Israel rules Pollard not prisoner of Zion

Science Daily ^ | January 16, 2006

[Howlin]

JERUSALEM, Jan. 16 (UPI) -- Israel's high court ruled Monday against convicted spy Jonathan Pollard's request to be deemed a prisoner of Zion and repatriated from the United States.

Pollard, a civilian U.S. Naval intelligence analyst pleaded guilty to espionage on June 4, 1986, and received a life sentence and a recommendation that he never be paroled.

He was granted Israeli citizenship in 1996 after Israel recognized his status as a spy and pledged to fund his legal expenses, the Jerusalem Post reported.

However, in court the government argued that Pollard cannot be granted the status because Zionist organizations and activities are not banned under U.S. law.

Pollard's wife, Esther, told Army Radio she found it "unbelievable" that Israel would work to release killers in other countries but let Pollard stay in prison.

[adam_az]

Oh sheesh. You're ignorant.

"He spied because he was:

(1) Paid"

Actually - he spied BEFORE he was paid. He was a "walk in."

"(2) considered himself an Israeli & not an American."

Sheer speculation.

"Which is OK, except you're *not* supposed to keep your change of citizenship a secret and steal US governments secrets."

His change of citizenship was NOT secret, it happened AFTER he was arrested.

You're holding yourself up to be authoritative on this subject? You don't even know the most basic facts.

[familyop]

" You really have no clue what you are talking about. . .Israel has this intelligence service called like MOSSAD or something,...". . .Pollard gave the Israelis piles and piles of the nation's most valuable and most classified information. . .

...and oodles and oodles? No, but Hanssen (Opus Dei cult boy) and Ames did. So what? No one here has said that Pollard didn't violate US law and shouldn't be punished. But those of you who've written your hatred against an ally and support for terrorist regimes in this thread seem to be obsessed with Pollard and what few other conspiracy tales haven't received enough laughter, yet.

[dennisw]

Bump to your comments about pagan idolatrous Islam. Their new idol is the atomic bomb

[adam_az]

"http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/576453/posts

Is FR crdible enough for you? "

Dude - That's not FR - That's a reposted article by Seymour Hersh who has 0 credibility from the New Yorker which is a yellow journalism rag! Sorry, no cred.

The link from asianresearch.org is some crap put out by "American Foreign Policy Council" and reprinted from this website. I don't know who AFPC is, and they certainly didn't cite any sources in their little press release.

The PDF didn't open for me. But I'm sure it's similar poop.

That's the best you can do? Pathetic.

[familyop]

"Bump to your comments about pagan idolatrous Islam. Their new idol is the atomic bomb"

Thanks. News about some of the idolatrous junk (both of Constantine's celebrations, no less) at the Rainbow Covenant site got me going. They, along with their kooky friends who put a pseudo-kabbalistic "curse" (from mistranslation/misunderstanding) on PM Sharon and their renegade, unguided Noachide masters of the universe on the US east coast (full of neo-Nazi conspiracy stories)... It looks like they're trying to stop newbie student strangers like myself from learning by giving us all (and our generous teachers Chassidim) a bad rep.

[rcocean]

1) Paid means Paid. He may have done some spying at first for free, but then he was PAID to spy. What is your point? He was paid to spy.

2) Why was he a "walk-on"? Because he wanted spy for Israel. Because he considered his first allegiance to Israel.

3) "Allies spy on allies". Really? Tell that to the Japanese and the Canadians. I bet there isn't a single Japanese or Canadian spy in the USA trying steal DoD or NSA secrets.

4) Spy on the USA? Fine, don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Poor Polly Pollard, isn't life a bitch. He no doubt regrets his love for Israel. Maybe he should have expressed it by moving to Israel, instead of stealing US secrets.

[familyop]

"3) 'Allies spy on allies'. Really? Tell that to the Japanese and the Canadians. I bet there isn't a single Japanese or Canadian spy in the USA trying steal DoD or NSA secrets."

...or Mexicans or Tibetans, even.

[adam_az]

Um.

You said,

"He spied because he was:

(1) Paid"

I pointed out that he spied BEFORE he was paid, not as a result of being paid. Then you tried to move the bar. You lose.

You're trying to hold yourself up as an expert, but apparently that just means your opinion is just worth more than the facts... which you have a tenuous hold of. Facts clearly haven't had any role in shaping your opinion.

"3) "Allies spy on allies". Really? Tell that to the Japanese and the Canadians. I bet there isn't a single Japanese or Canadian spy in the USA trying steal DoD or NSA secrets."

You're naive.

"4) Spy on the USA? Fine, don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Poor Polly Pollard, isn't life a bitch. He no doubt regrets his love for Israel. Maybe he should have expressed it by moving to Israel, instead of stealing US secrets."

How can you call it a system of justice if it isn't meted out evenly?

[fallujah-nuker]

Thanks for the ping, I read through the whole thread, man this one is brutal! Very interesting though. Time is not on Israel's side, just consider that there are about 14 million Jew's in the world, that means in the sixty years since the end of WW2 they have just recovered to the numbers they had before the war. It has taken sixty years to make up for six million killed by Nazi Germany. From a 1943 atlas, the population of Egypt was 15.9 million, Syria was 2.3 million (BTW that included Lebanon at the time) while Iran was an even 15 million.

Now Egypt is 68.3 million, Syria (now minus Lebanon) is 16.3 million and Iran is 65.6 million. Each nation has at least doubled in population, and then doubled again in the intervening six decades while the world Jewish population is no higher. Israel faces an Islamic demographic bomb that may be more deadly than nuclear weapons.

It seems self evident that the Israel and the Arab's cannot live together, one side must wipe out the other.

I've seen posts commenting on how difficult it would be for Israel to disarm Iran of her atomic program. If Iran plus nukes cannot be tolerated by Israel, and she cannot destroy the nukes her only logical option would be to destroy Iran. Would not break my heart, those SOB's would be getting a some well deserved payback for 1979.

You normally do not shoot a weapon from someones hand, you shoot the person holding the weapon. When precision bombing proved impossible in Japan we resorted to firebombing the cities which worked. The worst war crime is not fighting to win, we were not guilty of that in WW2.

All of my adult life the Mideast has occupied the headlines and I am growing weary of it. Instead of US policy being to push for Arab-Israeli peace how about pushing for a final decision, I have no doubt what the outcome would be. Islam is a menace to western civilization, if some Israeli (and Indian) nukes can parry the threat then why not? I'm sure all the whining Sally Struthers bleeding heart types would be aghast at such a notion but I could give a rats hind end.

[familyop]

Take your pick.

Western Europe, including more of its media and "society" chatterers can get with us to take out a threat to it, as well. It can give us more than one division, including combat soldiers, from each of its countries. Abandon thoughts of Lawrence of Arabia and of "empire" lost.

Or we'll eventually destroy all hostile countries in the Middle East with help from our better, newer allies, tell critics on the sidelines to shut-up, and cut-off all military-related contracts and agreements with western Europe. Then western Europe can get busy at trying to defend itself instead of defaming the USA and Israel.

Those are the permissable choices. We don't have to buy from or trust any who refuse to carry their part of the load, and we do know what is said about us elsewhere (including within circles like the RSA).

As for radical Islamism, well, it can accept the existance of the biblical and properly mandated Jewish homeland and of other religions, or it can yield as many bodies as necessary to lose all of its desire to continue fighting.

When we and/or our allies are attacked by enemies who act like animals (imagine nearly a whole ethnic group--even children--taught to cheer for the slaughter of other children by homicide bombers), we in the USA are warlike and mean until we defeat the threat. We'll do whatever it takes.

[Radix]

I'm sorry that I ever posted on this thread, only because I do not (despite my reputation) care to argue with like minded people.

I sense that great errors were made during the 1967 war, and I'm sure that most thinking Israelis and Americans aware of the matter would likely agree.

[JeffersonRepublic.com]

"I sense that great errors were made during the 1967 war, and I'm sure that most thinking Israelis and Americans aware of the matter would likely agree."

Mistake or not, it happened along time ago. Time heals all wounds.

[Johnnyboy2000]

You act is getting old. First of all you don't know me or what I have done in my life or what I do now, so I won't even dignify your personal attack with a response. You sound tough when you are talking about what people you don't know are going to do to other people you don't know, but you would probably pee your pants if you ever had a gun pointed at you, or ever faced any real confrontation outside the fantasy land conflicts you make up in your head, in which Israel is some great Super Power that could conquer the entire planet with the drop of a hat.

If Israel is so strong and Europe so weak, why did they need France to prop them up for the first 20 years of their history? Why did they need France to build their nuclear reactors? Isn't that kind of pathetic to depend on France to defend your country? It is also safe to say that the French military is superior to that of Israel, so I wouldn't bash them as soft when they would hand Israel their ass on a silver platter in a military dispute. Americans can call France soft because we bailed them out of two wars. You don't sound very American to me because you defend Israel for spying on us, and selling our secrets to our enemies, and attacking the Liberty, and for getting our people rounded up and murdered in the Soviet Bloc. You call me anti-American for criticizing Isarel when you take Israel's side against America. It is easy to see where your loyalties lie, and it isn't with AMerica. You are all about what is best for Israel, and your only concern about America is that it continues to prop Israel up regardless of the consequences.

Every time some one brings up Israel wronging America you blame the American leadership, and the American intelligence community. You blamed the Liberty for getting attacked in international waters. You blamed the US for Pollard spying on us because we weren't giving Israel enough of our classified info. Not that they hadn't already been selling it to our enemies behind our back in the first place.

"India eyeballing Pakistan as a cat would watch a mouse."

Yeah a mouse with a nuclear arsenal that would kill 100s of millions of Indians. You are sickeningly uninformed. Pakistan has a very real nuclear capability, and Israel ABM syastem could not stop a large scale nuclear attck that would come in an exchange with Pakistan. The last thing Israel wants to do is pick a fight with Pakistan. Especially with their new air force that the US gave them. On a side not, Israel's security is the last thing India is concerned about.

You make many references to studying history. Maybe you should study what happens to isolated nations with small populations who are surrounded by enemies with huge booming populations.

From a realistic point of view it is a matter of time before the expanding Arab world swallows the state of Israel. You can get angry and call me names but it is not my doing. It is just an inevitablity. That is the way nations come and go.


The other poster made this point by describing the demographic bomb. the only way solve that would be for Israel to commit genocide. Committing genocide to protect the purity of a race. Where have I heard that before. Although they are your enemies, you have more in common with neo-Nazis and Islamists than I do. I don't speak about entire groups of people in blanket terms and state that they have less of a right to exist than I do.

You said:

"Antagonistic, pagan Islamist nations have no effective nuclear offense and little more than millions of bodies for fertilizer to offer in any expanded conflict."

You remind me of someone, but I cannot think of who it is. Oh yeah. It's Hitler. Look up pagan in the dictionary while your at it. There has never been a pagan muslim in the history of the world. It is an oxymoron you dunce.

[adam_az]

"From a realistic point of view it is a matter of time before the expanding Arab world swallows the state of Israel. "

You just wish it would happen a little faster, huh?

[familyop]

"It is also safe to say that the French military is superior to that of Israel, so I wouldn't bash them as soft when they would hand Israel their ass on a silver platter in a military dispute."

France is a pit of anti-American, dhimmi cowards. Are all of the French pedestrians, yet, BTW?

"Yeah a mouse with a nuclear arsenal that would kill 100s of millions of Indians. You are sickeningly uninformed. Pakistan has a very real nuclear capability, and Israel ABM syastem could not stop a large scale nuclear attck that would come in an exchange with Pakistan."

You're dreaming for Pakistan and again showing your sentiment against our allies. Islam keeps Pakistan so filthy, that the country can't properly maintian expensive military equipment. Musharraf's good little helper, though I can't say as much for most of his citizens.

"Maybe you should study what happens to isolated nations with small populations who are surrounded by enemies with huge booming populations.
From a realistic point of view it is a matter of time before the expanding Arab world swallows the state of Israel."

If the radical elements of those nations try to move on Israel, the USA or any of the other countries they hate, what will we do with all of the bodies afterward? So many square miles of radical Islamist corpses might present a minor health hazard.

"The other poster made this point by describing the demographic bomb. the only way solve that would be for Israel to commit genocide. Committing genocide to protect the purity of a race."

Nazis and Islamists do tend to project their desires on others. That's why in the end, they get the same kind of fate that they tried to perpetuate against others. Radical Islam can make as many babies as it desires. But with Islamist culture, their progeny will always be somewhat retarded in comparison to the nations they want to "wipe off the map" or "drive into the sea."

"You remind me of someone, but I cannot think of who it is. Oh yeah. It's Hitler. Look up pagan in the dictionary while your at it. There has never been a pagan muslim in the history of the world."

That's a common Islamist projection against the USA and Israel. The culture of moon-god worship was started during the 7th Century by an hallucinating sodomite.

[familyop]

The "Arab world" in as far as radical Islam is concerned, will be overrun, occupied and reeducated in the near future. It's already beginning to lay down under pressure. Every day, more of our good, US-trained Islamist killers are Arabs themselves.

[familyop]

Correction for clarification:

Every day, more of our good, US-trained killers of Islamists are Arabs themselves.

[Johnnyboy2000]

"The "Arab world" in as far as radical Islam is concerned, will be overrun, occupied and reeducated in the near future. It's already beginning to lay down under pressure. Every day, more of our good, US-trained Islamist killers are Arabs themselves."

I knew what you meant and agree 100%. Radical Islam is an insidious disease on humanity. I would love to see a world where Israel and the Arabs could live side by side in peace. The problem is I have had my Jewish friends (I have a few believe it or not) and my Arab friends (I have a few believe it or not, although most are Arab Christian) tell me that it will never happen, and these are people who would like to see it happen.

I would be lying if I said I didn't harbor some hostility toward Israel. It is obvious in my posts. I have hostility toward France and Germany (the home of many of my ancestors way back before Germany was even really a country)also. All in all I like these countries though.

But I despise Islamic Fundamentalism. Despise it. But I realize a majority of Muslims in the middle east think these people are nuts also. They really do. I've been to the region and firmly believe this. This is not to suggest that there are not millions of Islamists who wield great power in the region. And millions more who sympathize with them. I still feel the world can solve this problem without annihilating Islam. We just need to tweak it a little bit; ie kill or silence the Islamist leaders who perpetuate hateful, fanatical beliefs.

As for Israel, the state's survival will always be a major struggle because of the demographics of the region. People are misreading my statements if they think I am rooting for Islamists to destroy Israel. This is just how a see the situation. I do not share your optimism that Israel will survive in the long run. I am hopeful Jews will remain there and have a stake in the government, but believe that the "Jewish State" will eventually be replaced by either a multi-ethnic republic where Jews have some autonomy but not a nation of their own(this is the more optimistic scenario), or it will be replaced by an Muslim Arab dominated nation (this is the less optimistic scenario). I am sure neither of these options are acceptable by your standards, but I believe one of these two scenarios will occur in the next 50 years.

[familyop]

"I would be lying if I said I didn't harbor some hostility toward Israel. It is obvious in my posts. . .I am hopeful Jews will remain there and have a stake in the government, but believe that the "Jewish State" will eventually be replaced by either a multi-ethnic republic where Jews have some autonomy but not a nation of their own(this is the more optimistic scenario), or it will be replaced by an Muslim Arab dominated nation (this is the less optimistic scenario)."

You will eventually give up both of your kinds of "optimistic scenario," because we (several nations) are not going to let that happen.

An ethnic group that is indoctrinated from birth with hatred against Jews will continue to conduct itself as something like a community of roaches. Members of that community are being given a roach motels to live in for the time being.

We (several nations) are going clean up other national sources of the terrorist problem in Israel (Iran, for one). Then we'll go through with something similar to a denazification plan for the terrorist community there (i.e., the "Palestinians"). That will involve much more than a "tweak" of the culture.

Keep your eyes on Iran, and know that it won't be the first source of terrorists (and their beliefs) to fall. After we subdue the various national sources of the terrorism, denazification will begin with new texts and other media for all of the little terrorist "Palestinian" kids and parents in Israel.