FDA Is Urged to Ban Carbon-Monoxide-Treated Meat

WahingtonPost.com ^ | Monday, February 20, 2006 | By Rick Weiss

[Fawn]

"Picture two steaks on a grocer's shelf, each hermetically sealed in clear plastic wrap. One is bright pink, rimmed with a crescent of pearly white fat. The other is brown, its fat the color of a smoker's teeth.">Which do you reach for?

[Fawn]

Mmmm....just add in some mad cow and I'll be all set.

[Fawn]

"The meat industry knows the answer, which is why it has quietly begun to spike meat packages with carbon monoxide."

[50sDad]

Irradiate it while your at it...I may take a week or so to get to that steak.

[50sDad]

Irradiate it while your at it...I may take a week or so to get to that steak.

[Blueflag]

I cannot understand why, physiologically or otherwise why someone would care if their food was packed in CO, CO2, N2, or Helium for that matter.

(BTW I am not gonna read the compost article - don't want to give them the hits)

How many folks on FR realize that snack bags are 'inflated' with dry nitrogen -- to reduce breakage and promote freshness and shelf life?? OMG they are packed in a CHEMICAL!!!! oh the horror.

[MineralMan]

Me, I like nice brown dry-aged steaks, with fat the color of old horse's teeth. They cook up nice and tender.

[Jeff Chandler]

I agree. What's the big deal?

[Publius6961]

Irradiate it while your at it...I may take a week or so to get to that steak.

Speak for yourself.
If I had access to irradited food, particularly meats, I would grab them in an instant.

Placed in danger by the ignorant. Not the best of feelings...

[Jeff Chandler]

...brown dry-aged steaks, with fat the color of old horse's teeth. They cook up nice and tender...and taste like liver.

[Red Badger]

Just teach the cows to smoke..........

[Jeff Chandler]

If I had access to irradited food, particularly meats, I would grab them in an instant.

At least hamburger.

[kidd]

This all sounds like another Alar scare.

[Publius6961]

Just to be perfectly clear: I would prefer the bright colored meats, all other things being equal.

[Incorrigible]

The "FrankenFood" types would go wild despite the fact that food irradiation would eliminate so much food poisoning.

[Itzlzha]

"The meat industry knows the answer, which is why it has quietly begun to spike meat packages with carbon monoxide."

It's been going on in the fish industry for years!

#1 Sushi grade Tuna is worth BIG $$$/lb. So, certain Tuna Boats have CO systems on board...see it ups the red myeglobin, which artifcially improves #3 or #2 grade for bigger $$$!

When buying your fish for sushi at home, it is VITAL to know your fishmonger! #2 grade is GOOD for seared steaks, it is NOT sushi grade!

[Eric in the Ozarks]

CO2 keeps those salmon fillets nice and pink.

[HEY4QDEMS]

But the growing use of carbon monoxide as a "pigment fixative" is alarming consumer advocates and others who say it deceives shoppers who depend on color to help them avoid spoiled meat

Stupid me, I've always read the expiration date

[ml/nj]

'inflated' with dry nitrogen

As opposed to wet nitrogen? What are you talking about?

ML/NJ

[ThanhPhero]

They are trying. Planting crops in rows is unnatural and causes bad vibes in food plants. The resulting produce will give you CANCER and you will DIE!

[GrandEagle]

If you can set it out on the counter overnight and still eat it the next day - AVOID IT in the first place!

[Blueflag]

Exactly. You can purchase two type of industrial "gasses" - wet and dry.

For instance, race car teams purchase big green cylinders of dry nitrogen so the tire pressure is more predictable without dealing with the phase change of water - steam in a hot tire. You don;t want to inflate your tires with wet nitrogen and introduce water vapor / water droplets. Same is true for food processing.

[traderrob6]

I have been in the meat business for twenty years and frankly this is the first I've heard of "carbon monoxide" being used. We have used "CAP" controlled atmospere pack for a long time but that is CO2 (carbon dioxide)which retards the action of bacteria that cause browning.

[jra]

LMAO on teaching cows to smoke.

[elcid1970]

`Dry nitrogen' is itself a drying agent. I service night vision goggles for the Army. Each goggle is vacuumed and then filled with dry nitrogen to prevent internal fogging.

Don't know how it's used in food preservation, though.

[LegendHasIt]

More fear mongering... Google carbon monoxide and the first hundred or so hits will scream at you "deadly poison---- "

But that is not quite correct. It is no more a poision inherently than the plastic fiilm that wraps the steak in the store.. Both can cause you to smother because when misused, they can interfere with the breathing process... but if carbon monoxide could be made solid at room temperature, you could eat a whole plate full with no ill effects.

[Politically Correct]

I cannot understand why, physiologically or otherwise why someone would care if their food was packed in CO, CO2, N2, or Helium for that matter.

The local butcher has started using CO and the various cuts are now showing up at the various grocery stores in the area. What I noticed is that packages of hamburger stay real pink even at the stores where they don't move the product.
Really not a problem as long as you watch the date on the package.

[The Electrician]

I have recently seen fresh tuna steaks at the grocery that are claimed to have been "smoked". Is that what you are referring to?

[English Nationalist]

BAN DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE NOW!1!1!!1111!1

[ml/nj]

Excuse my ignorance.

I thought nitrogen gas is composed entirely of N2 molecules. How 'bout some non-acidic nitrogen where they leave out the HCl?

ML/NJ

[Old Professer]

Probably didn't want us to confuse "dry" with liquid nitrogen which school labs for dramatic demonstrations of em-brittling.

[Itzlzha]

I have recently seen fresh tuna steaks at the grocery that are claimed to have been "smoked". Is that what you are referring to?

I can't answer that...it'd require knowing the smoking method, and if they cold smoked with CO to keep that color pretty. They SHOULD be forced to say if they used CO, but the big producers are fighting that! Smoked fish should have a Pellicle ring from the smoke...and depending on the thickness of the steak/fillet and how longit was smoked and what method determines how thick the ring is.

Do yourself a favor...learn how to smoke your own foods, and do it yourself. I love smoked Blue Fin steaks, shrimp, I smoke all kinds of meats.

No, just like the article says, CO interacts with the myEglobin (the article misspelled the damn word!), and causes the fresh meat to go from that Purplish red to a bright pink, and stay there...it doesn't degrade as the beef sits onb the shelf...so they can push out that "freshness date" becuase there will be no coloration to give the game away!

In Tuna, especially Blue Fin, CO bumps the Tuna up a grade...only experienced buyers that can taste the difference raw can tell.

[xroadie]

BAN DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE NOW

How right you are. Just the other day I discovered cans of tuna packed in the deadly stuff!!

[fromscratchmom]

I've been looking into the natural food movement for a few years now and buying into some of the claims made. I've tried to make certain changes in my family’s diet as a result. But all along I have been terribly bothered by all of the libs I come into contact with, for example when I work with a local food cooperative. I am really interested in organic food and some other things, but almost hate to admit it to any of the people I actually respect, because it is so pooh-poohed by most conservatives. (And I sure don't know any liberals that I can really respect). My food co-op cronies want the government to fix the problems they see in the food industry and I want more natural foods to catch on in a free market place and become more affordable but remain unregulated.

Anyway...after thinking about it for a few years I think I have come up with a truly conservative solution to my problems with the FDA and the pathetic job they appear to do. Let's just get rid of them, at least the food part of the agency. Why should our tax dollars go to a big bureaucracy that can tell us what is safe and healthy? Maybe we should be free to decide for ourselves. I can avoid food-coloring and my conservative friends can gobble it up. I can seek out an old fashioned butcher I trust and my conservative friends can do the same or not as they decide, rather than as the government decides.

[SoothingDave]

If you can set it out on the counter overnight and still eat it the next day - AVOID IT in the first place!

You can't. It might look OK, but it isn't. That's the beef, so to speak, here. That the beef will look pink and fresh longer that untreated beef. It's got nothing to do with spoilage or use by dates. Those are still what you need to go by.

SD

[RonF]

If you're not going to read the article, I'll be glad to tell you what's up. Carbon monoxide (CO) and oxygen (O₂) both bind to the hemoglobin in blood and the myoglobin in muscle tissue. This causes the globin to change in color from blue to red. Since muscle is generally well-oxygenated when it is slaughtered, red meat looks fresh and reddish-blue meat doesn't. The difference is that O₂ will eventually un-bind from the globin. CO doesn't, at least not nearly as fast. This is why CO is a poison; because all the O₂ binding sites in your blood's hemoglobin get filled with CO and it blocks the O₂ from being able to bind to the hemoglobin and get carried though your body. It also explains why people exposed to CO turn red and their blood is red, even though they are essentially suffocating to death. CO thus makes meat look fresh even when it isn't, and misleads the consumer, especially if they don't know the meat has been CO-treated. As the above posters have noted, one should read the expiration date on the meat. But improper storage conditions can invalidate those dates. I'd much rather judge the condition of meat by looking at it in it's natural state than have it CO-treated and have to depend on what the butcher and industry, State and Federal regulations think I should accept as fresh.

[RonF]

myEglobin

I learned it as "myoglobin".

[GSlob]

Well, CO is indeed toxic, although none of it would be left there if you cook your meat and do not eat it au naturelle together with the packaging. Other gases you mentioned are nontoxic.

[VOA]

Why should our tax dollars go to a big bureaucracy that can tell us what
is safe and healthy?

As much as I hate big (and medium and small) bureaucracies,
there are a few reasons for an FDA (assuming it mostly sticks to
its' mission):
1. Avoiding a return to "the good old day" when there was no FDA...
adulterated foods, adulterated pharmaceuticals, rot-gut booze (you
don't want to know what was thrown into the vat for "that extra kick!").
2. Protection against mass-scale terrorist poisoning of food/drug. There are
things that could end up in our bodies that could incapacitate/kill
thousands (or millions) before the danger is recognized.

ON "2." above, I don't know how or if FDA fits with Homeland Security,
but I'd suspect they are at least a second-tier defense in case
a large-scale food/drug poisoning of Americans were tried by
Osama's buddies.

[RonF]

Plastic wrap is not inherently a poison because it's interference with bodily processes is a physical one; as long as a wad of it isn't blocking your airway, it's fine. You can eat it with no effect. But carbon monoxide cannot be safely ingested. If you breathe it in, it binds to the hemoglobin in your blood in a much more permanent fashion than oxygen does, and blocks oxygen from binding to the blood's hemoglobin. CO displaces O_{2, but O2 cannot displace CO. If you breathe in CO, your blood turns bright red and the affected blood carries no oxygen to your tissues. Block enough O2 carrying sites in your blood and you die.}

[delacoert]

Pardon me if this is off topic, but while reading this thread I began to wonder if there is any correlation between those that oppose food treatments (like CO, irradiation, genetic engineering) and those who either endorse or oppose teaching intelligent design in science instruction. (IMO, people tend to get weird on both subjects.)

Personally, I am confident that whether packaged in CO, irradiated, and/or genetically engineered there are NO inherent dangers. I also don't have a problem with teaching both evolution and ID, as long as everything taught under the umbrella of evolutionary theory continues to be taught.

:Putting-on-asbestos-coveralls:

[P-40]

although none of it would be left there if you cook your meat


And don't breath the meat either. :)

[Blueflag]

Thanks for the insight into the article. Just so ya know, I am a cell physiologist by education/training ;-)

IIRC, CO binds chemically to the iron in the hemoglobin, rendering it incapable of accepting and releasing an O2.

Treating meat with CO renders the CO inert as a poison/toxin to humans. IT cannot, under ANY circumstances I can imagine, be harmful to the person who opens or cooks or eats the food. IF the issues is whether or not the 'freshness' is observable, then I find that concern equally weak. Most of the smell of 'old' meat comes from chemical changes to fat, not muscle tissue. Fat is unaffected by CO absorption. If you are going by the color of the meat, then you are using highly variable empirical means to judge freshness.

Anyway, I stick with my original opinion that CO treatment of meat to keep it redder longer is no worse or better than packing apples and bananas in the right gasses to keep them looking fresher longer.

Caveat emptor.

;-)

[SoothingDave]

Well, CO is indeed toxic, although none of it would be left there if you cook your meat and do not eat it au naturelle together with the packaging. Other gases you mentioned are nontoxic.

I don't have a problem with this, but if they're going to do it, it should be stated on the packaging.

SD

[GSlob]

"And don't breath the meat either. :)"
In these days of people inflating themselves with laughing gas from whipped cream aerosol cans and sniffing glues and paints one never knows what the next fad will be.

[Blueflag]

just so ya know, there is a S M A L L risk with genetically engineered foods, only due to what is temporarily unknown, that folks with allergies (reactions to proteins) could have issues where they did not before, because the genetic engineering could cause the plant or animal to metabolize different proteins.

BUT THE SAME THING can happen in nature -- either as evolution or intelligent design or mutation or recombinant DNA etcetc.

Life ain't risk free.

[GrandEagle]

Thanks, I did understand that I just made a post that was somewhat unrelated. My wife and I got into a discussion about hot dogs. She likes them, I insist that they are just floor sweepings with so many preservatives that they will never ruin. You could leave the thing on the hood of your car for a week and it wouldn't spoil, it would just dry out. Add water and you good to go. Way to many preservatives.
Not very related to the topic of the thread so I probably should have just kept quiet!

Cordially,
GE

[allen08gop]

I always thought that sodium nitrate is what turned the meat red.

Normal color is more like brown but we would never buy it.

Am I wrong?

[Blueflag]

The fact that CO is toxic when inhaled is irrelevant here. The CO is bound chemically to the iron in the hemoglobin of the meat. It's not like HCN (cyanide) gas is enclosed in the packaging.

[AmericanChef]

I don't care what the argument is! Organic meat is about the tastiest stuff on the planet. I highly recommend it!

[ARealMothersSonForever]

I always thought that sodium nitrate is what turned the meat red.

Nope, you are thinking of potassium nitrate. Heck, you can go down to the Acco feed store and get a jar. Rumor has it that an eighth of a teaspoon each morning in your coffee has a diuretic effect. Read the label.