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Great Britain: Don't Dare mess with us (HMS Daring billed as world's most advanced warship)
The Sun (U.K.) ^ | January 30, 2006 | TOM NEWTON DUNN

Posted on 01/30/2006 2:29:38 AM PST by Stoat

EXCLUSIVE
Don't Dare mess with us
Awesome ... Sun man on supership
Awesome ... Sun man on supership
Pictures: PAUL EDWARDS
 
 
 

By TOM NEWTON DUNN


Defence Editor

 THIS is the deadliest ship ever built — the Navy’s awesome new Type 45 destroyer.

HMS Daring boasts an extraordinary array of firepower. And The Sun was given an exclusive tour of the state-of-the art warship.

Daring is the first of a batch of eight Type 45 destroyers — built at a total cost of £6BILLION.

Weighing in at 8,000 tonnes, the 14-deck monster is almost twice the size of the current Type 42s.

She is armed with 48 Aster missiles with 40lb warheads — each can stop even the fastest enemy jet 60 miles away.

 


 

Skipper ... Cmdr David Shutts
Skipper ... Cmdr David Shutts
 


The ship, built by BAe in Glasgow, will be launched by the Countess of Wessex on Wednesday.
 
Defence Secretary John Reid said: “The launch of the Type 45 is a milestone for the Royal Navy.”

HMS Daring’s first captain, Commander David Shutts, said: “Sailors have begged to serve on her.” 


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: britain; daring; england; greatbritain; hmsdaring; navy; royalnavy; rulethewaves; ship; ships; uk; unitedkingdom; waronterror; warships
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Telegraph Money The big ship Navy is back

The big ship Navy is back
(Filed: 29/01/2006)
 

This week's launch of HMS Daring marks a new era in British warship construction. But will it last? Sylvia Pfeifer reports

Two workers in navy-blue overalls stand 15 ft above the ground in a cherry picker, busy smoothing out rough patches on the steel bow of a giant warship. On the decks above them, dozens of others crawl over the ship. Outside by the entrance to the cavernous hall, an electronic clock counts down next to the words "Days to launch"

.

 

In three days' time, weather permitting, the workers will launch the 153m ship into the Clyde. The official launch - which will be attended by 11,000 guests, including the Countess of Wessex - will mark a major milestone in the £6bn programme to supply the Royal Navy with its first new class of warship for several years.

HMS Daring is the first of the new Type 45 destroyers and the largest vessel launched from BAE Systems' Scotstoun yard in Glasgow. But the launch is much more than just another photo opportunity for royal watchers.

In the yard's centenary year, and just over 200 years since the Battle of Trafalgar, Britain's shipbuilding industry is enjoying a revival, buoyed by the largest work programme in a generation. With the Royal Navy's two new aircraft carriers and the Astute submarines, the 7,350 tonne Type 45 destroyers will form the backbone of the Royal Navy's air defence for the first half of this century. The final piece of the jigsaw is Mars (short for Military Afloat Reach and Sustainability), a £2bn-plus supply ship programme which is just at its formative stage. "It's the return of the big ship Navy," says one industry executive.

Vic Emery, the managing director of BAE's naval shipbuilding division, says talk of a revival is "true to some extent".

The company recruited 300 people last year to cope with the increased workload; it plans to hire the same number this year and a further 250 in 2007. Investment has also kept pace with the orders; since 2001 BAE has committed £55m in capital expenditure to bring the Clyde yards up to speed for the warship programme. Emery proudly points out that the company has taken on 280 apprentices in the past three years as well as 50 graduates.

Ross McLure, the module hall manager at Scotstoun who started in the industry as an apprentice plater in 1976, says that much of the uncertainty that plagued the work force during the 1980s and 1990s, when redundancies took place nearly every two to three years, has gone.

"It's only in the past three to four years … that you can say there is continuity," he says on a walk around the ship. "We've never been able to look ahead for eight years even."

Having witnessed three "first of class" launches during the past three decades, McLure is adamant that the Type 45 is in a class of its own. In a new style of partnership with other contractors, the bow of the ship was built by VT Group, the support services and shipbuilding company, at its yard in Portsmouth and shipped to the Clyde where it was put together with the other blocks built at Scotstoun. The second and third ships in the six-ship order are already being built at BAE's Govan yard on the other side of the river.

Apart from its impressive length, the ship boasts a radar mast that is as high as the Twin Towers of the old Wembley Stadium, a flight deck large enough for 20 London buses and a fitness centre for its mixed crew of 190. It is the first time a ship has been designed from the start to have women on board.

It is the first front-line warship to use all-electric propulsion and, when ready to go into service in 2009, will be equipped with the latest in warfare technology. Apart from a design that incorporates stealth technology, the Type 45 will have an anti-aircraft missile system, PAAMs, which is capable of taking out supersonic aircraft. Connecting it all, are 400 miles of cabling and 19,000 pipes.

Nevertheless, despite such superlatives and the industry's healthy signs, there are concerns that the renaissance could fizzle out. The original requirement from the Government for 12 Type 45s has already been scaled back to eight and the overall budget has been cut by £145m following a decision to reduce the capabilities of the ships.

Much depends on whether the Government confirms an order for the final two vessels. According to Emery, unless BAE and its partners get approval to build two more Type 45s, it could lead to a gap in workload until the next big project starts in earnest, that to build the aircraft carriers.

Emery says: "What we need to secure in terms of continuity of work are two more Type 45s. The ministry have said they will buy up to eight but the budget is creaking. That would secure that there would be no gap at all."

Paul Lester, the chief executive of VT Group, is equally blunt. "Type 45 is the first in a series of projects that will sustain the industry for a period of some 15 years and gives us the opportunity to plan the long-term future. The programme has allowed us to recruit and train new skilled personnel in preparation for further projects, notably the future aircraft carriers. However, it is vitally important that ships seven and eight are ordered so that we do not suffer any break in production through to the aircraft carriers and therefore avoid the risk of losing those skills," he says.

Emery says he expects to hear more from the MoD by the summer, and declares himself "optimistic". "I believe it's really an affordability issue. There is no doubt the end-user wants eight."

Above all, what executives are striving for is a long-term strategy for an industry that has been dominated by peaks and troughs. A new maritime strategy, unveiled by Lord Drayson, the defence procurement minister, in December, has gone some way towards assuaging concerns.

At the heart of the review is a move to build a strategic partnership between industry and government to help safeguard future warship building capability. The alliance building the naval carriers is also expected to form the blueprint for a wider grouping of naval shipbuilding firms that could lead to the formation of a new national champion in warship construction, dubbed "ShipCo".

Emery says "the initial flush of the review is positive", pointing out that he has been calling for a more of a partnership with the Ministry of Defence for three years. Nevertheless, as always, "the devil is in the detail".

"We need to understand what the intention is. We want a single entity. Anything other than that … and you don't get the economic benefits," he says.

But any thoughts about the best way to ensure the industry's long-term future will be no doubt be at the back of his mind on Wednesday when the HMS Daring takes to the water for the first time. "I can't wait," says Emery. "To get the first one in the water is a great event. I will be elated."

BAESYSTEMS.com

Programmes
Naval Ships - Type 45 Destroyer
Image: Artist's concept of aft view of Type 45 destroyer with helicopter about to land on aft deck.  
  Introduction

  Type 45

  Smart

  Evolution

  News

  Partners

  Procurement

  Downloads

  Contact
 
Image: Film reel Click here to view an animated film of Type 45 Destroyer development, assembly, trials and deployment.

 

 

World's Most Advanced Warship

World's Most Advanced Warship
 

The world’s most advanced warship, HMS Daring, will be launched from BAE Systems’ Scotstoun yard on February 1st. A website dedicated to the launch has been set up.

Designed for a wide audience from school children to journalists, type45.com features information about the class of ships, downloadable images and, as the countdown goes on, interviews with the people who designed and built the ship and the people who will be using her.

Speaking as the website was launched, BAE Systems Naval Ships Head of Communications Charles Thompson said: “The launch of HMS Daring will confirm that the Clyde remains the natural home of warship building in the UK. This is an important event not only for Glasgow but also for the Royal Navy. This website will ensure that everyone can follow the build up to the launch whilst learning about the capability Daring will deliver to the British fleet for decades to come.”

http://www.baesystems.com and http://www.type45.com


1 posted on 01/30/2006 2:29:42 AM PST by Stoat
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To: Stoat

Yeah, but what about Exocet?


2 posted on 01/30/2006 2:31:47 AM PST by Banjoguy (I will rot in Hell before I buy another Dell!)
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To: Banjoguy

bump


3 posted on 01/30/2006 2:34:08 AM PST by Former Proud Canadian (.)
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To: Stoat
The Royal Navy may not be as big as it once was when guarding the Empire. But its still the only navy in the world that I respect as being professionally the equal of ours.
4 posted on 01/30/2006 2:34:31 AM PST by jecIIny (You faithful, let us pray for the Catechumens! Lord Have Mercy)
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To: Banjoguy
I think your about 2 decades behind the times friend.
5 posted on 01/30/2006 2:35:21 AM PST by jecIIny (You faithful, let us pray for the Catechumens! Lord Have Mercy)
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To: Stoat

I'd be very curious to know the capabilities of this ship vs. the long talked about American DD(X).


6 posted on 01/30/2006 2:36:34 AM PST by PittsburghAfterDark
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To: Stoat

SO what happens when some barbarian shoots Greek fire on their deck.


7 posted on 01/30/2006 2:38:15 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Stoat
Two things I found amusing:

It will be launched 'weather permitting',

and 'It is the first time a ship has been designed from the start to have women on board.'

8~)

8 posted on 01/30/2006 2:43:22 AM PST by real saxophonist (The fact that you play tuba doesn't make you any less lethal. Semper Fi)
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To: All
"She is armed with 48 Aster missiles with 40lb warheads — each can stop even the fastest enemy jet 60 miles away. "

aster30-launch.jpg (12574 bytes)
Launch of an Aster 30 missile from the French Navy trails ship Ile d'Oléron

Aster 15 - Aster 30

 

Aster 15
Aster 30

Eurosam is a Franco-Italian joint venture created by the French companies Aerospatiale and Thompson-CSF and the Italian firm Alenia/Finmeccanica in order to develop the anti-missile programme FSAF (Future Surface-to-Air Family), which is organised around the Franco-Italian missile Aster. This family has a naval component, the PAAMS (Horizon program) and a mobile land component to be mounted on vehicles which is currently under development.

  The two versions of the missile differ only in the size of their first booster stage and, consequently, their range: from 1.7 to 30 km in the case of the Aster 15, and from three to 80 km in the case of the Aster 30. When it enters service, the Aster will be the Western World's first surface-to-air missile with active guidance. The Aster is capable of load limits of 60 G in its terminal phase thanks to its aerodynamic pilot, in addition to which there are impulses from lateral jets at the center of gravity, making last-minute corrections of trajectory possible at the moment of interception. That capability makes the Aster unique in the world.

In December 1997 Aerospatiale announced two significant firing tests of Aster 15 and Aster 30 missiles. In the first test an Aster 15 successfully intercepted a sea-skimming target in a very high electronic countermeasures environment. The Aster scored what the French immediately called a "Hit-to-Kiss". Aster's impact point was under a meter from its target's center of gravity. On 11 December 1997, an Aster 30 ground launched missile underwent s its first validation firing against a real target. The intercept occurred at a distance of 16.2 nm. (30 km) from the launch point at an altitude of 36,000 ft (11,000 meters). The C22 target was flying at Mach 0.84 (900 km/h) and the Aster 30 intercepting the target head-on and from above at Mach 2.68. The recorded miss-distance was less than 4 meters.

Aster is capable of evolving in the direction of an antiballistic role in the future. The missile would be able to deal with ballistic missiles with a range of 1,000 km as they reenter the atmosphere. The homing head would have to be made more powerful or its algorithms speeded up, considering the approach speeds involved. The field of the proximity fuze would have to be reduced from 60o to 30o to increase its sensitivity, and fragmentation of the explosive charge would have to be adjusted to produce larger fragments.

The Principal Anti-Air Missile System (PAAMS) is a new surface-to-air missile system, developed essentially to provide medium-range air defence and anti-missile protection for high-value units, such as aircraft carriers or merchant tankers, in the vicinity of the escort. The Horizon air defence frigate project involves France, Italy and the United Kingdom. The program covers the ship and secondary weapon systems, and PAAMS. the PAAMS has not suffered from London's recent decision to withdraw from the Horizon frigates program. The Horizon International Joint Venture Co., the prime contractor designated for the program, is owned by the French firm Direction des Constructions Navales (DCN) International, the British firm GEC-Maritime Ltd., and the Italian company Orrizonte SpA. The operational specifications for the frigate were set out in the "Trilateral Staff Requirements" document signed in 1992. However, the partners encountered major difficulties in their efforts to reach agreement on the operational capabilities of the missile system.


9 posted on 01/30/2006 2:45:07 AM PST by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: real saxophonist
let's batten down the ladies' room
10 posted on 01/30/2006 2:45:17 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: PittsburghAfterDark; Jeff Head
I'd be very curious to know the capabilities of this ship vs. the long talked about American DD(X).

When (if) the DD(X) comes out it will be the baddest mofo floating anywhere on the 7 seas. Easy! However that is still in the future (and there are still some people who would rather have the money spent on rare lichen slugs). The thing that I personally find most interesting about this ship though is its PAAMSystem ....that is a true competitor to our AEGIS system. Actually it is the only REAL competitor to the AEGIS that I can think of (I know there are nations that have radars that are similar, for example the Chinese four-array multifunction PAR, but PAAMS is the only thing I can think of that can stand with the AEGIS and not be put to shame).

Anyways, glad the Brits have this.

11 posted on 01/30/2006 2:47:28 AM PST by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: real saxophonist
Two things I found amusing:

It will be launched 'weather permitting',

hehe!  I suppose that there's no need to muss the Countess of Wessex' hair now is there?  :-)

and 'It is the first time a ship has been designed from the start to have women on board.'

I suppose that this means separate bathrooms (ladies' in pink and mauve of course) , 24 hour manicure facilities and a Godiva chocolates vending machine on each level  :-)


12 posted on 01/30/2006 2:49:43 AM PST by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: spetznaz
My post above should have been as follows:

When (if) the DD(X) comes out it will be the baddest mofo floating anywhere on the 7 seas. Easy! However that is still in the future (and there are still some people who would rather have the money spent on rare lichen slugs).

The thing that I personally find most interesting about this ship (the British HMS Daring) though is its PAAMSystem ............

13 posted on 01/30/2006 2:50:51 AM PST by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: Stoat

bookmark for later read


14 posted on 01/30/2006 2:54:03 AM PST by ken5050 (Ann Coulter needs to have children ASAP to pass on her gene pool....any volunteers?)
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To: Stoat

Even the cabin boys are new and improved.


15 posted on 01/30/2006 2:54:21 AM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Bend over and think of England.)
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To: Banjoguy

I think that's what the 30mm cannon are for.


16 posted on 01/30/2006 2:57:19 AM PST by Pharmboy (The stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones.)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

I suppose, since women will be serving on this ship, that the time-honored position of 'powder monkey' has been eliminated. Sad to see so many Royal Navy traditions falling by the wayside.


17 posted on 01/30/2006 3:00:08 AM PST by Calico Cat
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To: Stoat
may God bless her and all who sail upon her.
18 posted on 01/30/2006 3:02:01 AM PST by BigCinBigD (Merry Christmas!)
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To: Stoat

Terrific ship, and PAAMS is a good system.

I wish - however - that we had fitted it with multiple purpose launch tubes, not these admittedly superb but single role missiles.

Historical note: Exocet was defeated during the Falklands war by going bow-on to the threat, as the crew of HMS Gloucester can testify.


19 posted on 01/30/2006 3:03:16 AM PST by agere_contra
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To: Calico Cat

Powder monkeys will be supplemented by powder girls, I guess.


20 posted on 01/30/2006 3:07:14 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Stoat

the ship sucks - it has no sails.


21 posted on 01/30/2006 3:09:15 AM PST by globalheater (There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare - Sun Tzu)
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To: globalheater
the ship sucks - it has no sails.

Nor gunports. What would Jack Aubrey say?

22 posted on 01/30/2006 3:26:48 AM PST by Riley ("What color is the boathouse at Hereford?")
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To: globalheater
the ship sucks - it has no sails.

I miss the romantic imagery of the Age of Sail as well, but I do believe that Admiral Lord Nelson would be quite proud, knowing that Great Britain will be so very well protected by such a fine ship and a fine Navy.  And my guess is that the Royal Navy's sailors don't need to tap their biscuits on the table to knock the weevils out anymore   :-)

H.M.S. Victory
His Majesty's Ship Victory


23 posted on 01/30/2006 3:28:04 AM PST by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat

God Bless the Brit's. Our nation's heritage comes from good stock.


24 posted on 01/30/2006 3:44:35 AM PST by TruthFactor (The Death of Nations... pornography,homosexuality,abortion)
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To: Stoat

Nice target!

A bubblehead's perspective!


25 posted on 01/30/2006 3:52:25 AM PST by montomike
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To: Stoat

Allelectric propulsion---please tell me its not Lucas Prince of Darkness.


26 posted on 01/30/2006 3:53:02 AM PST by wildcatf4f3 (the friend of my enemy is my enemy)
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To: spetznaz

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

Thee haughty tyrants ne'er shall tame,
All their attempts to bend thee down
Will but arouse thy generous flame;
But work their woe, and thy renown.


27 posted on 01/30/2006 3:54:12 AM PST by old republic
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To: BigCinBigD

+1.


28 posted on 01/30/2006 3:57:52 AM PST by real saxophonist (I survived Parris Island AND Hurricane Hugo! At the same time! Semper Fi)
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To: Stoat

Excuse me, but since when is a "destroyer" considered a "big ship". I thought they were the SMALLEST class of oceanic war vessels, with cruisers, battleships, and aircraft carriers being larger.


29 posted on 01/30/2006 4:43:13 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: jecIIny

Really? That much...?


30 posted on 01/30/2006 5:26:01 AM PST by Banjoguy (I will rot in Hell before I buy another Dell!)
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To: Wonder Warthog
I thought they were the SMALLEST class of oceanic war vessels, with cruisers, battleships, and aircraft carriers being larger.

Noöne has completed a battleship since the French Jean Bart in 1949. No battleships are operational

Russia built 4 large cruisers in the 80/90s. Only the Petr Velikiy is operational

Everything else that is not an aircraft carrier comes from destroyer designs (whatever they happen to be called)

31 posted on 01/30/2006 5:26:10 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. Pascal)
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To: Wonder Warthog
Excuse me, but since when is a "destroyer" considered a "big ship".

It looks like the Brits are borrowing a page from the USN book, which is to call a Cruiser a Destroyer. Congress will not fund Cruisers, since they are so costly, but will fund the "cheaper" (1 billion +) "Destroyers".

The USN Frigate is more in line with a DD. Our DDGs are equivalent to a WWII Light Cruiser in size (displacement differs because of armor plate, non-existent on the new DDGs).

32 posted on 01/30/2006 5:40:16 AM PST by KeyWest (Help stamp out taglines!)
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To: jecIIny

I spent some time with the Japanese Navy and must say that they are every bit as professional as ours, as are the Australians.


33 posted on 01/30/2006 5:48:07 AM PST by ExpatGator (Progressivism: A polyp on the colon politic.)
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To: Stoat

That thing looks like it was designed by committee.


34 posted on 01/30/2006 5:49:36 AM PST by ExpatGator (Progressivism: A polyp on the colon politic.)
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To: Wonder Warthog
Excuse me, but since when is a "destroyer" considered a "big ship". I thought they were the SMALLEST class of oceanic war vessels, with cruisers, battleships, and aircraft carriers being larger.
---
The Ticonderoga class was the last class of cruisers built in the world. Of course the Iowa class was the last battleship class used by any country.
So now you go from aircraft carriers to destroyers. A steep drop.
35 posted on 01/30/2006 5:57:48 AM PST by Cheburashka
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To: Cheburashka
So now you go from aircraft carriers to destroyers. A steep drop.

Actually right down to where the submarine lives....IMO, a much better way to spend the naval dollar.

36 posted on 01/30/2006 7:45:27 AM PST by Banjoguy (I will rot in Hell before I buy another Dell!)
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To: old republic

Come sheer up, my lads, tis to glory we steer!
With heads carried high, we will banish all fear!
To honor you're called, we are free men not slaves,
For who are as free as the lords of the waves?
Hearts of oak have our ships,
Jolly tars are our men!
We'll always be ready -- Steady boys, steady!
We'll fight and we'll conquer again and again!


37 posted on 01/30/2006 8:08:59 AM PST by Snickersnee (Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?)
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To: Stoat
This thread deserves a White Ensign!


38 posted on 01/30/2006 8:45:51 AM PST by GreenLanternCorps (I'm pink, therefore I'm Spam.)
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To: Stoat

Bunking for male couples?


39 posted on 01/30/2006 8:47:46 AM PST by countorlock (But thy strong Hours indignant work'd their wills, And beat me down and marr'd and wasted me,)
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To: snugs; MadIvan

Good morning, snugs and Ivan. I thought you might be interested in this thread about the Royal Navy.


40 posted on 01/30/2006 8:49:27 AM PST by Wolfstar (Someday when we meet up yonder, we'll stroll hand in hand again, in a land that knows no parting...)
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To: jecIIny

Spent a lot of time working with the Indians, Japanese, Dutch, and Germans in my day. Top-flight squids, all.


41 posted on 01/30/2006 9:02:44 AM PST by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: countorlock
Bunking for male couples?

Let us all hope and pray that this sort of insanity

Great Britain Gay soldier to wed partner (Dad of 3 to live with new 'wife' in Army quarters)

will not be implemented in the Royal Navy or on this fine ship, and that Great Britain's proud traditions will not be sullied by this sort of vile social experimentation.

Our dear British Friends deserve far better.

42 posted on 01/30/2006 1:11:35 PM PST by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat

I had a lot of respect for England a year ago. It's all gone now because of their gay marriage thing. Blair was so pleased that the injustice of gay married people not being allowed to adopt kids is now over. England makes me sick anymore.


43 posted on 01/30/2006 1:15:29 PM PST by countorlock (But thy strong Hours indignant work'd their wills, And beat me down and marr'd and wasted me,)
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To: countorlock

I believe some of your States allows full gay marriage not just civil unions are you sick of those too.

I do not agree with gay marriage or civil unions but your comment is ridulous.


44 posted on 01/30/2006 3:14:20 PM PST by snugs (An English Cheney Chick - BIG TIME)
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To: countorlock
I had a lot of respect for England a year ago. It's all gone now because of their gay marriage thing. Blair was so pleased that the injustice of gay married people not being allowed to adopt kids is now over. England makes me sick anymore.

I believe I can say that I understand how you feel and I do share your disgust with the recent social changes that have been made in Great Britain.   The U.K. has many troubles right now, with most of them being caused by Socialism and the evil forces of the Left. 

I would wish, however, to sincerely urge the reconsideration of any desire to wholly forsake Great Britain now, during her time of great need.   It is my heartfelt belief that this 'gay marriage' business and associated insanity is not a true reflection of the soul of the British people.  I believe that this is, in fact, an opportunistic violence that has been visited upon them as a result of Leftist deviousness and corruption as manifested through the voting and political processes.  I will be quick to admit that I am no expert on the subtleties of British politics; there are many Britons who have contributed to this thread and elsewhere on Free Republic who are far more qualified than I to speak at length or in detail on this.  Let me just say that I believe that the British people are better than this, and that the only reason why these awful things have been allowed to happen is because their Conservatives are in political disarray and so are unable to mount an effective rebuke to this.  I believe also that sometimes things have to get pretty bad for complacency to be replaced by action, and I have hope and faith that the true and honorable majority in Great Britain will soon rise up en masse to bring light back into this dark era that they have entered.

Over the past two hundred years, Great Britain has proven itself a great and true friend, through good times and bad, to the United States.  They have been an unshakable, stalwart ally in many world conflicts as well as the current war on terror.  Our culture and our very existence is under attack by Islamofascism, and we share this culture with our British friends.  We must continue to stand together and consider the long-term view.  "Gay marriage' and adoption laws can be revoked and changed in future administrations, but a nuke that's set off in London could do far more damage than anything Hitler was able to do.  I would wish to urge a long-term view, and instead of casting aside our great and true friends when they are at a point of internal social crisis to instead reach out and offer support and friendship, and perhaps an occasional bit of help for positive change.

45 posted on 01/30/2006 3:48:26 PM PST by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: GreenLanternCorps
This thread deserves a White Ensign!

It absolutely does, and I welcome it's inclusion.

However, I must sheepishly confess ignorance as to it's proud history and significance.  In case there are any other Yanks who may be as equally ill-informed as myself, I found this short history which may be of some help.

Thanks very much for your post and for the opportunity to educate myself just a bit better  :-)

Royal Navy The White Ensign

 

The White Ensign

The White Ensign
 


In 1627 the English Fleet (as it was then) was divided into three squadrons, the Red, Blue and White, in that order or seniority, and each had an English ensign in the appropriate colour with St George's Cross in the top corner. By 1653 the order of seniority had been changed to Red, White and Blue and in 1702 a large red cross was placed on the White Ensign to differentiate it from the French ensign, which at the time was plain white. In 1707, following the political union of England and Scotland, the three ensigns came to bear the Union Flag in the top corner as they do this day. In 1801 the additional red diagonal of St Patrick's Cross was added to the Union Flag and the three ensigns then took their modern form.

OM(C)s raising the EnsignNelson was the Vice Admiral of the White Squadron, so Trafalgar was fought under the White Ensign in 1805 rather than the Red or Blue one. In 1864 the squadron system was abandoned and the entire Royal Navy adopted the White Ensign, meanwhile the Merchant Navy was allocated the Red Ensign, and the Blue Ensign was reserved for non-military government ships. During the years since then a large number of special ensigns have been created for many organisations (including yacht clubs and government departments) whose badges have been placed onto a blue or red ensign to create a new and distinctive flag.

The White Ensign remains the premier British maritime flag and is worn by all Her Majesty's ships. Several other nations have developed their own versions of the White Ensign including Australia, India, Jamaica and Nigeria.


46 posted on 01/30/2006 4:20:00 PM PST by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: TruthFactor
God Bless the Brit's. Our nation's heritage comes from good stock.


47 posted on 01/30/2006 4:38:02 PM PST by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: snugs
I believe some of your States allows full gay marriage not just civil unions are you sick of those too.

Yes, completely.

48 posted on 01/31/2006 4:35:34 AM PST by countorlock (But thy strong Hours indignant work'd their wills, And beat me down and marr'd and wasted me,)
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To: Stoat
Very nice post!

I love England and my last name show, clearly, that my ancestry is mostly English. Many of the things that make this nation great come straight from england. It was same sex marriage that pulled me onto the FR and that is a topic about which I get very emotional.

I've stated recently my disgust for corporate America, for whom I work, because of their acceptance of gay marriage benefits. So I guess you have to take my statement in context. I'm digusted with a lot of groups over this issue.

Again thanks for such a nice post about England. I love England, but just damn! It's like finding out your son or dad is gay.

49 posted on 01/31/2006 4:41:39 AM PST by countorlock (But thy strong Hours indignant work'd their wills, And beat me down and marr'd and wasted me,)
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To: Stoat

I respect and admire the British Navy, but I don't believe for a minute that this is the deadliest ship ever built. I'm sure the folks at Groton, Ct and Newport News, Va will agree with me.


50 posted on 01/31/2006 4:43:15 AM PST by moose2004 (You Can Run But You Can't Hide!)
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