Second F-22 sqaudron operational in Langley,VA

Yahoo.com ^

[Tallguy]

I thought the contract was for 277 Raptors, not 107.

Could be the difference between the number of 'authorized' aircraft and those actually funded to date.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

I'd still like to see an objective fly off. The way things really work, the F-22 was guaranteed a win. It had to as it's the latest and greatest.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

Was killing time in a library going through plenty aircraft books ( Janes and others ) and noticed that almost no aircraft we have bought ever had the full authorization produced. One third to one half is about normal.

[michaelt]

Well if the Air Force had been thinking, they would have had the F-22 lose, thereby proving that they need more of them than what they're gonna get.

[Hill of Tara]

"183 is the number they are making initially. Then they have to go back to congress to ask for more. I really get sick of our politicians."

Yep, me too >:(

They need to get their heads out of their arses and realize how important having technologically advanced modern equipment is to winning wars. It's infuriating how stupid and shortsited a lot of these politicians are.

Some of them (RATS mostly) even wanted to kill the F/A-22 entirely. >:(

When was it reduced to 183 from 277?

[Hill of Tara]

Oh, now I see. That could be what the figure 107 refers to. Thanks.

[RunningWolf]

You are not going to ever see a situation where one Raptor is alone against 20 enemy aircraft, all of them fighters.

I can image one scenario where this situation could possibly play out.

And that would be a Chinese mass assault on Taiwan.

A huge wave with a little of everything they have from Mig21's (out of the bone yard lightly loaded with guns and ground attack rockets) to the lasted and greatest fighters they have. ECM aircraft, Blinders and BackFires coming in supersonic on the waters deck, surface to surface missile assault and so on.

Call me an idiot if you want, but say why too. You cant absolutely deny such a scenario can you?

Wolf

[RightWhale]

The fighter squads in Alaska are being phased out as the F-22s based in Washington come online. The F-22s can get to Alaska intercepts as quickly as having the present wings already in Alaska. Speed plus range plus vastly improved systems make that big a difference.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

No. Then Congress would say you don't need a new plane if the old ones work just fine. That's the way it works.

[Hill of Tara]

"It doesn't really work that way. You are not going to ever see a situation where one Raptor is alone against 20 enemy aircraft, all of them fighters. Typically you will see a 2-section or a 4-section. 4 Raptors would destroy 20 current enemy fighters with ease, but they would not get the chance."

I know such a situation is extremely unlikely. What I meant was that if we are faced by an AF with large numbers of modern aircraft, we need a significant number of Raptors to counter the threat. Otherwise, some military-hating politicians like Kerry would have the military buy 5 Raptors and say "that's enough"

"As soon as airplanes start blowing up, those remaining would run like hell from the area. We don't need 900 Raptors under any circumstances. 200-250 will be plenty. Air Combat is never a war of attrition."

I guess you're right. It would be pretty cool to have 900 Raptors in the AF though :)

If we only order 250 I guess the F-15s won't be replaced on a one-for-one basis.

"One F-22 took on FIVE F-15's driven by F-22 qualified pilots. The fight was over before the F-15's even knew he was there. That's very impressive stuff. F-22 may not be able to kill 20 enemy birds but after 4 or 5 most will turn and run. Of course the F-22 can outrun most stuff simply be fuel conservation. Mach 1 without the burners on is very cool $hit."

Yep, I heard about that. The F-15 pilot couldnt even detect the Raptor on radar, and only became aware of him when he had visual. The Raptor's an awesome plane :-) :-)

[RunningWolf]

//The F-22s can get to Alaska intercepts as quickly as having the present wings already in Alaska//

Now that is truly amazing.

Think of that against the century series aircraft.

Wolf

[Hill of Tara]

wouldnt that be nice. How 'bout we abolish welfare and buy 3,000 :-D

[freedumb2003]

My VERY personal take on aircraft beauty (and only beauty):

1. F-15 Eagle

2. F-14 Tomcat

3. F-22 Raptor

4. A-10 Warthog

5. F-16 Falcon

6. SR-71 Blackbird

7. F/A 18 Super Hornet

8. B1 Lancer

9. B-52 Superfortress

10. AC-130 Spectre/Striker

[Rokke]

I think that is a possible scenario, but in order for the Chinese to mass all that capability and prepare it for a strike they are going to have to telegraph their intentions for several days (we keep a pretty close watch on where they keep their toys). With that in mind, it is unlikely the F-22's will face that incoming wall alone. For starters, the Taiwanese Air Force is very capable. Their pilots are very motivated, well trained, and they have excellent equipment. Couple that with a carrier air wing or two and additional aircraft operating out of Japan and instead of F-22's standing alone against the world, you use your F-22's to target specific high value targets which will cripple that incoming Chinese hoard by severing its vital command and control networks. Then you have them pick off the most capable Chinese fighters, while our more conventional air assets concentrate on the less capable second generation Chinese fighters.

just my thoughts anyway...

[RightWhale]

That was all brought out during the base closure hearings here in Fairbanks last summer. It seems kind of amazing to me. Those new planes must be close to being Star Wars X-fighters.

[Rokke]

"The fighter squads in Alaska are being phased out as the F-22s based in Washington come online."

I don't believe this is correct. The F-22 will be based in Alaska, but not in Washington.

[null and void]

Yeah, and we really don't need Alaska, do we?...

[MARKUSPRIME]

Yeah our legacy craft can still kick ass with awacs and BVR missiles.The F-15 is still a beast. :)

[Pukin Dog]

You cant absolutely deny such a scenario can you?

Yes.

What, you think we don't watch China by satellite 24/7? Do you have any idea what it would take to stage such an attack? Long before they were ready to go, our subs would be parked in every major water way, ready to sink any ship that moved. Then the President calls China and asks if they really want to dance.

Come on.

[Hill of Tara]

"A huge wave with a little of everything they have from Mig21's (out of the bone yard lightly loaded with guns and ground attack rockets) to the lasted and greatest fighters they have. ECM aircraft, Blinders and BackFires coming in supersonic on the waters deck, surface to surface missile assault and so on.

Call me an idiot if you want, but say why too. You cant absolutely deny such a scenario can you?"

I could definitely see such a scenario. The Chinese have tons of aircraft. They have around 1,000 MiG-21s of various configurations, from the "Vanilla J-7" with only 2 hardpoints to the more capable MiG-21 variants like the regular J-7 and the J-8I/II.

Then they have 150 Su-30 MKK, about 200 Su-27s (plus around 160+ more being built) and maybe 100 J-10s, with more J-10s entering service each year. Apparently, the PLAAF has opted not to acquire the FC-1.

Then there are almost 1,500 MiG-19s (extremely old but in such huge numbers, formidable) and about 470 ancient planes used for training but still combat capable, mostly MiG-17s.

Finally there are 120 obsolete Tu-16 bombers.

That's 3,000 planes. Even if all our Raptors were on Taiwan they'd be outnumbered more than 16-1.

And thats not counting ones possibly destroyed by the Chinese missile strikes on Taiwan before the ChiCom AF arrives.