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1 posted on 03/03/2006 5:31:19 AM PST by SJackson
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To: SJackson
Good post.

The "Bush Lied" argument is the most frustrating to me. Those who maintain it have an unshakable religious faith that it is true (or perhaps don't have a valid understanding of what "truth" is).

2 posted on 03/03/2006 5:40:38 AM PST by narby (Evolution is the new "third rail" in American politics)
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To: SJackson
No one is going to come out looking clean on the issue of WMDs.

The left id they exist because it blows a major part of there argument out of the water.

The President and the administration because they went in to neutralize the WMD threat. And it looks as if that failed.

Because if they exist where are they and more to the point who controls them, and do they control them all.

3 posted on 03/03/2006 5:40:59 AM PST by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: SJackson
I don’t know how the author could take the time to write that without referencing The Bomb in my Garden.
"Under the orders of Qusai Hussein, Dr. Obeidi had buried a huge barrel in his back garden. The barrel contained Iraq's crowning achievement in perverted physics: the components of an actual centrifuge for the enrichment of uranium. It also contained all the hard-won printed instructions and expertise on the subject. Dr. Obeidi was "interviewed" by many inspectors in the run-up to last year's war under the same conditions of open blackmail that Saddam had imposed on all his other scientists, and they got no nearer finding out the truth than one would have expected.

"His conclusion is that, given an improvement in the economic and political climate, Saddam could and would have done one of two things: reconstitute the program or share it with others. Had it not been for 9/11, it is sobering to reflect, there would have been senior members of even this administration arguing that sanctions on Iraq should be eased. And, through the open scandal of the oil-for-food program, there were many states or clienteles within states who were happy to help Saddam enrich himself. Moreover, within the "box" that supposedly "contained" him were also living Kim Jong-il, A.Q. Khan, and Col. Qaddafi. We know from the Kay report that, as late as March of last year, Saddam's envoys were meeting North Korea's team in Damascus and trying to buy missiles off the shelf. It would never have stopped: this ceaseless ambition to acquire the means of genocide. If anything, we underestimated that aspect of it.

"The supposed overestimate was, in reality, part of a wider underestimate. Libya and Iran turned out to be even more dangerous than we had thought, and the A.Q. Khan network of "Nukes 'R' Us" even more widespread. But now Iraq can be certified as disarmed, instead of wishfully assumed to be so, Libya's fissile materials are all under lock and key in Oak Ridge, Tenn., and the traces "walked back" from Qaddafi's capitulation helped expose A.Q. Khan. Of course, we could always have left Iraq alone, and brought nearer the day when the charming Qusai could have called for Dr. Obeidi and said: "That barrel of yours. It's time to dig it up."


4 posted on 03/03/2006 5:42:44 AM PST by elfman2
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To: SJackson
Frankly, I think this entire WMD issue is contrived.

The Left is just angry because Bush bypassed the UN.

Iraq was in constant violation of the treaty requirements.

It was Iraq's obligation to prove to us that he didn't have weapons in violation of that treaty, it was not our obligation to prove he did.

That is how the Germans got away with rearming after WW1.

5 posted on 03/03/2006 5:45:01 AM PST by fortheDeclaration (Gal. 4:16)
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To: SJackson

If only liberals had a brain they might understand this.


6 posted on 03/03/2006 5:46:40 AM PST by uptoolate
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To: SJackson
The Clinton administration had enough, and in December 1998 unleashed a flurry of cruise missiles at Iraqi sites.

Clinton's "flurry of cruise missiles" occurred during a four-day bombing campaign that coincided exactly with the House impeachment vote late December 1998.

The House Democrats, led by Dick Gebhardt, made a statment urging that the vote be postponed in the interest of showing "unity" for the American president while our troops were in harm's way.

A delay of two weeks would have kicked the vote into the next House session, when there would be more sitting Democrats, thereby improving Clinton's chance of beating the impeachment vote.

The Republicans, however, only delayed the vote for one day. As soon as it became clear that the vote would not be delayed as long as Clinton needed, the bombing of campaign of Baghdad was ended.

7 posted on 03/03/2006 5:47:06 AM PST by Maceman (Fake but accurate -- and now double-sourced)
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To: SJackson
I seem to remember the left crying "we can't go to war because he has WMDs". They asserted he would use them on our troops. Now they forget about the argument they made.
8 posted on 03/03/2006 5:48:20 AM PST by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
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To: SJackson
George W. Bush did not have unmistakable evidence of stockpiles of Iraqi WMD, but neither did the UN in 1991 nor Bill Clinton in 1998. Bush knew what they knew: Saddam had a rich history of manufacturing and using these weapons, and then lying about and hiding their existence.

Something the Anti-GWOT crowd so quickly forgets. Along with the fact that Bubba actually signed an Iraq Liberation Act(?) back in 1998/

9 posted on 03/03/2006 5:48:38 AM PST by ExcursionGuy84 ("Jesus, Your Love takes my breath away.")
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To: SJackson

Some folks are very impressed that "lied" rhymes with "died." So much so that they like to mindlessly repeat it over and over again like some autistic parrot.


10 posted on 03/03/2006 5:49:51 AM PST by Sax
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To: SJackson

Bookmarked


12 posted on 03/03/2006 5:57:07 AM PST by chaosagent (Remember, no matter how you slice it, forbidden fruit still tastes the sweetest!)
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To: SJackson
"I think you misrepresent what people mean when they say, ‘Bush lied,’" wrote the professor. "They are not generally making references to his beliefs, but they are making reference to the simple fact that he made claims for which he has no evidence…. And given the seriousness of the issue at hand (war), the bar was raised and the evidence had to be pretty damned good."

What was it that CIA Director George Tenet told the the President? Slam Dunk? Woodward: Tenet told Bush WMD case a 'slam dunk'

13 posted on 03/03/2006 6:02:09 AM PST by Echo Talon
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To: SJackson
" I noted that this charge (George W. Bush lied about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction) doesn’t make sense, even when granting it for the sake of argument, and that underlying the charge is an obsessive hatred of Bush that muddles the thinking of otherwise sensible people."


Otherwise sensible people?

Is that a little pandering, or is Mr. Kengor perpetuating yet another myth.

I find little, if anything, about Democrats that is sensible. No honesty. No proposals for anything positive. Nothing at all.






16 posted on 03/03/2006 6:08:58 AM PST by G.Mason (Duty, Honor, Country)
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To: SJackson
Thank you for posting this. I continue to be dismayed by the conduct of the news media and the liberal elected officials. (I recognize the redundancy in that sentence.) The absence of honest discourse and exchange seeking truth is frustrating.

It has taken me too long to realize that the modern Democrat Party has drawn its modus operandi from the communists. To them the truth has no value. All that matters is their ideology. As one of my liberal friends blurted one day, "I'm not seeking truth, I'm seeking advantage."

The modern Democrats have become the masters of the distorted "half-truth".

It frightens me to think that the Democrats are seen as a viable political party by the 48% that voted for John Kerry. How can you support a candidate and a political party that simply denies reality and rejects the value of truth?

17 posted on 03/03/2006 6:15:19 AM PST by Senator_Blutarski (No good deed goes unpunished.)
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bookmark


19 posted on 03/03/2006 6:30:01 AM PST by federal
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To: SJackson
The professor is too charitable to the "Bush-Lied-Kids-Died" crowd, whose line of reasoning is not so thoughtful. (I know this because I correspond with them daily.)

The kool aid left isn't interested in the truth, so one wonders why he spent so much time actually corresponding with what is not a serious search for truth but simply an ignorant mob akin to the torch wielding one from Frankenstein.

23 posted on 03/03/2006 6:49:27 AM PST by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: SJackson
"Bush lied" just rolls off the tongue so easy and by just yelling that, it saves the libs from actually thinking and using their pea brains. You get them into an argument about anything and their come back is "Bush lied".
28 posted on 03/03/2006 8:51:02 AM PST by fish hawk (Aloha ke Akua)
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To: SJackson

bump


31 posted on 03/03/2006 1:56:56 PM PST by Christian4Bush (I'd much rather hunt with Dick Cheney than ride with Ted Kennedy.)
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To: SJackson
When confronted on a public street by a thug in a dark trenchcoat, hand in pocket, and a menacing bulge plainly obvious, and the thug loudly proclaiming "I have a gun, give me your wallet or I will kill you", one is not required to prove with certainty that the bulge is indeed a gun before you can draw your own weapon and shoot the thug in defense of your own life.

The left would rather have you dead than find that the deceased thug only had a carrot in his pocket. If a leftist looney wants to sacrifice HIS life in such a manner go ahead, but ME--I'll shoot first and ask questions of any survivors later. Just like The President did after 9/11.

32 posted on 03/03/2006 2:06:04 PM PST by Auntie Dem (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Terrorist lovers gotta go!)
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To: SJackson
Ok....
YOU KNOW THIS, I KNOW THIS, but if it doesn't come in less than a paragraph, or is contained within the context of an easily shoutable 3-5 word slogan, it's beyond the attention span of the average American Liberal....

As evidence, I present this, from another message board, posted less than 3 minutes ago:
Re: BUSH IS F*CKING HITLER.
by: fosbach07 03/03/06 05:10 pm
Msg: 4348843 of 4348843

No explanation, no reasoning of WHY Bush is Hitler, just "Bush is F-In Hitler!!". And it's repeated, over, and over, and over again. No amount of PROOF helps, the same poster comes back day, after day, after day and repeats the same thing, no matter how many FACTS we present.
Then it is picked up and REPEATED by others of the same ilk....

We KNOW the facts support us, but they don't have the same gravitas as an easily shouted Lib slogan, and until we REALIZE this, we are just shouting to the breeze.......

"Bush is Selling OUR PORTS!" is like "They took our JERBS!!", but it carrys with it the same effects. It plants a seed in the minds of the unknowing....
33 posted on 03/03/2006 2:18:10 PM PST by tcrlaf
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Bump to find later


36 posted on 03/06/2006 4:21:30 AM PST by listenhillary ("Mainstream media" is creating it's own reality~everything sucks)
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