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The Killings Tell A Story (William Buckley Jr. is an idiot)
Yahoo ^ | April 4 2006 | William F. Buckley Jr.

Posted on 04/04/2006 3:27:12 PM PDT by jmc1969

The fatality figures in Iraq are perhaps telling a story, which would be that the war focuses progressively on internecine killings. The American death rate for March was 31 fatalities, a gruesome toll (one per day), yet the second lowest since the invasion was launched three years ago. Over approximately the same period, nearly 1,500 Iraqi civilians were killed, according to the American military, a significant increase over recent months.

One asks then: Is the furious resolve of the insurgents altering in focus? Has the enemy reckoned that the problem in hand is not Americans, who will be gone, roughly speaking, tomorrow, but Iraqis whose ethnic identities will remain the same when the grandchildren of both parties will be eyeing each other?

The rate of these killings reduces but is not concomitant with any reduction in U.S. strength. It is brought on by (a) the reduction in U.S. exposure, and (b) insurgent concentration on non-U.S. targets.

But ask then: Is this reduced exposure a part of the U.S. battle plan? We have not in recent months seen any hard U.S. assaults on hard Iraqi targets, in the class of Fallujah in the fall of 2004. Can we assume that such hard enemy nests aren't there, holding out? Or rather that the U.S. army command is less bent on smoking them out?

If there are (one speculates) 15 areas of Iraq in which the insurgents are embedded with special defensive ingenuity, the commanding general can elect to dispatch bombs and artillery, always with some care for collateral damage done to innocent civilians. But that approach, a platonic alternative to sending in a battalion with instructions to root out the offenders, means a diminished exposure of American soldiers to high-cost engagements.

To reason that this is happening is deductive: fewer casualties, fewer engagements. However, fewer engagements should presume an enemy diminished in size and potency. But to say that runs us into the corresponding figure, of 1,500 Iraqi civilian deaths. Somebody is killing those people, and the whole idea of the U.S. enterprise was to shield the Iraqi population not only from the depredations of Saddam Hussein, but also from successor killers. Manifestly this has not happened, if the killing proceeds at so high a rate.

I have myself concluded that our Iraqi mission has failed.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: buckley; iraq; williamfbuckley
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To: beckett
once we leave, backward looking Iraqis won't simply put a match to the constitution and push the country into chaos


Once we leave? I think backward looking Iraqis, like 57 percent of them, have already put the match to real freedom in Iraq and our White House let them do it.

Just look at the "NO LAW SHALL CONTRADICT ISLAM" clause in the Constitution we are paying and dying to prop up.

But there still is hope. The movement to get PM Jaffari (former Anti-American Sharia loving Terrorist) out, is very important. Then maybe the constitution will be redone in a more secular way.

As it stands now, we are fighting for Islam.
41 posted on 04/04/2006 4:30:50 PM PDT by TomasUSMC ((FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.))
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To: Reagan Man

There is no comparison between the casualties of WWII and Iraq, a fact Mr. Buckley well knows.


42 posted on 04/04/2006 4:31:14 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (I just love it when someone else takes revenge on my enemies and I don't have to lift a finger! : ))
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To: jmc1969
Do we have the collective intelligence and will to win this war on terror?

GWB is changing the world, and pundits --- busy sitting around sipping Chardonnay and smoking cigars --- conclude the effort is a failure because it's lasted longer than an average sitcom.

I am so very weary of the shortsightedness of our chattering class. I really wish they'd find another hobby.
43 posted on 04/04/2006 4:31:36 PM PDT by Right_in_Virginia
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To: beckett; All

Did the Revolutionary War lasted to long for you?


44 posted on 04/04/2006 4:31:45 PM PDT by KevinDavis (http://www.cafepress.com/spacefuture)
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To: jmc1969; All

"The American casualties for March [in Iraq] was 31."

This amounts to one per day. My son who currently is serving in Afghanistan says we (American military) are now loosing about 3 or 4 a week in Afghanistan. He doesn't think this is being reported in the US, and as a mother who pays attention to these things, I haven't noticed it being reported either.

Some of you may have read the thread I posted titled "Front Line Views on Iraq/Afghanistan War Situation" on 3/12/06. I now have enough useful communications to post a Front Line Views #2, which I plan to do this Thursday night or Friday day.


45 posted on 04/04/2006 4:32:00 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: jmc1969

Yeah, you're smarter than Buckley.

With all due respect to you, WFB's poop has more credibility, whether you like it or not.

Of course this is just my opinion, I'm sure you'll not like it from me either.


46 posted on 04/04/2006 4:35:05 PM PDT by WhiteGuy ("Every Generation needs a new revolution" - Jefferson)
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To: beckett
Unlike Buckley, I haven't totally given up on this effort --- yet. But, if I ever did, I no longer try to persuade myself that the war, and all that's come with it, is truly in the best interests of the United States.

Mr. Buckley is talking foolishness. Plain and simple. We are in a war, a world war....people are going to die. That doesn't show success or lack of success because of such.

Furthermore in this world war with terrorism our one true ally will be the values of freedom and self-worth. To suggest either of those are not in the interest of the United States is completely wrong.

one can't drive from Baghdad to the airport without an armed guard.

Bullsh*t! - millions of of Iraqi's move around freely throughout Iraq each day sans ANY armed guards next to them. That some Iraqi's are being killed for a variety of reasons outside of this war itself, does not reflect whatsoever on the amazing success of which our forces have helped to create within Iraq since 2003.

Nor do those Iraqi's that are being killed because of this war/ and our efforts amount to any sensible criteria that we are losing. These Iraqi's are dying to build a new Iraq...a war very much worth fighting for.

That Americans don't move/travel throughout sections of Iraq without being armed simply reinforces the reality that we are at war with an enemy that wants to kill us. Nothing more...nothing less.

Plenty like Mr. Buckley from thousands of miles away want to try and tell others of what is happening on the ground within Iraq...when they simply have no clue to what is actually going on, especially so in the bigger picture...which is usually very hard to see from a far (a fact that a man of Mr. Buckley's intellect should be well aware of).

Regards,

47 posted on 04/04/2006 4:36:24 PM PDT by SevenMinusOne
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To: pissant
Oh, for the love of God.

Before Iraq, he was the "Great William F. Buckley," a sort of demigod around here.

Now, because he dares disagree with the party line about Iraq, he's ostracized as an "idiot"? Heck no. He was an intellectual conservative when they simply didn't exist. He deserves more respect than he's been shown on this board. You may not agree with him, but he's not "lost his marbles." At least have the intellectual honesty to admit that reasonable minds can differ about whether Iraq is working or not.

48 posted on 04/04/2006 4:36:29 PM PDT by jude24 ("The Church is a harlot, but she is my mother." - St. Augustine)
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To: ansel12

"I think I can survive one disagreement with such a figure every few decades."

Exactly. The dumb klucks on this thread are too much to bear. They simply don't understand much. They're the kind of folks who think political activism consists of spamming your friends with pics of bald eagles, American flags, and silhouettes of President Bush praying.


49 posted on 04/04/2006 4:37:28 PM PDT by California Patriot ("That's not Charlie the Tuna out there. It's Jaws.")
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To: TAdams8591
>>>>There is no comparison between the casualties of WWII and Iraq, a fact Mr. Buckley well knows.

I wasn't comparing the casualties of WWII with the casualties in Iraq. I was comparing a one month battle of WWII that took 7,000 US military lives, with the 31 killed in Iraq during the month of March 2006. The former is a gruesome event, the latter is not.

50 posted on 04/04/2006 4:38:43 PM PDT by Reagan Man (Secure our borders;punish employers who hire illegals;stop all welfare to illegals)
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To: kellynla

I'm wish you on Iraq, just not on Buckley.


51 posted on 04/04/2006 4:39:07 PM PDT by California Patriot ("That's not Charlie the Tuna out there. It's Jaws.")
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To: kellynla

Uh, I mean "with you on Iraq."


52 posted on 04/04/2006 4:39:25 PM PDT by California Patriot ("That's not Charlie the Tuna out there. It's Jaws.")
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To: jude24; pissant
At least have the intellectual honesty to admit that reasonable minds can differ about whether Iraq is working or not.

Screaming about "intellectual honesty" is the liberal way of saying "I've lost the argument, but I'm going to try to make you look like a closed-minded twit". Iraq is going just fine. We are going to see this thing through.
53 posted on 04/04/2006 4:39:32 PM PDT by MikefromOhio (FREE PAUL_DENTON!!!!!)
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To: jmc1969
Some perspective:

The number of military deaths during peacetime (1980-1999) was 32,349. Of these, 563 were classified as hostile. So that's 32,349 non-hostile deaths over twenty years. It's an average of 1617 per year.

The total number of US Military deaths in Operation Iraqi Freedom (March 19, 2003 to present) is 2247 (over a three year period) That averages to 749 per year. Less than half the peacetime rate. Also, of those 2247, only 1758 are classified as hostile.

54 posted on 04/04/2006 4:40:10 PM PDT by pjd
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To: WhiteGuy

Dude, Buckley isn't even paying enough situation to know about our great operation in Tal Afar, operation Swarmer, and several dozen smaller operations that you can read about if you go to Bill Roggio's site. According to him there hasn't been operations in months (that he has heard of) so we must be getting more casulties because we are sitting back in our bases and not on the offensive.

And, he doesn't even know that most of the Iraqis deaths aren't insurgents killing Iraqis. Most are from crime and militias.

So, yes when it comes to Iraq I know one hell of alot more the Buckley. I would make a bet that he couldn't name three Iraqi political leaders.


55 posted on 04/04/2006 4:40:46 PM PDT by jmc1969
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To: gleeaikin
My son who currently is serving in Afghanistan says we (American military) are now loosing about 3 or 4 a week in Afghanistan. He doesn't think this is being reported in the US, and as a mother who pays attention to these things, I haven't noticed it being reported either.

With all due respect, your son is wrong. We are not losing 3 or 4 U.S. soldiers a week in Stan - This is simply not the case (nor, if we were, would that reflect anything in particular...in that if this WOT is worth it to fight, we have to fight it).

56 posted on 04/04/2006 4:40:53 PM PDT by SevenMinusOne
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To: jmc1969

Bah, I meant to say less casulties.


57 posted on 04/04/2006 4:42:06 PM PDT by jmc1969
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To: jmc1969

Buckley joined the army in 1944 and was commissioned a 2nd Lt.


58 posted on 04/04/2006 4:43:30 PM PDT by Old Seadog (Inside every old person is a young person saying "WTF happened?".)
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To: kellynla

Less that 2000 KIA's.......1839 to be exact!!


59 posted on 04/04/2006 4:43:41 PM PDT by PISANO (We will not tire......We will not falter.......We will NOT FAIL!!! .........GW Bush [Oct 2001])
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To: MikefromOhio
Screaming about "intellectual honesty" is the liberal way of saying "I've lost the argument, but I'm going to try to make you look like a closed-minded twit".

Then the conservative intellectual movement is dead, and its now a reactionary movement.

60 posted on 04/04/2006 4:44:19 PM PDT by jude24 ("The Church is a harlot, but she is my mother." - St. Augustine)
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