Rumsfeld: Leaving Iraq now is like handing Germany back to Nazis

Reuters via Haaretz ^ | 19/03/2006

[Hannah Senesh]

Leaving Iraq now would be like handing postwar Germany back to the Nazis, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in a column published on Sunday, the third anniversary of the start of the Iraq war.

"Turning our backs on postwar Iraq today would be the modern equivalent of handing postwar Germany back to the Nazis," he wrote in an essay in The Washington Post.

Rumsfeld said "the terrorists" were trying to fuel sectarian tensions to spark a civil war, but they must be "watching with fear" the progress in the country over the past three years.

In London, former Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said on Sunday that Iraq is in a civil war and is nearing the point of no return when the sectarian violence will spill over throughout the Middle East.

"It is unfortunate that we are in civil war. We are losing each day, as an average, 50 to 60 people throughout the country, if not more. If this is not civil war, then God knows what civil war is," he told BBC television.

Rumsfeld's view was that the Iraqi insurgency was failing. "The terrorists seem to recognize that they are losing in Iraq. I believe that history will show that to be the case," he wrote.

[spanalot]

A better comparison would be our failure to stop the Kremlin in the 20's.

This led to WWII and Korea and VietNam - We could have crushed the Russians in the 20's with few losses but we didn't and it cost us millions in lives and billions in dollars and lost opportunities.

[spanalot]

Great Post

[Terpfen]

I'm not understating the argument at all. Iraq is not a historically unique situation, the Baathists are not a historically unique political party. We're not discussing the nature of Islam, we're discussing a comparison made by the Secretary of Defense--one that is correct.

As far as waiting goes, I wouldn't classify what we're doing as waiting. We are training the Iraqi army, rooting out terrorists and their caches, and changing the geopolitical climate of the middle east. All of that requires a substantial amount of effort, not waiting.

[American in Singapore]

We cannot win a PC war, and you cannot win a war where your enemies are allowed safe harbour. But, more to the point, we cannot fight a faceless enemy; it is hard to prove intent until after the man has acted.

I have to respectfully disagree to a point... we are installing democratic institutions and frameworks in both Afghanistan and Iraq; these actions don't make the headline news, but it gives those peoples the chance to live in free societies instead of fear societies and eventually let them be in control of their own destiny.

Which is almost 180 degrees different than the mistake that "we" made in the Palestinian elections: the people had no semblance of any freedom with the PA controlling every facet of their existence, so of course the vote for Hamas was anything but free. It was a vote based on fear, and their fear was that they wanted anything but what their choice was before, Fatah.

[LibLieSlayer]

Rumsfeld was DEAD-ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LLS

[LibLieSlayer]

"If this is not civil war, then God knows what civil war is," he told BBC television."

Tell this punk-assed b!tch that a Civil War is more like 500,000 dead, 50,000 dead per major battle, and a generation disappears due to genocide! What a pant-load this puke is.

I'll go one better... if you are against the War in Iraq, you are a Traitor to every American that served, serves, died, or was wounded... and you are a Traitor to this Nation! I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH ENEMIES LIKE THAT... other than to KILL them all!

LLS

[hflynn]

I agree, but the simple fact is that if we can not win in Iraq

The simple fact is we can win in Iraq. The way we win in Iraq is to win in Iran and win in Syria.

[starbase]

Ah now I understand:

We're not discussing the nature of Islam

In my opinion, the nature of Islam is the root issue in all of this, and not just its nature, but the length of time it has been the sole cultural force in that area, but that's just my opinion and maybe it's not correct.

As far as waiting goes, I wouldn't classify what we're doing as waiting. We are training the Iraqi army, rooting out terrorists and their caches, and changing the geopolitical climate of the middle east. All of that requires a substantial amount of effort, not waiting.

Yes, that's a fair distinction. "Waiting" is not the right word, we're doing many things. But whether anything we do will "change the geopolitical climate of the middle east" is the big question. History implies the negative. But I do hope you are correct.

I personally don't think we can teach this old dog new tricks.

[Allegra]

The simple fact is we can win in Iraq.

We are winning in Iraq.

The media just won't tell you the truth.

[Allegra]

"It is unfortunate that we are in civil war. We are losing each day, as an average, 50 to 60 people throughout the country, if not more. If this is not civil war, then God knows what civil war is," he told BBC television.

Who peed in AllAwi's Wheaties this morning? And I usually respect what he has to say. He tendS to be very reasonable.

Here goes again:

THERE IS NO CIVIL WAR IN IRAQ.

[hflynn]

We are winning in Iraq.

Of course we are winning but it isn't a win until the game ends which I suspect will be much sooner than any of the media pundits realizes.

[Steel Wolf]

But a lack of will to be sufficiently brutal has kept us there much longer than needed. ... All in all, stupidity from the top, unworthy of our fine fighting men.

You are exactly right. By trying to fight the 'kindler and gentler' war, we allowed the problems to spiral out of control, and the problem has now dragged on for years because of it. Iraq should have been a closed deal by 2004, but we allowed bureaucrats, lawyers, and the media to turn a first rate victory into a third rate stalemate.

[Allegra]

Of course we are winning but it isn't a win until the game ends which I suspect will be much sooner than any of the media pundits realizes.

Late last year, I predicted that 2006 would be the year it becomes very difficult for the media to conceal the progress that is happening in Iraq.

I stand by that prediction.

[ARCADIA]

Democratic institutions are things that evolve over time. it is neither a piece of paper, nor a ballot box; but, a sense of respect for politicians who have developed a track record over time. The only thing that we have installed is some of the paraphenelia for democracy; real democracy is still many decades away, and can only build from the grass roots if we administer the affairs of the state to allow enough stability for it to take hold.

[Steel Wolf]

Late last year, I predicted that 2006 would be the year it becomes very difficult for the media to conceal the progress that is happening in Iraq.

I felt that way in early 2004, but as time and events wore on, I realized that we were mismanaging the whole deal badly, and that we were in for a long, ugly ride. I'm afraid that 2006 is far too optimistic an assesment. There will be bad news coming out of Iraq for the next few years, and what good news there is will be easily overlooked by the media.

[Steel Wolf]

The only thing that we have installed is some of the paraphenelia for democracy;

We haven't even really done that. What Iraq needed was a strong, Gen MacArthur-like figure to step in and force a new constitution down on them. Iraqi society needed to be reorganized in the same way that Japanese society was, and allowed to evolve from training-wheels democracy to the real thing.

Instead, we've left them to what could be a decades long effort at a point in history where we don't really have that kind of time. And they're trying to do it in a neighborhood that has a lot to gain by making them fail or corrupting the process.

[ARCADIA]

That pretty much sums it up for me.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.


NEVER FORGET



After we were fooled,

...thru Anti-Freedom voices we heard on our TV's,

...into leaving the then Free people of South Vietnam behind to their fate at the hands of heavily Soviet-backed godless Communist bullies from the North came...


Pictures of a vietnamese Re-Education Camp

http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1308949/posts




Signed:.."ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer
Veteran-1st Major Battles in the fight for Freedom of the Vietnam War 1965-66

(Pictures of another color)
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_set1.htm
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_collection.htm


NEVER FORGET

.

[Allegra]

I felt that way in early 2004, but as time and events wore on...

I first arrived in January '04 and didn't feel very optimistic then. And it got even bleaker (I'm sure you remember April '04) before it started getting better.

Having been here over two years now, I've seen great strides, mostly in the last year. I've seen them, but I don't ever hear the news talking about that.

I really feel that things are progressing well and in the right direction. There are setbacks like the shrine bombing and there will be setbacks to come. But I really see this whole situation getting better all the time.

We can agree to disagree. And thank you from the bottom of my heart for your service.

[Steel Wolf]

Having been here over two years now, I've seen great strides, mostly in the last year. I've seen them, but I don't ever hear the news talking about that.

I have no doubt whatsoever that we're eventually going to win. The good news does add up, regardless of whether or not the media reports it. The bad guys are beat, and don't have even the slightest chance of victory. They just won't stay down, and the power of their desperate attacks they make during their long, agonizing death is magnified and amplified by the press coverage.

I used to get so angry at the media that I wouldn't even watch the news, even Fox. Now, that I've been back in the leisurely comfort of my armchair for a while, and have cooled off, I find that my perspective has changed and matured some.

I expect the media to lie and distort, but we really should have been ready for that. I know that we're going to win in Iraq, as I'm sure you do, but we should have done it sooner, because we have more work ahead of us. We lose our global standing the longer we're mired in Iraq, and we need that standing for the work that still remains to be done.

Anyway, stay safe, and have fun working on your tan. Next time I'm in Baghdad, dinner's on me. ;-)