H & S Marines address the mess (Mess NIGHT!)

Marine Corps News ^ | Feb 24, 2006 | Lance Cpl. John J. Parry

[SandRat]

MARINE BARRACKS WASHINGTON (Feb. 24, 2006) -- In 1776, the United States declared its independence from the British government. However, the United States Marine Corps finds itself 230 years later, modifying the traditions of the British Royal Marine Corps and using those traditions as a foundation to create some of their own.

H & S Company NCOs of the “Oldest Post” carried on the tradition of formal military dining, or the Marine Corps Mess Night, Wednesday, Feb. 22.

First Sergeant Walter C. Baldwin, company first sergeant, H & S Company, said the purpose of the Mess Night, although formal, is to provide a change of settings from the normal workplace, creating an environment that allows Marines to share experiences with each other.

“Some people, put them in a different setting, and you’ll get a different result,” said Baldwin.

The history of the Marine Corps Mess Night is a mostly undocumented, word-of-mouth tradition passed down from generation to generation and is used by leadership to build esprit de corps between Marines.

“It’s beneficial for Marines to have these outings to build strong relationships with each other,” said Sergeant Clayburn Perry, food service inspector.

According to the Naval Historical Center, the history of military dining dates back to the Roman Legion holding victory feasts in celebration over its conquests of rival factions. Centuries passed and the tradition of these feasts continued with the Vikings and even King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table.

In sixth century England, the traditions of formal feasting spread into non-military society through religious clergy. The traditions of formal mess were taught to educators by the clergy through the years, and these educators began to teach British officers the mess traditions.

The Marine Corps bases their Mess Night on the traditions passed down from the British. The first Mess Nights were held in Washington, D.C. by the Marines from the “Oldest Post”

Over the course of American history, the British and American militaries continued to interact with each other using the formal dining tradition. In 1867, the British and American militaries held a formal dinner in Hong Kong, which involved “The Presidents Own,” the Marine Corps Band who calls 8th & I home.

Through the course of the 1930’s and 1940’s, the British and Americans had a series of mess nights that eventually led to the first literary mention of mess traditions in the Marine Corps. By order of General Lemuel C. Shepherd, 20th Commandant of the Marine Corps, the book “The Marine Officer’s Guide” was the first written documentation of mess etiquette.

At a Marine Corps Mess Night, British tradition can still be observed when the president of the mess tells the vice president of the mess that “It’s time to shed a tear for Lord Admiral Nelson.” The vice president, or “Mr. Vice,” dismisses the Marines when instructed by the president, or “Mr. President,” to quickly use the restroom.

The NCOs of the “Oldest Post” carried on the traditions of a mess night in full dress blues from the beginning of cocktail hour, which begins at 6:00 p.m. in the bar, to the fining of Marines for “disloyalty” and “disrespect” toward the mess just before 8:00 p.m.

The purpose of the fining is to have a laugh among Marines about the outrageous stunts pulled by the Marines to lighten the mood of the dinner, said Sergeant Marcus G. Chatman, president of the mess.

Sergeant Clint V. Reynolds, battalion and ceremonial drill education non-commissioned officer, accused another Marine of bringing his ketchup into the mess “because he loves it so much”.

“Say it ain’t so!” said Corporal Robert M. Speir, grounds worker for the “Oldest Post.” The mess went into an uproar, resulting in Chatman levying the maximum fine, which was set at three dollars for this mess.

Marines forced to pay fines at mess nights are summoned to see the vice president, normally the youngest member of the mess or for the NCO’s mess Corporal Raul E. Damiani, administrative clerk, H & S Company, who collected fines and enforced the mess’s presidential decisions.

“The night went very well, I felt as though certain bonds and friendships were made that could last a long time,” Chatman said.

Chatman was the Marine who brought up the idea of putting the night together for the NCOs. Using the same techniques to put the mess together as the Marines before him, Chatman consulted Baldwin about putting the mess together. Baldwin gave Chatman information about all the mess nights he had attended prior.

Of course, Baldwin didn’t mind helping, “The food is good, and the event was fun. Most military clubs do great cheesecake.”

The mess was successful and we plan on putting together more in the future, Chatman said. Chatman suggested that more Marines in Mess Night because doing so is following the tradition set by the Marines before him and possibly bringing in something new to the event.

[SandRat]

(From left to right) First Sergeant Walter C. Baldwin, company first sergeant, H & S Company, Master Gunnery Sergeant Frederick Upchurch (Ret.), guest of honor, Sergeant Marcus G. Chatman, president of the mess, Sergeant Major Michael J. Watkins, battalion sergeant major, Marine Barracks 8th & I, and Gunnery Sergeant Josue Santoyo, company gunnery sergeant, H & S Company, toast to their fallen Marines in combat during the toasting portion of mess night. The non-commissioned officer mess night was held to promote "Esprit de Corps" amongst the NCOs of H & S Company.
Photo by: Lance Cpl. John J. Parry

[SandRat]

WHAT????!!!!!! You missed Mess Night!!!!!!!

[JoeSixPack1]

2 questions...:-)

1. What's a Lance Corporal doing at My NCO Mess?

2. The only parties we had at Camp Lejeune were "Buffarillo" dances! :-)

Semper Fi

[SandRat]

Go Ugly Early and Avoid the Rush!

[jecIIny]

In the Navy we called it Dining In. Same general concept though. The traditions come from the Royal Navy. Unfortunately the custom has not been much observed in the Navy for many years largely due to the infamous order of Navy Secretary Josephus Daniels imposing prohibition on the Fleet in March of 1913. Daniels was a puritanical Protestant who believed liquor was the devil's own brew and felt he had the right to tell everyone else to abide by his religious beliefs. He was also one of the prime movers in getting the 18th amnd passed. While the country at large shook off this foolishness and repealed prohibition the Navy has remained saddled with it ever since then.

[JoeSixPack1]

Staff NCO's have all the fun!

[opbuzz]

Dining In is often accompanied by spouses.

Mess Night is just Marines.

[jecIIny]

At shore facilities Dining In sometimes includes spouses. However on board ship it was strictly prohibited (even if in port). Some of the more traditional toasts were not appropriate for mixed company. However it is all but impossible in the present day to Dine In on board ship. The use of shore facilities for a Dining In is actually a deviation (though a necessary one) of the rules which were that the Chief's Mess , Wardroom, or the Captain of a given ship (in some cases flag officers) would host their guests in their dining place.

[Lurker]

You got a problem with Lance Corporals?

You probably brought ketchup to the dances...

L

[FreedomPoster]

>>At a Marine Corps Mess Night, British tradition can still be observed when the president of the mess tells the vice president of the mess that “It’s time to shed a tear for Lord Admiral Nelson.”

I have no problem whatsoever with our Marines honoring a British commander who kicked the French Navy's butt.

[SandRat]

Ahhhh,..... but you have to understand exactly what that really means; Go to the rest room and relieve the pressure in your bladder from all the beverages consumed.

[FreedomPoster]

LOL. Well, that works, too.

[JoeSixPack1]

You got a problem with Lance Corporals?

LOL!! Only when I was a PFC! :-)

[Lurker]

I know what you mean bro.

Nobody, and I mean nobody on this Earth was more suprised than me when I got to sew that badge on my sleeve. For about a month I was sure that someone had made a mistake and that I would have to give it back.

Semper Fi.

L

[tet68]

Blood of the NCOs bump.

Semper Fi Marines!

Tet.

[Starwolf]

Dining In is the equivalent of Mess Night, members of the mess only. Note that in the Acquisition community, this includes civilians.

Dining Out meant spouses/guests were welcome.

Been to both, Dining In is certainly more *adventurous*

[E.G.C.]

BTTT