Posted on 01/29/2006 11:14:04 AM PST by John Jorsett
After two decades of use, the U.S. Department of Defense is getting rid of its Beretta M9 9mm pistol, and going back to the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) weapon. There have been constant complaints about the lesser (compared to the .45) hitting power of the 9mm. And in the last few years, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the marines have officially adopted .45 caliber pistols as “official alternatives” to the M9 Beretta. But now SOCOM has been given the task of finding a design that will be suitable as the JCP (Joint Combat Pistol). Various designs are being evaluated, but all must be .45 caliber and have a eight round magazine (at least), and high capacity mags holding up to 15. The new .45 will also have a rail up top for attachments, and be able to take a silencer. Length must be no more than 9.65 inches, and width no more than 1.53 inches.
The M1911 .45 caliber pistol that the 9mm Beretta replaced in 1985, was, as its nomenclature implied, an old design. There are several modern designs out there for .45 caliber pistols that are lighter, carry more ammo and are easier to maintain than the pre-World War I M1911 (which is actually about a century old, as a design). The Department of Defense plans to buy 645,000 JCPs.
SOCOM will, with input from other branches, handle the evaluation and final selection. This will take place this year, and if the military moves with unaccustomed alacrity, troops could start getting their JCPs next year. But don’t hold your breath.
Smartest move they have made in years!
Just change the bullet to a hollow point and the 9mm would do the trick.
Would not trade my M1911 .45 for another gun, period.
Are they going to sell the old nines?
Last time I fired an M1911 .45 I couldn't have killed myself with a shot to the temple it was so inaccurate. I'd keep the Beretta, unless they're coming out with an new/accurate .45 design.
Uh oh. A camel is a horse designed by committee.
Yeah, but the 9mm would still have a problem going through multiple layers of clothing, unless maybe it were a 357Sig cartidge.
'Bout damn time!
Seems to me that a .357 SIG or .40 would be better.
Lighter ammo, higher capacity, and heck of a punch.
Flatter shooting, too.
Your gun must have been a piece of garbage. My Kimber .45 is extremely accurate.
For what you paid for it, it better be. ;-)
I wouldn't give a dime for one of those 9mm Berettas. I owned one and couldn't hit the side of the barn and they have no stopping power. I'd rather use a 22.
It was a standard issue M1911 .45 out of the armory. Maybe just a bad pistol, but man was I unimpressed, compared to a Beretta 9mm I've fired and hit small targets 25 meters away.
As I understand it, the Geneva Convention prohibits the use of hollow points.
The use of hollowpoints is banned in international warfare by the Hague Convention of 1899.
Maybe...
Glock makes a .45. If they'd add on the stuff the military is asking for, I'd think that would be the gun of choice. Glocks are nearly indestructable unless you decide to run them through a bandsaw or something.
You dont have to be a gun expert to know what gun you would trust in a fight after youve fired a 45 and then a 9mm.
Ridiculous, a kinder, gentler bullet ?
I carry a Glock G21 45 acp. I love it.
Hollow points are outlawed by the Geneva Convention. We won't
do that.
And here I was thinking we were going back to 45 vinyl records. ;~ )
I agree that its better to hit with a .22 than miss with a .44, but the .45 accuracy issue is all about the particular model and upgrades. My brother can empty the clip in five seconds and hit a hand sized target with every shot at 70 feet. I sure am glad he's MY brother.
Some time in the future -- about 50 years from now -- someone at the Pentagon will make the U.S. military switch back to 9mm/.38 cal pistol. History doesn't progress -- it just turns in circles.
I saw a guy put 5 in the x ring with a 1911 in three seconds from 50 feet.
Holding the pistol upside down, one hand on his knee, bent over and firing with his pinkie.
He was the coach of the USMC pistol team in 1975.
I guess you just have to shoot it right.
Dream on. They are far too expensive.
Ping...
It's a strong candidate for sure, but I'm not sure it meets the "rail on top" requirement mentioned in the article. Most of the newer .45 designs have accessory rails beneath the barrel, wonder if they want an AR-15 style picatinny rail too.
I wonder if Glock's .45GAP is in consideration, same ballistic properties, shorter cartridge.
If it was a military issue .45 then the most likely problem was that it was worn out. Most military .45s are 60+ years old very few military 1911's were built after WW2.
This is kind of misleading. The military isn't ditching the 9mm for the .45. Ruger was just given a contract by the U. S. Army Tank automotive and Armaments Command for their P95.
I carry a .45 and I think our troops should to.
This makes me think these guys are serious. Issuing 45's means no more fooling.
You lose accuracy with a heavier round.
The 9mm is not garbage. I can stop someone with a 9mm just as fast as I can with a .45.
Is a hydra-shock the same? Now that I have my pistol permit to carry I use the .32cal version ...
.45's don't have clips.
LOL! Very True! Very True!
I agree. But (referring to above post) I'm just a pansie wussy pussy who likes his Sig P226 9mm for self defense. Series, I'd have gone for the .40 S&W years before the caliber was developed and therefore bought a Browning HiPower in 9mm. I have so many rounds of 9mm that I didn't want to introduce a new "flavor" in my inventory mix. Ergo, I bought the P226 last year in 9mm.
Wow! Thank you Mr. Hyperbole!
not necessary at handgun ranges and the guns can be made much more accurately than the original 1911, which as anyone knows has been made very accurate in guns like the colt Gold Cup.
I own a WWII 1911A1 Remington Rand....always shoots, never jams and up to 25 yards is a guaranteed man killer (not pretty groups but good enough) further away than that and you should have your Rifle or Carbine out and ready.
especially if you have 100 rounds in a helical magazine. A .22 is larger in diameter than an ice pick. Does anyone think that getting several punctures from an ice pick are nothing to worry about? How about 20 or 30?
Rate of fire, boys and girls. Rate of fire.
Way back when the old arquebus (matchlock) used in the 30 years war in the mid 1600s was an .80 caliber monster. Give me a .22 pistol with large capacity mag over one of those single shot (and horribly innacurate) monsters any day. Of course a pump shotgun with extended capacity would be even better.
Now, the ideal is a reasonably large caliber round with accuracy, capacity and stopping power. A modern .45 should do just fine.
Though I do have a fondness for the extremes:
The "F" in BFR is supposed to stand for "finest." Yeah, and the "Fs" in BUFF really stands for "fat fellow."
Please continue to dazzle us with your exquisite brilliance and unmatched expertise.
Awesome move to improve our soldiers killing power on those who would kill our troops. Lock and load BUMP!!
Darn, my picture of the Calico .22 showed up fine in preview. Sorry about that.
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