find good jobs with the standard, "I've been married and raising kids and now I have to re-enter the workforce with no experiences." She was actually a writer of many years. She had good health, and starter money. And she found it can be done. If you work yourself to death, essentially. It was miserable, it was horrible, she couldn't find a job that paid enough for even mediocre housing...
42
posted on
01/05/2006 10:49:20 AM PST
by
hybrid
To: CondorFlight
All those 'hidden' costs for employees is true, plus workman's comp. Which is a killer in CA.
To: NormsRevenge
Everyone here seems to be missing a key issue. Many (if not all) unions use the minimum wage as a bargaining tool. Increase the minimum wage, the unions will want higher wages too. And we have a lot of public unions going into contract negotiations soon..........
44
posted on
01/05/2006 10:58:24 AM PST
by
Godzilla
(Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids)
To: hybrid
How, precisely, is one person doing something one time a "good experiment"? Her book is on par with the anti-capitalist propaganda pushed by Morgan Spurlock (who did a similar "experiment" on his TV show, rigged to fail).
All a higher (or any) minimum wage law does is encourgage disobedience to the law and lower rates of lawful employment. There are plenty of tasks that need doing that simply aren't worth x dollars per hour to do, whatever x happens to be. The real minimum wage is and always will be zero, and in every study of the policy (as mentioned in the article), minimum wage laws only serve to increase the number of those earning zero.
To: hybrid
(1) The employer is paying less-than-market rates, and will soon find that his best employees are leaving for greener pastures. Unfortunately, the 'greener pastures' do not exist; it is very difficult to move to another city, and wages tend to be similar no matter where you move. This tells me that your employer is paying market rates for the services you provide.
It is simply not possible to just uproot if your employer tells you he can't pay you more than X.
Why not? In the last two centuries, a lot of people uprooted themselves for an uncertain future in this country. A lot of people still do, legally and illegally.
(2) The work done by the employees is not highly valued by the market, and the employer cannot afford to pay higher-than-market wages. I have many skills that are in high demand, most importantly a brain.
"Demand" and "value" can be two different beasts. "Demand" may exist when there is high turnover in a company. If my burger flippers quit every 3 months, I will have a lot of "demand" for new employees. However, I will not pay these employees more than what I think they're worth.
I've met very very few 'lazy' poor people. Most of them work their butts off and can't ever get ahead. Our courier works three jobs, sleeps a couple hours a night, just to support his ex-wife and their two kids. I know, that's just one guy, right...
I know people like that, too. But then again, I doubt either one of us hang out in the 'lazy poor' crowd. Wasn't there a recent post on FR about poor people and their big-screen TV's?
How many people on here would actually hire a poor person to do... anything? Or would you go out and hire the GQ-looking guy with the schnazzy care and the professionally-edited resume?
I don't think the Mexican day laborers would make the cover of GQ. Nor would migrant farm workers. Yet they still come here and work.
Quite frankly, the government sticks its nose in because nobody else will.
The government sticks its nose in because people in government profit, professionally, from being busybodies, and the People let them do it.
46
posted on
01/05/2006 12:32:59 PM PST
by
Fudd
To: Fudd
Why does government need to stick its nose in the equation?Because most people are too stupid to come in out of the rain, let alone develop the skills necessary to earn a living or to defend themselves from evil, greedy capitalist employers who, naturally, will exploit the workers and force them into abject poverty in order to line their own pockets.
Of course the Government must set wages, prices too....Its for the children.
47
posted on
01/05/2006 12:36:36 PM PST
by
Chuckster
(Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset)
To: hybrid
If there were no minimum wage and no welfare, you would have a whole lot of starving people, unfortunately. I'm not sure that is the trade-off people want. Projectile horse vomit.
To: FreeKeys
I still stand by my opinion. You are welcome to yours. I, however, won't make assumptions about what you do or do not know.
I am very blessed and fortunate to have been born in a nice community, nice schools, etc.....I never forget that.
49
posted on
01/05/2006 12:47:56 PM PST
by
yellowdoghunter
(I sometimes only vote for Republicans because they are not Democrats. by Thomas Sowell)
To: hybrid
In other words, if you are poor it is your own damn fault? You bet it is!
To: yellowdoghunter
I just can't believe that McDonald's or Wal-Mart, etc... cannot afford to pay their workers more So what if they could? Bill Gates could "afford" to give $10 to every American. Is he morally required to do so?
51
posted on
01/05/2006 12:52:53 PM PST
by
ThinkDifferent
(I am a leaf on the wind)
To: ThinkDifferent
We will just have to agree to disagree.
52
posted on
01/05/2006 12:59:15 PM PST
by
yellowdoghunter
(I sometimes only vote for Republicans because they are not Democrats. by Thomas Sowell)
To: hybrid
How many people on here would actually hire a poor person to do... anything? Or would you go out and hire the GQ-looking guy with the schnazzy care and the professionally-edited resume? That would depend on what each is charging. Which means that the poor guy gets screwed by minimum wage laws since they limit his ability to compete by offering a lower price.
53
posted on
01/05/2006 1:01:58 PM PST
by
ThinkDifferent
(I am a leaf on the wind)
To: hybrid
she couldn't find a job that paid enough for even mediocre housingMediocre housing is 90% better than places I have lived. How about a DORM? It's like a prison cell without a toilet.
Cry me a river.
54
posted on
01/05/2006 1:05:59 PM PST
by
AppyPappy
(If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
To: yellowdoghunter
Thank you for your courteous reply.
55
posted on
01/05/2006 1:06:51 PM PST
by
FreeKeys
("Politicians ... accuse you of 'greed' ... for wanting to keep your own money."-- Joseph Sobran)
To: yellowdoghunter
We will just have to agree to disagree. Disagree on what? What's the difference in your claim that McDonalds should be paying its workers $X more than market wages because they can afford it, and the claim that Bill Gates should pay me $X because he can afford it?
56
posted on
01/05/2006 1:06:56 PM PST
by
ThinkDifferent
(I am a leaf on the wind)
To: AppyPappy
Mediocre housing is 90% better than places I have lived. How about a DORM? It's like a prison cell without a toilet.My son rents a room in a house. He has bathroom privileges and use of the kitchen. $500/month. A full up single bedroom apartment would cost him $1200 in the same area. It's good enough to keep him fed, clothed and running up his student loans toward a June 2006 graduation date. He's gone from flipping burgers to selling real estate to being a real estate broker in 2 years. He'll have a business degree in June. That comes from working his ass off. He chose not to be a minimum wage burger flipper. Remaining poor is a choice in this country.
57
posted on
01/05/2006 1:55:43 PM PST
by
Myrddin
To: Fudd
Why not? In the last two centuries, a lot of people uprooted themselves for an uncertain future in this country. A lot of people still do, legally and illegally.
True enough; if you are willing to live in the fields or in your car; if you are willing to live with 10 other people; if you are capable of saving up deposits, finding an apartment that accepts your credit (if you have any) and hoping that the area you chose has a good job market, which, if you are poor, is hard to find out ahead of time. Uncertain is puting it mildly.
"Demand" and "value" can be two different beasts. "Demand" may exist when there is high turnover in a company. If my burger flippers quit every 3 months, I will have a lot of "demand" for new employees. However, I will not pay these employees more than what I think they're worth.
I'm not talking about flipping burgers. I am essentially an executive assistant. I make around 15/hr BEFORE anything gets taken out. I can work any office machine and learn programs quickly. I cannot find a job that will pay me more than what I am currently earning; most offer me far, far less. These are positions I see open long-term, over and over again. They refuse to raise their wages, yet cannot understand why people hate the job. Yet it will be filled, for six or eight months, over and over again. This is happening in jobs all over SoCal. This is not even taking into account the fact that I refuse to do any advertising work anymore. I have a degree. I was a Marketing Coordinator. And I refuse to do crap work for overpaid idiot executives (and they were) when they consistantly claimed they couldn't raise our wages, yet would waste money on the most outrageous 'projects' for the co. Which often involved half the execs flying to damn shows, staying at the nicest hotels, and us covering their asses time and again.
The government sticks its nose in because people in government profit, professionally, from being busybodies, and the People let them do it.
That sounds like a nice line, however, except for the higher echelons (those actually running the boards and such), I don't see a whole lot of government employees 'profiting' from poor people.
58
posted on
01/05/2006 2:11:35 PM PST
by
hybrid
To: parsifal
You cannot change the value of someone's labor by government fiat...by the stroke of the Govern-ator's pen.
Minimum wage laws are nothing more than forced redistribution of the wealth, otherwise known as, SOCIALISM.
59
posted on
01/05/2006 2:16:10 PM PST
by
Conservative Goddess
(Politiae legibus, non leges politiis, adaptandae)
To: Red Badger; SamAdams76
60
posted on
01/05/2006 2:16:48 PM PST
by
Conservative Goddess
(Politiae legibus, non leges politiis, adaptandae)
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