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Russia Moved Iraqi WMD
News Max ^ | March 3, 2005 | Charles R. Smith

Posted on 01/28/2006 8:41:24 PM PST by strategofr

Moscow Moved Weapons to Syria and Lebanon

According to a former top Bush administration official, Russian special forces teams moved weapons of mass destruction out of Iraq to Syria.

"I am absolutely sure that Russian Spetsnatz units moved WMD out of Iraq before the war," stated John Shaw, the former deputy undersecretary for international technology security. According to Shaw, Russian units hid Saddam's arsenal inside Syria and in Lebanon's Bekka valley.

"While in Iraq I uncovered detailed information that Spetsnatz units shredded records and moved all WMD and specified advanced munitions out of Iraq to Syria and Lebanon," stated Shaw during an exclusive interview.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: baathism; chicoms; china; coldwar2; communism; iran; iraq; johnshaw; kgb; prequel; putin; rasputin; russia; saddam; sovietunion; spetsnatz; spetsnaz; syria; terrorism; ussr; wmd
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Wow! Not surprised, but surprised it was documented like this.
1 posted on 01/28/2006 8:41:25 PM PST by strategofr
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To: strategofr
This was my theory too! I figure the Pentagon even has satellite photos of the transfers but can't make it public because we can't afford to alienate or destabilize Russia.

Apparently there is no such thing as a Republican Leaker.
2 posted on 01/28/2006 8:43:14 PM PST by msnimje (The Democrats have suffered an embarrassing and public SCOTUS Interruptus -- Welcome Justice Alito!)
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To: strategofr

The libs and the MSM will be all over this on the Sunday Morning shows...................right!!!!


3 posted on 01/28/2006 8:43:14 PM PST by gathersnomoss
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To: strategofr

Has this been reported anywhere else. The only thing I have seen is the General that stated they were moved.


4 posted on 01/28/2006 8:43:21 PM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghanistan Honor Roll students.)
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To: armymarinemom

Notice that this was written a year ago...and yet not one MSM reporter/pundit has backed off the "there were NO WMDS", stance.

I don't think they will either...even if we were to go to Syria and dig them up...they would find some way to rationalize that they weren't THE weapons on the list that Colin Powell referred to at the UN....

or...we planted them there...or some other excuse.


5 posted on 01/28/2006 8:47:05 PM PST by Txsleuth
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To: strategofr
"I am absolutely sure that Russian Spetsnatz units moved WMD out of Iraq before the war," stated John Shaw, the former deputy undersecretary for international technology security. According to Shaw, Russian units hid Saddam's arsenal inside Syria and in Lebanon's Bekka valley.

The Iraqi General says it was passenger air liners stripped of their seats that were used to ship WMDs. Why not both?

6 posted on 01/28/2006 8:48:09 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Condimaniac)
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To: strategofr

This is an old rumor, which came out a few months after we invaded and didn't find anything. The former head of the Romanian KGB was the source of the news.


7 posted on 01/28/2006 8:49:59 PM PST by GarySpFc (De Oppresso Liber)
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To: Txsleuth

"Notice that this was written a year ago...and yet not one MSM reporter/pundit has backed off the "there were NO WMDS", stance.

I don't think they will either.."

True. Bush could, if he chose to, bring it to everyone's attention. I'm not saying for sure he's wrong not to, but he might be.


8 posted on 01/28/2006 8:51:42 PM PST by strategofr (Hillary stole 1000+ secret FBI files on DC movers & shakers, Hillary's Secret War, Poe, p. xiv)
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To: Txsleuth

We'll never know what's the real truth, will we?


9 posted on 01/28/2006 8:52:12 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: strategofr
So far we are hearing personal accounts of WMD movements, but have not seen concrete evidence to back it up. These reports would be wonderful if true. They would vindicate the President. BUT, we must have absolute proof. We do not know if these people are saying these things to make money, or to throw people off the trail, or just to get their names in the paper.

Personally, I believe we have the documentation to prove this from the millions of documents seized after the fall of Iraq and more proof from other means. When the President will allow these to be released (if never), we shall see. Until then, let's not get to enthusiastic. After all, it is to easy for the DeathoCrats to smear a report simply because it is done from personal knowledge and has no back up proof.

Documented proof is much tougher to smear, but we all know the DeathoCrats will attempt it when it happens (if ever).

10 posted on 01/28/2006 8:54:05 PM PST by technomage
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To: Mike Darancette

It could have been both...there was probably a heck of a lot to move in a short period of time...since they didn't know for sure when the US would invade..

Also, remember there were Russian officials still in Baghdad the day we invaded...and they barely got out.

I am sure they were trying to get rid of the evidence of their complicity in the WMD program and move.


11 posted on 01/28/2006 8:56:39 PM PST by Txsleuth
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To: jb6; GarySpFc

Another in a list of what Putin has done bad...


12 posted on 01/28/2006 8:57:02 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: strategofr

It makes sense. I don't have confidence those ragheads could move those weapons without blowing themselves up. Explosives have a tendency to go off around these people, sometimes before they're ready.


13 posted on 01/28/2006 8:58:18 PM PST by Tall_Texan (The Democrat Party - emboldened by Hamas to combine terrorism with politics.)
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To: strategofr

I think there must be a security or political reason that Bush doesn't want to reveal what they know about the whereabout of the WMDs...

I think HE is more intent on winning the war on terror, and stabilising Iraq...than proving he was right...especially since at this point we can't get into Syria and look for them (if we haven't already gone and found them)...

Bush is looking LONG term...and I am sure there is a lot that the Pentagon and even the State Department are reluctant to be made known...

Kind of like the NSA wiretaps...


14 posted on 01/28/2006 8:59:57 PM PST by Txsleuth
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To: stuartcr

Possiblity not, or not for a long time....there is just so much to do over there...and there may need to be some secrecy for a while.


15 posted on 01/28/2006 9:00:58 PM PST by Txsleuth
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To: Txsleuth
Also, remember there were Russian officials still in Baghdad the day we invaded...and they barely got out.

Yes, I recall that story. Russian military advisors were detained (by either us or the Brits, can't recall which) with a carload of files they were spiriting out of Iraq.

16 posted on 01/28/2006 9:01:17 PM PST by randita
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To: strategofr

Perhaps. One wonders why the Bush administration would keep this under wraps....like why they killed all follow ups to Clinton misdeeds.


17 posted on 01/28/2006 9:02:39 PM PST by spyone
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To: Txsleuth

How would anything be proven?


18 posted on 01/28/2006 9:03:04 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: Bookmaestro

ping


19 posted on 01/28/2006 9:04:06 PM PST by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: stuartcr

probably not.

My guess is that much of this stuff isn't even stored in Syria anymore, but the real nasty stuff eventually got moved to russia to either be destroyed or the russians gladly inherited it.

Anyone remember this story?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/convoy.html



20 posted on 01/28/2006 9:06:26 PM PST by Proud_USA_Republican (We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good. - Hillary Clinton)
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To: strategofr

Old news, short legs in MSM.


21 posted on 01/28/2006 9:06:32 PM PST by opbuzz (Right way, wrong way, Marine way)
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To: stuartcr

There ARE millions of pieces of Iraq correspondence and records that we have custody of ...the problem is getting them translated by people that don't have an agenda...

Plus, we would still have to actually find the WMDs and "show them"...which I think could take a while.

Stephen Hayes of Weekly Standard has followed this from the start...and seems to have the most detailed and up to date hunt for the "proof" and he is even confused and frustrated by the White Houses reluctance to at least make known what they know for sure about the WMDs...

Because he is convinced that pretty much everthing that Bush alleged the Iraqis had...before we went in, they DID have...but, the White House isn't talking about what they know...and all of these documents are languishing, waiting for translators to go over them...


22 posted on 01/28/2006 9:09:12 PM PST by Txsleuth
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To: stuartcr
"We'll never know what's the real truth, will we?"

Yes we will...

Right after we find out about the Warren Commission, Flight 800, the Vince Foster Murder, the OKC Bombing, and just who hired Craig Livingstone.

23 posted on 01/28/2006 9:11:02 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: strategofr

Nobody is going to change what the dems and the MSM have already done with this issue. But I will say that I wouldn't want to be them if the truth ever accidently gets out.


24 posted on 01/28/2006 9:15:01 PM PST by Liberty Valance (Super Man wears Jack Bauer pajamas)
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To: Txsleuth

The 'Rats have no interest in the truth. They are the party of historical revisionism and are totally addicted to the practice.


25 posted on 01/28/2006 9:17:20 PM PST by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington (How long do we have to pretend that Democrats are patriots?)
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To: strategofr


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/25/wirq25.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/25/ixnewstop.html

"In an exclusive interview with The Telegraph, Dr Kay, who last week resigned as head of the Iraq Survey Group, said that he had uncovered evidence that unspecified materials had been moved to Syria shortly before last year's war to overthrow Saddam.

"We are not talking about a large stockpile of weapons," he said. "But we know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD programme. Precisely what went to Syria, and what has happened to it, is a major issue that needs to be resolved."


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1615880


Kay: "I actually think the intelligence community owes the president
(an explanation) rather than the president owing the American people
(an explanation). You have to remember that this view of Iraq (that it
had WMD) was held during the Clinton administration and didn't change
in the Bush administration.


Kay said there was "a constant stream of trucks, cars, rail traffic"
moving from Iraq to Syria. "We simply don't know what was moved," he
said, adding, "The Syrian government has shown absolutely no interest in
helping us resolve this issue."


he told NPR "I think it was reasonable to reach the conclusion that
Iraq posed an imminent threat."




26 posted on 01/28/2006 9:18:18 PM PST by Names Ash Housewares
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To: Txsleuth

The Pentagon does not want to atagnoise Russia, the "Former" USSR, or China right now.


27 posted on 01/28/2006 9:20:31 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: gathersnomoss
The libs and the MSM will be all over this on the Sunday Morning shows...................right!!!!

Ummmmm, don't hold your breath...

28 posted on 01/28/2006 9:20:59 PM PST by GOPJ
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To: strategofr

Spetsnaz are in Venezuela right now, with their Chinese pals.


29 posted on 01/28/2006 9:21:08 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: GarySpFc
This is an old rumor, which came out a few months after we invaded and didn't find anything. The former head of the Romanian KGB was the source of the news.

Actually, the source of this news is "John Shaw, the former deputy undersecretary for international technology security". If you have some actual information showing that the Romanian is his sole source, do share.

30 posted on 01/28/2006 9:23:16 PM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: Thunder90

I think you are very right...

and, regardless what some think of Condi..and her politics, she is an expert in Russian history and political history..so she is, I am sure, storing a lot of information NOT for public consumption.


31 posted on 01/28/2006 9:29:25 PM PST by Txsleuth
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To: spyone

The Clintoon misdeeds go into some very bad places, so bad that even Bush can't go there.


32 posted on 01/28/2006 9:30:23 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: Thunder90

Russian and Chinese espanoge for one.


33 posted on 01/28/2006 9:31:15 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: F16Fighter

Well, I doubt I'll be alive.


34 posted on 01/28/2006 9:31:23 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: stuartcr
We'll never know what's the real truth...

Wow! What a concept, the "real" truth!

-PJ

35 posted on 01/28/2006 9:31:56 PM PST by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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To: strategofr
There is no question that the Russian effort to remove Iraqi WMD systems was the most successful intelligence operation of the 21st century. The Russians were able to move hundreds of tons of chemical, biological and nuclear materials without being discovered by CIA satellites or NSA radio listening posts. "There is a clear sense on how effective they were," noted Shaw. "The fact that the CIA did not know shows just how successful the Russian operation was," he concluded.

If true, our intelligence failed BIG TIME, especially right before an invasion when you'd think we knew everything happening on the ground.

36 posted on 01/28/2006 9:34:09 PM PST by DTogo (I haven't left the GOP, the GOP left me.)
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To: Political Junkie Too

There's usually a couple versions of truths around, I guess it depends on what kind of proof there is.


37 posted on 01/28/2006 9:35:59 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: gathersnomoss

The libs and the MSM will be all over this on the Sunday Morning shows

Ha ha ha you funny you make me laugh ha ha


38 posted on 01/28/2006 9:40:24 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (The Death Penalty isn't for making examples it's for making bad people DEAD!)
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To: msnimje

I saw the satellite photos online of a huge convoy moving northwest from Baghdad along the river and west to Syria a few days before we invaded. Now I can't find those photos anywhere.


39 posted on 01/28/2006 9:45:21 PM PST by zot (GWB -- four more years!)
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To: strategofr

BTTT


40 posted on 01/28/2006 9:51:16 PM PST by angelsonmyside
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To: technomage

Real proof will come in the form of a chem barrage from Bekka when the Israelis hit the Iranian nuke sites.


41 posted on 01/28/2006 10:04:56 PM PST by wildcatf4f3 (the friend of my enemy is my enemy)
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To: strategofr; Itzlzha; flashbunny

this has been talked about for quite some time.

Russia Hid Saddam's WMDs by Ion Pacepa (head romanian spy who took orders from KGB) Washington Times | October 2, 2003

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=10111


42 posted on 01/28/2006 10:07:18 PM PST by Stellar Dendrite (There's nothing "Mainstream" about the Orwellian Media!!!)
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To: armymarinemom

see #42


43 posted on 01/28/2006 10:07:56 PM PST by Stellar Dendrite (There's nothing "Mainstream" about the Orwellian Media!!!)
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To: Dr. Frank fan

see #42


44 posted on 01/28/2006 10:10:32 PM PST by Stellar Dendrite (There's nothing "Mainstream" about the Orwellian Media!!!)
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To: strategofr

This thread is 100% gold plated tin foil.


45 posted on 01/28/2006 10:24:02 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: Thunder90; GermanBusiness; Igor M; ausrus; Hill of Tara; Timedrifter; Alex-DV; ValenB4; ...
According to a former top Bush administration official

That "top" official was fired by DoD for corruption and his "evidence" was his opinion. This is an old story that "blew" up right in Oct as part of the democrat's October surprise, which died about as quickly in 2004.

46 posted on 01/28/2006 10:55:28 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: Stellar Dendrite

Ion Pacepa-- Soviet Romanian mass murderer who switched sides when he saw the fall coming and has become the neocon(artists) favorite hero. The man butchered and oppressed his people in the worst dictatorship since Stalin's. The man should have been put up against the wall with Cecesque, his former master.


47 posted on 01/28/2006 10:57:30 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: wildcatf4f3

Iran has had chemicals for a long time and actively used them on Iraqi civilians during the Iraq-Iran war.


48 posted on 01/28/2006 10:58:18 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: DTogo

Does intelligence fail? Or is it that partisanship is so bitter that protecting America is put on a back burner?


49 posted on 01/28/2006 11:31:40 PM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: sageb1

Partisanship, in reviewing intell prior to the incursion?


50 posted on 01/28/2006 11:52:31 PM PST by DTogo (I haven't left the GOP, the GOP left me.)
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