Posted on 02/05/2006 12:57:00 AM PST by kms61
Agreed. That's the more important issue here.
Legislators can be replaced and legislation can be rescinded or changed. Anybody on this thread griping about the bankruptcy laws has the power and opportunity to contact their congressional delegation about those laws and to support candidates for public office who agree with them--or even to run for Congress themselves.
Judge-made legislation by activist judges is forever.
Deadbeats don't need an incentive, they rack up debt and then shirk it because they like it. It's their perverted sense of personal responsibility to gain riches on the backs of others.
So, in essence, if people don't have the money to pay their debts, they will still be in Chapter 7. Lenders can't get blood from a stone. Anyone who lends money must be prepared not to get that money back. Lending carries risk. As another poster wrote, facetiously I hope, anyone stupid enough to lend him money doesn't deserve to get it back.
The United States Government never paid them back even a penny for funding George Washington at Valley Forge. One such man was Robert Morris 1733-1806. He spent his own fortune plus borrowed on his name to fund the Revolutionary War as did many others who are now forgotten. Ones like Haym Salomon (1740-1785) who also was not repaid and died in debt and poverty. His money bought the freedom you enjoy today. Ready to pay up? That's my point. You want to talk about injustice? There's you some good ones to consider.
Bankruptcy laws are abused no doubt about it. Oh BTW you know that "It was not your to give" article that pops up from time to time? Well the man who wrote it went bankrupt and left behind him debt. It's a good principle but even the author himself was to know misfortune of debt he could not pay. Yep many long for the Good Old Days in the U.S. but fail to see the injustices it brought. As for your other questions I addressed them on a newer thread.
You should consider the fates of ones whom this nation still owes debt to since the late 1700's. This would include your debt {ancestors estate} by older bankruptcy laws most of which were derived from King George himself and carried on as tradition into the 1800's.
Until you come back to this planet , I'm afraid I have nothing left to say .
Good day
Are you talking about Florida's "estate by the entirety"? The Supreme Court ruled that those are now subject to federal tax liens.
That's because no one tells you what you only want to hear perhaps? No I do not agree with you not 100% anyway. Your reasoning and logic is failed. You yourself enjoy and use that which others pay for some pay more than you some pay less. I showed you the reality of it. I showed you why laws were changed. I showed you that even THEUPMAN's freedom and good fortune in this nation came from the misfortunes of others.
You seem to really be one self centered jerk with your demands. You keep going on about Big Screen TV's. Your brain is so dysfunction it seems you can not comprehend the difference between debt acquired through misfortune and debt deliberately ran up {Big Screen} and want to lump it all in one pile. What I told you is this nations history. Look it up.
When you do business especially as a lender it has risk. This has been true all through the ages. It's just the same as retail sales you adjust price to cover loss. Come on let's hear your rant about you paying for a stores rotten banana's they could not sell. Let's hear you rant about why should I be made to pay for what I did not use or buy. I answered you other questions on another thread. I think you are a baiting Troll and not much of anything else actually. When people answer you and you don't like the answers you keep repeating the broad demands.
We all pay for others debts that is called business. You pay for the loss of others whether you like it or not no matter how that loss occurs. I can tell you this. Loaning money to others and asking usage fee or interest is morally questionable but I don't hear you ranting about that. Actually it was not intended for man to loan money for profit. But I doubt you know where that comes from either.
Running up debt FOR WHAT YOU NEVER INTENDED TO PAY FOR IS NOT MORALLY RIGHT. IT IS ILLEGAL AND WE HAVE LAWS THAT COVER IT. WE ALSO HAVE LAWS THAT COVER DEBT NOT INTENTIONALY AQUIRED THAT WAS BEYOND A PERSONS CONTROL AND MEANS TO PAY. CAN YOU SEE THE ANSWER NOW?
GROW UP!
And this is a entirely different matter than the last one we talked about. Free health care for all? No I'm against it. It does not work and will lead to the rationing of health care as is being put in place now.
BUT persons who through wage deductions {right or wrong} who have paid for Social Security Benefit coverage those claims should be honored. That is not something for nothing that was the government acting as an insurer. Congress should honor services for what it took through wage conscription. Such services should be limited to just those to whom paid. Those payments for services should come directly via of the government treasury and not be subcontracted to private overseer's. By placing the oversight into private handling the tax-payer looses all representation and rights to petition the government over the matter. It should be stopped and the Medicare/Medicaid HMO programs closed ASAP.
When Hillary Care came along I fought it tooth and nail. I live in the state it was put into place. All Hillary Care is besides Universal Health Care is HMO corporate welfare. The funding under Medicaids original intent which was for the death of a workers family, the disabled worker and family, and the retired worker. Universal Health Care applies it to all persons many of who never paid a cent.
I'm actually for the phasing out of Social Security. BUT the congress is going to have to start coming down hard on some corporations namely insurers to accomplish this. HMO type systems should be shut down as pyramid schemes. The money is not reinvested to make profit and cover losses or payouts it is paid out in wages and share holders benefits with none being used to cover potential loss.
As for free housing? No. Make persons work for such except when health forbids such. If this was applied the projects would virtually vanish.
Until Medicare and Soc Sec is privatized much of the current Medicare/ Medicaid expenses can be cut simply by programs that encourage self help. For example most {not all but most} patients in nursing homes could be better treated at home. The cost for both housing and medical care would drop very sharp. Granted some persons with advanced diseases do in deed need nursing home services. Most however do not. It makes no sense to me for Medicare HMO's to balk at items which would encourage home health. I know it can be done I've done it 20 years and I had no formal medical training.
The hospitals need to be deregulated to where churches can again afford to own and operate them. Again this also means cracking down on insurers who try to defraud customers through denial of claims by even the most trivial means or purposely delay payments. Why should HMO's have protected status in our nations courts?
The Great Society as it is called brought ruin. It allowed fathers to abandon their responsibility to their family. Fathers who can pay to support their children and don't IMO should be locked up. BUT the amount of mandatory support should be reasonable as well. No fault divorces should be ended. Divorce for good reason like adultery, abuse, or abandonment or stay together. Many so called free thinkers aren't gonna like that one.
As for our education system? Place it back to a local level and allow such groups as churches to operate schools unharassed. Stop the NO Child Left Behind nonsense as well. On my state Big Brother is trying to gather the 4 year olds now in public schools. Encourage Trade Schools and Apprenticeship Programs for students not college bound. Many schools could be ran by private industry or churches. Home Schooling should not be regulated either.
And you pegged me as being a Liberal? LOL. Not hardly. The very mention of the political party I have supported for the past 10 years earns the wrath of forum management. No I'm not Libertarian nor a DEM. I do support mainly a third Party though which is Constitutional Government Oriented.
I know such changes are needed and must come about and I am all for it. But I know it can not be accomplished overnight without anarchy being the end result. But that is not the way congress is headed. The recent Medicare reforms were patterned just like TENNCARE a program Senator Bill Frist has supported & helped to fund through out his senate career.
Now try to Spin That!
This case isn't about letting unpricipiled debtors escape their debts. It's about a stupid and inane requirement that before the debtor can file bankruptcy, he must pay for and attend a few hours of debt counseling.
Tthe judge merely said that this requirement presents a trap for the debtor and the system would be much better served by requiring the debtor to attend intensive counseling before he can emerge from bankruptcy.
'The fellow should resign from the bench and run for the legislature, since he seems to prefer legislating to interpreting the law. Of course the bench is full of such people; more of a problem than the bankruptcy laws.'
"He did follow the law. He complained about it and criticised it, but he also followed it."
An excellent point. In fact, if someone has demonstrated a desire to legislate from the bench, as this judge's comments suggest, but then goes on to demonstrate the ability to overcome that desire and follow the law (even when "it's an ass" as is perhaps the case with this new bankruptcy legislation), then I suppose you could say it's better to have such judges than those who pretend to be "just interpreting in the light (and penumbras and eminations) of the Constitution" and then right their prejudices into law via precedent setting. So maybe this judge should be on our short list for promotion?
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