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Unite For Child Support (MEGA BARF ALERT!!)
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 27 January 2006 | Editorial

Posted on 01/28/2006 8:21:45 AM PST by buccaneer81

Unite for child support Time spent with kids doesn't cut cost of rearing them, so state shouldn't use it as reason to slash payments

Published on: 01/27/06

The women in the state Senate — all seven of them — united this week across party lines and stood up for mothers and kids. Their 35 peers in the House must do the same if Georgia is to limit the damage to single mothers and their children caused by a bill changing how child-support payments are calculated in Georgia.

Under the bill, noncustodial parents can reduce the amount of child support they pay by spending a certain amount of time with their children. The proposal before the Senate set the threshold for the parenting time credit at 91 days a year — the equivalent of 13 weeks. But by joining together, female senators were able to raise that annual threshold to 121 days.

It was a small but significant victory in a father-driven rewrite of state child support laws that will lower basic awards for middle- and upper-income families. In the House, those trying to preserve the higher threshold will face a nimble and stubborn adversary in the bill's prime mover, state Rep. Earl Ehrhart (R-Powder Springs), who is unlikely to budge without political pressure.

However, this is an election year, and a collective stand by female House members — Republican and Democratic alike — could apply that necessary pressure. Gov. Sonny Perdue cannot afford to hand either of his possible Democratic opponents for governor, Lt. Gov. Mark Taylor or Secretary of State Cathy Cox, a ready-made TV commercial: "Every woman in the Georgia House of Representatives — Democrat and Republican alike — voted to protect child support for Georgia's kids, but the Republican leadership voted 'no.' "

Ehrhart has fought for years to overturn Georgia's support laws, claiming that they require child support payments that exceed the actual costs of child rearing. He had no evidence that Georgia awards were out of whack, only complaints from parents paying those awards. In fact, based on the available data, Georgia awards appear in line with the rest of the country.

Last year, Ehrhart succeeded in finally revamping the state's system for calculating support. However, the complex bill lacked specifics and contained legal gaffes, so a commission was appointed this past summer to review it and fill in the blanks, including creating an economic table estimating what it costs people of various incomes to raise children in Georgia. The table is critical because it's how judges will set support.

Commission members, notably Superior Court Judge Louisa Abbot of Savannah, Georgia Court of Appeals Judge Debra Bernes and Troup County Juvenile Judge R. Michael Key, labored for months to mitigate the worst aspects of the bill. Faced with two economic tables, they eventually persuaded the commission to adopt the higher one.

But there was a trade-off. Ehrhart got the commission to agree to lower the parenting time trigger to 91 days.

While the women of the Senate succeeded in forcing a change in that deal, it was a male colleague who spoke most plainly about why the whole concept of linking time spent with children to child support amounts is wrong.

"A day here or there doesn't reduce the monthly expenses of the mothers," said state Sen. Steve Thompson (D-Powder Springs). "It doesn't stop the upkeep of the house and the daily school money. The problem with this bill is that it gives someone economic credit for being a daddy, and that's stupid. You don't need to pay somebody for being a father. "


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; US: Georgia
KEYWORDS: childsupport; feminazis; manhaters; theft; waronfathers
The problem with this bill is that it gives someone economic credit for being a daddy, and that's stupid. You don't need to pay somebody for being a father. "

Oh, but its ok to pay somebody for being a mother? Well that's how it works today. The usual double standard woman's a victim manhaters in all their glory.

1 posted on 01/28/2006 8:21:47 AM PST by buccaneer81
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To: Allegra; Dashing Dasher

PING!!


2 posted on 01/28/2006 8:22:21 AM PST by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: right right

PING!!


3 posted on 01/28/2006 8:23:13 AM PST by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: buccaneer81

Gee how about this. Make Child Support tax deductable. Since in many cases the Father pays all the bills but the Mother gets all the tax credits since she is the custodial parent.


4 posted on 01/28/2006 8:26:26 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Is there a satire god who created Al Gore for the sole purpose of making us laugh?)
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To: MNJohnnie

Better yet, at the divorce hearing, let the wife set the child support figure to whatever she wants. But then the husband gets to choose whether to pay the support, or have custody of the kids


5 posted on 01/28/2006 8:56:12 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the hubris to think they will be the planners)
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To: buccaneer81; Allegra; phantomworker; colorcountry

I wish I saved the names of the "It's only my sperm, not my responsibility" crowd. I would ping them to this article.

Bless the women and children in Georgia. I hope they make it through this fight for their lives.


6 posted on 01/28/2006 9:04:43 AM PST by Dashing Dasher (People who live in glass houses, shouldn't walk around naked... or throw stones....)
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To: buccaneer81
I will relate a true story sent to me yesterday by a Father's Group. If I remember correctly this took place recently in Michigan.

A husband and wife had a baby, but the man found out his wife was cheating on him with a guy named Jim. It turned out that Jim was the real father. After learning of his wife's adulterous affair, the man divorced her, and the ex-wife moved in with Jim, and then they got married. Naturally, the ex-husband was ordered to pay her child support for the child of the man she was now shacking up with.

But it gets more interesting. The guy's ex-wife leaves Jim and sticks him with the baby, (remember, he's the real biological father). Now the clincher. The ex-husband is ordered to pay Jim the child support now. So now we have a man who's not even related to the child paying child support to the child's father. What do you think of women's rights now?

This story was sent to me by "Fathers and Families"

7 posted on 01/28/2006 9:04:57 AM PST by TheCrusader ("The frenzy of the mohammedans has devastated the Churches of God" Pope Urban II ~ 1097A.D.)
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To: Dashing Dasher

The way I see it, ANYONE male of female who doesn't support their children should be sent to jail. Why can't we figure out what support is....it isn't always just financial. Sometimes those children with the most financially, are the ones with least "support."


8 posted on 01/28/2006 9:10:12 AM PST by colorcountry (Currently not in the process of becoming a God!)
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To: All

I know two men who have custody of their children. The mothers have not paid one thin dime, and not once have they paid a penalty. Another guy I know lost his job, got 2 months behind and spent 30 days in the klink, which of course, made him another month behind on support. Oh, what a fair system we have.


9 posted on 01/28/2006 9:17:16 AM PST by 383rr (Those who choose security over liberty deserve neither-)
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To: Dashing Dasher
Bless the women and children in Georgia. I hope they make it through this fight for their lives.

But to hell with many decent men, some of whom are barely allowed to see their kids and who live in poverty thanks to people of your mindset.

10 posted on 01/28/2006 9:22:02 AM PST by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: buccaneer81

Bump for later


11 posted on 01/28/2006 9:25:19 AM PST by Minutemen ("It's a Religion of Peace")
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To: colorcountry

I agree!


12 posted on 01/28/2006 9:31:12 AM PST by Dashing Dasher (People who live in glass houses, shouldn't walk around naked... or throw stones....)
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To: buccaneer81

Your words, not mine.


13 posted on 01/28/2006 9:31:34 AM PST by Dashing Dasher (People who live in glass houses, shouldn't walk around naked... or throw stones....)
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To: buccaneer81; Dashing Dasher; colorcountry
But to hell with many decent men, some of whom are barely allowed to see their kids and who live in poverty thanks to people of your mindset.

I just do not buy the fact that any decent man is not allowed to see his children. It just doesn't fly. The courts want equal visitation by both parents unless there are extenuating circumstances. I think, Bucky, that you might be letting some important detail out of this equation if you are not allowed ample visitation rights.

14 posted on 01/28/2006 9:33:44 AM PST by phantomworker (Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...and don't accuse me of your imagination.)
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To: TheCrusader; Dashing Dasher
I will relate a true story sent to me yesterday by a Father's Group. If I remember correctly this took place recently in Michigan.

I don't think you remember any of the details correctly in this story. I don't buy it.

15 posted on 01/28/2006 9:35:35 AM PST by phantomworker (Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...and don't accuse me of your imagination.)
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To: 383rr

This is all second hand experience and hear say. I would like to hear a first hand account of this and the details behind it. Often when we relay a story like this, we do not have the entire story.


16 posted on 01/28/2006 9:37:58 AM PST by phantomworker (Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...and don't accuse me of your imagination.)
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To: phantomworker
I just do not buy the fact that any decent man is not allowed to see his children. It just doesn't fly. The courts want equal visitation by both parents unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Franklin County Ohio Domestic Court Rule #27. Non-custodial parent has visitation every other weekend and from 5:00 to 8:00 PM on Wednesday.

That's it. That's me. The courts don't give a damn about equality for parents.

17 posted on 01/28/2006 9:39:47 AM PST by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: colorcountry

I agree. It is the emotional support that is sometimes lacking. And the mother has to play both mother and father to the child. I am certainly not bashing dads. I think many fathers do offer emotional support and should be offered the respect they deserve.


18 posted on 01/28/2006 9:40:39 AM PST by phantomworker (Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...and don't accuse me of your imagination.)
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To: buccaneer81

I don't mean to get into personal details, but what was the reason for so little visitation? There had to be something?


19 posted on 01/28/2006 9:42:07 AM PST by phantomworker (Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...and don't accuse me of your imagination.)
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To: buccaneer81

The problem is that while the court can force a parent to pay support, they can't force them to see their children. A parent under the proposed system can obtain 50/50 custody, not having to pay support, and then disappear from their children's lives.


20 posted on 01/28/2006 9:44:59 AM PST by LWalk18
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To: phantomworker

His schedule is standard for non custodial parents- every other weekend plus one evening a week.


21 posted on 01/28/2006 9:45:54 AM PST by LWalk18
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To: phantomworker
RULE 27: MODEL PARENTING TIME SCHEDULE LOCAL DOMESTIC COURT RULE 27 / LOCAL JUVENILE COURT RULE 22 MODEL PARENTING TIME SCHEDULE FRANKLIN COUNTY COMMON PLEAS COURT DOMESTIC AND JUVENILE DIVISIONS FOR PARENTS TRAVELING UNDER 90 MILES ONE WAY:

1. Weekends: Alternate weekends from Friday at 6:00 p.m. until Sunday at 6:00 p.m. This alternating weekend schedule shall not change, even when interrupted by holiday and birthday, summer and/or vacation parenting time. (See Section 5a below) 2. Weekdays: One weekday evening per week from 5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. which shall be Wednesday unless otherwise agreed and designated herein as

5. Holidays (includes birthdays): In odd-numbered years, Mother has Spring Break, Memorial Day, Labor Day, and the first half of Winter Break. In odd-numbered years, Father has Martin Luther King's Day, Fourth of July, Thanksgiving, and the second half of Winter Break. In the even-numbered years, the schedules are reversed.

a. In the event of a conflict between regular parenting time and holiday parenting time, holiday parenting time prevails. The alternating weekend parenting time schedule continues, however, as if the holiday had not intervened. This means that one parent may have the children three weekends in a row. This process equalizes itself over the course of time for each parent

d. Hours for parents who can not agree are as follows: Martin Luther King Day (9:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m.); Spring Break (6:00 p.m. on the day school is out to 7:00 p.m. the day before school recommences); Memorial Day and Labor Day (6:00 p.m. Friday to 6:00 p.m. Monday); July 4th (9:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. the next day); Thanksgiving (6:00 p.m. Wednesday to 6:00 p.m. Sunday); Winter Break (first half commences at 6:00 p.m. the last day of school before Winter Break begins, until December 25 at 1:00 p.m.; second half commences at 1:00 p.m. December 25 until 6:00 p.m. the day before school recommences).

8. Telephone Access: a. Children can call either parent as often as they wish, at reasonable times, so long as the call is collect, if it is a long distance call. b. In addition, the non-possessory parent shall be entitled to telephone communication with the children not less than three times per week for not less than 15 minutes per call. c. Possessory parent shall not interfere with or stop the telephone communication.

22 posted on 01/28/2006 9:46:53 AM PST by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: phantomworker
It's the stupid fighting with your ex, that makes it so tough on kids...the games we play of getting backatcha! Be a man (or woman), pay your support. Be a woman (or man) and quit holding your ex-spouse hostage to your hate and vengence.

It truly, truly is all about the kids!

My ex-husband never paid one thin dime of support for 3 kids. Because he didn't want to pay, he disappeared (which was okay by me - he was scum and not good for the kids in the first place.)

That was it! Over 25 years have gone and still no contact...but I never went after him, or tried to have him jailed. I supported my kids and was just glad to have him gone. They grew up loved, supported and secure. They are successful adults and I am now a grandmother of four.

Ladies, quit being vindictive. If he's not there then YOU must do it. Life isn't always fair.
23 posted on 01/28/2006 9:51:10 AM PST by colorcountry (Currently not in the process of becoming a God!)
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To: phantomworker
That's the standard here in Columbus. I kid you not. The courts stick hard to this unless of course there is shared parenting. In my case shared parenting is impossible because the ex took my son before the divorce was final and shacked up 55 miles away. With the third party that led to the whole mess. You can't be that far away and have shared custody because of school, etc.

The court gave her custody because of my son's age (four at the time) and they said I worked too much! (Yeah..all the better to pay the big support order.)

24 posted on 01/28/2006 9:51:51 AM PST by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: LWalk18
A parent under the proposed system can obtain 50/50 custody, not having to pay support.

What state is this, just curious? So in this state, 50/50 custody means no one has to pay support?

25 posted on 01/28/2006 9:52:36 AM PST by phantomworker (Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...and don't accuse me of your imagination.)
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To: colorcountry
...Ladies, quit being vindictive. If he's not there then YOU must do it. Life isn't always fair.

I respect you for that and I know your kids do as well. What a good feeling to be such a great role model for your kids and grandkids!

26 posted on 01/28/2006 9:57:07 AM PST by phantomworker (Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...and don't accuse me of your imagination.)
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To: phantomworker

Agreed.

He should also stop whining to us and go get himself a lawyer, if his statements are true.

If he really cared about his kids and was a decent man, he would be fighting to see them and not hunting through the internet for stories about how he was wronged.



27 posted on 01/28/2006 9:58:34 AM PST by Dashing Dasher (People who live in glass houses, shouldn't walk around naked... or throw stones....)
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To: Dashing Dasher

See posts #22 and #24.


28 posted on 01/28/2006 10:00:49 AM PST by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: buccaneer81

I am sorry to hear about how it worked out. I understand now. The big paychecks are a problem. Sorry.

Just as a thought, don't know if it is feasible, but can you move closer to your son and petition for shared parenting now that your son is older and maybe the financial situation has changed? Maybe some people forget that the original order can be easily modified.


29 posted on 01/28/2006 10:03:19 AM PST by phantomworker (Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...and don't accuse me of your imagination.)
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To: Dashing Dasher
He should also stop whining to us and go get himself a lawyer, if his statements are true. If he really cared about his kids and was a decent man, he would be fighting to see them

I've spent over $30,000 fighting for more time with my son. I'm broke. And I've been to jail for contempt of court (I told the judge she had no moral authority to deprive my son of his father and that she wasn't God.)

So I may be a whiner in your eyes, but I'm not wrong.

30 posted on 01/28/2006 10:05:01 AM PST by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: phantomworker
Just as a thought, don't know if it is feasible, but can you move closer to your son and petition for shared parenting now that your son is older and maybe the financial situation has changed? Maybe some people forget that the original order can be easily modified.

I could do that. But in order to modify custody in this state, its back to the court appointed shrinks and counselors and four to six month intervals between docket positions (if some lawyer doesn't ask for multiple continuances.) My ex can outspend me in court. After all, she gets $800 amonth tax free from me, and she earns $42k herself.

31 posted on 01/28/2006 10:09:24 AM PST by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: Dashing Dasher

I agree totally! If any dad really cared about seeing his kids more, I cannot imagine any court denying him more visitation rights within the law!!! Given that many dads do shirk their responsibility, the court would welcome it.

And, if any mother denies visitation rights to the dad, or blatantly tries to turn the kids against the dad, she can lose all rights to the kids herself.

I would personally help any dad that wanted more visitation rights with their kids!


32 posted on 01/28/2006 10:16:02 AM PST by phantomworker (Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...and don't accuse me of your imagination.)
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To: buccaneer81

When I got a modification to the order, I just filled out paperwork. Of course, my ex- agreed to the modification and signed the paperwork. There were free advocates, especially for child custody cases, available for advice regardless of income. I got the impression in WA anyway, that courts do not favor attorneys either. Maybe your ex- would like you do see your son more now that he is older and would now cooperate more.

Maybe things have changed in the court system since you tried last. It would be worth the effort to look into it. I just can't believe that nothing can be done. If that were me, I wouldn't let anything keep me from my kids.


33 posted on 01/28/2006 10:22:20 AM PST by phantomworker (Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...and don't accuse me of your imagination.)
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To: MNJohnnie

I'd be happy if the mother were required to provide proof that the child support money was spent for the child.


34 posted on 01/28/2006 10:23:26 AM PST by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: colorcountry

And sometimes the female moves 2,000 miles away while the male is deployed and doesn't tell him about it until the check is due, at which time she is kind enough to provide a P.O. box.


35 posted on 01/28/2006 10:25:57 AM PST by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: Doohickey

I know. That is the tragedy of the whole thing. I wish we could all had wonderful fairytale lives where everything is fair. But like I said honor your court-ordered duty (if you can't, get it modified)...be as much a father as you CAN be. You'll be better off for it and so will your kids.

I'm sorry the mother of your children cannot be a better mother and person. I'm glad you can be.


36 posted on 01/28/2006 10:29:29 AM PST by colorcountry (Currently not in the process of becoming a God!)
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To: buccaneer81

That's the Hobson's Choice, isn't it? You can have the kids if you're willing to give up the job you need to support them. Keep the job, and you get to give most of your earnings to a vindictive ex who can do whatever the hell she wants.


37 posted on 01/28/2006 10:30:23 AM PST by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: phantomworker
I don't mean to get into personal details, but what was the reason for so little visitation? There had to be something?

I see, you live in Washington. Every other weekend is standard for non custodial parents in Missouri as well. What is standard in your state?

38 posted on 01/28/2006 10:31:13 AM PST by ozarkgirl
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To: colorcountry

Well, my son is 20 now and his mother can no longer interfere in our relationship. We've become very close since he's been able to shed her yoke.


39 posted on 01/28/2006 10:34:51 AM PST by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: Doohickey

Congratulations! There you go, eventually you will be rewarded for your good behavior...and those without good behavior will suffer.


40 posted on 01/28/2006 10:36:11 AM PST by colorcountry (Currently not in the process of becoming a God!)
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To: ozarkgirl

When I filled out the paperwork, the residential schedule was expected to be 50/50 even though the kids ended up staying with me 100% of the time by default.

http://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/

http://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/documents/cu1_0450.doc


41 posted on 01/28/2006 10:40:30 AM PST by phantomworker (Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...and don't accuse me of your imagination.)
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To: colorcountry

Thanks, but I'm still very bitter. Does it show much? :)


42 posted on 01/28/2006 10:43:07 AM PST by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: Doohickey

I've been accused of being bitter too. Bitterness is just the tough outer shell we build up to keep us from being stung again.


43 posted on 01/28/2006 10:44:22 AM PST by colorcountry (Currently not in the process of becoming a God!)
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To: LWalk18

I know this could be rediculous question, but can't you talk to your ex and ask her for more time off. I guess sometimes I live in the dream world where both ex's try to be civil after a divorse. If that is not your case than sorry about the question. Good luck to you. I bet you are a great Dad and the kids know that don't worry.


44 posted on 01/28/2006 10:51:02 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: buccaneer81
Vanity Alert

I have a pic scanned, do I need to put it on a host page? Can I do this myself, or does anyone have a page so I can email the pic to them? I have been hunting for this pic on the internet for a long time and just scanned it from an old magazine myself. HELP!!!

45 posted on 01/28/2006 10:58:58 AM PST by bigjoesaddle ("Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke)
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To: bigjoesaddle
do I need to put it on a host page?

As far as I know, yes. But check out HTML Bootcamp (use FR search) to be sure.

46 posted on 01/28/2006 11:09:09 AM PST by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: napscoordinator
I live in the dream world where both ex's try to be civil after a divorse.

I really feel sorry for the dads who appear to lose it all in a divorce when it is the wife who was originally at fault or just a divorce, period, when the "marriage" is over. I can understand it seems like a dad can hardly start a new life when he has to pay so much support to his ex-. In some states the rules do seem unfair. If approx 50% of marriages end in divorce, you would think something should be done about it.

For the sake of the kids, I also would expect both ex-s to try to be civil after a divorce and at least try to work out agreements with the kids' best interest in mind. I always thought if it is shown that either parent is vindictive toward the other in front of the kids, they can lose custody. It's something to think about.

47 posted on 01/28/2006 11:23:35 AM PST by phantomworker (Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool...and don't accuse me of your imagination.)
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To: Dashing Dasher
I am attracted to these particular threads for some masochistic reason. But anyways, my ex-wife left me with three children and almost bankrupt. But I did manage to pull through with with time and a lot of prayer and understanding from creditors.

My youngest child was eight the oldest was twelve. I raised them all on my own without any child support from their mom. It took her almost three years after she left before she wanted to have visitation with her children.

It's been 13 years now, everyone is grown and my ex-wife has been diagnosed as having a mental disorder, she is on medication and has resumed a full and complete life.

So when I read these threads I do realize that we all come at this issue with our own emotional baggage weighing us down and coloring our views.

There are men and women who have by their actions enflamed us, (the reasonable, hard working and responsible for our actions) to the point that we become irrational with each other because "we" don't have the same life experiences and just don't understand why "you" don't get it, what ever the 'it' in question is.

So in a rambling and very general way, I am saying that I love to read what every one of you has to say about this most interesting and life changing subject and that each of us by neccessity of our personal life experience has to approach it from a different direction.

From my own personal experience though I can say that anger will eventually eat you up and that learning to let it go and accept that life isn't always fair and that the tough just keep getting up and going on will get you through the day and eventually through the month and the year ...etc.
48 posted on 01/28/2006 12:00:41 PM PST by The Working Man (Any work is better than "welfare"!)
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To: buccaneer81; All

Sad ;(

http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/forum

*Check-out*
MND Spoltlight, and Child Support Casualties thread.
This might provide some light into the War on Fathers?


49 posted on 02/01/2006 10:34:11 AM PST by Orlando
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