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For President, First a Leak; Now, a Jam
NYT Via The Oregonian ^ | 4/8/06 | Scott Shane

Posted on 04/08/2006 8:42:11 AM PDT by Carling

WASHINGTON, April 7 — That President Bush authorized an aide to disclose classified intelligence on Iraqi weapons, as asserted in court papers, comes as no shock to official Washington. The leaking of secrets has long been a favored tool of policy debate, political combat and diplomatic one-upmanship.

"We've had leaking of this kind since the administration of George Washington," said Rick Shenkman, a presidential historian at George Mason University.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bullzogby; bush43; bushhassers; bushhaters; cialeak; declassification; dnctalkingpoints; drivebymedia; getbush; goebbelswouldbeproud; leak; libby; lyingliars; makingitup; mediabias; newyorktimes; nytimes; nytimesbias; prewarintelligence; propaganda; saddamites; thebiglie; zogbyism
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President Bush needs to get out on this immediately and explain the difference between declassifying documents and having subordinates leak still-classified docs. This is a pre-emptive strike by the MSM to diminish the public's reaction to real leaks that actually harm national security. The worst part of this? Fitzgerald CLEARLY wrote this Libby admission in such a way for this to be the desired result. He must be taken out of his position immediately.
1 posted on 04/08/2006 8:42:17 AM PDT by Carling
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To: Carling

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/ftp/Saturday-A1.pdf

Here is the front page image I woke up to today.


2 posted on 04/08/2006 8:43:58 AM PDT by Carling (Mocking liberal claptrap since July 1, 2004)
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To: Carling

A leak is an unauthorized release of information. If the Pres authorized it, IT AIN'T A LEAK.


3 posted on 04/08/2006 8:44:14 AM PDT by ez ("Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." - Milton)
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To: ez

A leak is an unauthorized release of information. If the Pres authorized it, IT AIN'T A LEAK.
------
In this case, a "leak" relates to CLASSIFIED information. It has not been clarified as to whether the information was still classified when the leak happened or not. Declassification does have to take place BEFORE information can be released. I listened to a reporter hit McClellan with this exact question, and he was stumbling all over himself trying not to answer the question. I am afraid that Bush and buddies may have been caught on this one -- they sure are avoiding a plausible explanation to date...we continue to await their response.


4 posted on 04/08/2006 8:48:08 AM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: ez
Which is why Bush needs to lash out at the media on this IMMEDIATELY.

The unwashed masses don't know this, and the Oregonian's front page today is so misleading that I was spitting mad when I saw it.

The only good thing is this will finally get me to cancel my subscription. I'll have to get the baseball boxscores off of the internet from now on.
5 posted on 04/08/2006 8:48:10 AM PDT by Carling (Mocking liberal claptrap since July 1, 2004)
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To: EagleUSA

Classified information is classified on the President's authority. Either the President or Vice can declassify anything at any time.

Therefor, it follows that neither can leak classified information, since by leaking it they automatically declassify it.


6 posted on 04/08/2006 8:51:29 AM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: EagleUSA
It has not been clarified as to whether the information was still classified when the leak happened or not. Declassification does have to take place BEFORE information can be released.

Not true. The President can declassify ANYTHING on his word alone. Also, one of our own FReepers, ravingnutter, has shown that this document was declassified in October of 2002, a full eight months before this supposed "leak."

I am afraid that Bush and buddies may have been caught on this one -- they sure are avoiding a plausible explanation to date...we continue to await their response.

I'm afraid that you're dead wrong, and you have your explanation.

7 posted on 04/08/2006 8:53:26 AM PDT by sinkspur (Things are about to happen that will answer all your questions and solve all your problems.)
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To: sinkspur
" Bush and buddies "

Why does this phrase which was made popular at DU keep appearing on FR these days?

8 posted on 04/08/2006 8:56:16 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Carling

Why? Every single talking head, radio talk show host and columnist on the Conservative side is finally remembering which side they are suppose to be on and making this point over and over. Ah but that right, it not about the facts, it about finding the next thing to squeal at Bush about.


9 posted on 04/08/2006 8:56:18 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: ez

some problems exist from the top on down..my own take is...Cheney
has his prints all over this..the man can be awfully
vindictive..causing these type of mistakes, the press just
salivates like hell..and it has an effect on the total
credibility of everyone ....up and down...I, for one, am
disappointed...Jake


10 posted on 04/08/2006 8:57:21 AM PDT by sanjacjake
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To: EagleUSA

Which it did. Guess the DNC Talking Point you are reading failed to point that little fact out to you hmm Howie Dean's mouthpiece?


11 posted on 04/08/2006 8:57:36 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: sanjacjake
...I, for one, am disappointed...Jake

No, you are just ignorant.

12 posted on 04/08/2006 8:58:27 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Saddam and Son's defense team on board!


13 posted on 04/08/2006 8:59:08 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: EagleUSA
Lrt's make this simple.

Proof that this was classified when it was leaked with proof that the President leaked it ... impeach and give Cheney a shot.

The administration has no obligation to give the "reporters" anything, including the time of day.

The Dims and the enabling alphabet media are in quicksand. Let them struggle and go under on their own.

Merry Fitzmas!




14 posted on 04/08/2006 9:01:29 AM PDT by G.Mason (Others have died for my freedom; now this is my mark ... Marine Corporal Jeffrey Starr, KIA 04-30-05)
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To: MNJohnnie
The majority of the people don't listen to the alternative media. Bush needs to have a presser and get this information out IMMEDIATELY. Half the country thinks the guy is illegally leaking intel, and the liars in the MSM are willing to set this template and perpetuate it.
15 posted on 04/08/2006 9:01:43 AM PDT by Carling (Mocking liberal claptrap since July 1, 2004)
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To: sanjacjake
Cheney has his prints all over this

Other than slimy inneundo...can you articulate what Dick Cheney did wrong?

16 posted on 04/08/2006 9:01:46 AM PDT by Siena Dreaming
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To: Carling
President Bush needs to get out on this issue, and every other issue as well, as often as he can. Otherwise, he lets the media and Democrats define his image. The President only seems to worry about his image toward the end of election campaigns. He needs to treat every day the same way.

And he needs to veto spending bills.

And he needs to control the border.

And ...

17 posted on 04/08/2006 9:01:59 AM PDT by Bernard (History repeats itself because people don't change.)
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To: Carling
Just ANOTHER slap at President Bush, we were having 1 a week, then it went to 3 a week, then 1 a day and now 3 or more a day....

Just the DemoRATS crying wolf...like Rush always says: "Everytime the Democrats do or say anything, it always comes back to bite them in the rear"

They just can't be content not being in charge, but if the pubbies don't get off dead center, they WILL be in charge....

I have just written my 2 senators, specter and santorum and frist, to let them know how upset I am over them taking another 16 day vacation....no immigration bill, no tax bill, no nothing....just alot of hot air....maybe WE should take over while they are out of Washington and do the work ourselves.....
18 posted on 04/08/2006 9:02:38 AM PDT by HarleyLady27 (My ? to libs: "Do they ever shut up on your planet?" "Grow your own DOPE: Plant a LIB!")
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To: sanjacjake
Then you should have been mad when Colin Powell "leaked" Key Judgements of the NIE to the UN in February 2003. Of course, it had been declassified since October 2002, but what the hell, let's let hysteria rule the day!
19 posted on 04/08/2006 9:03:52 AM PDT by Carling (Mocking liberal claptrap since July 1, 2004)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican; MNJohnnie; EagleUSA
"Eagle USA" is another of those "2004" signups who is likely a Democrat troll.

Watch those 2004 signups.

20 posted on 04/08/2006 9:05:12 AM PDT by sinkspur (Things are about to happen that will answer all your questions and solve all your problems.)
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To: HarleyLady27

I realize this is just another drive-by hit by the Dems/MSM, but this one matters because the end result is to make REAL leaking acceptable.

This one matters a lot.


21 posted on 04/08/2006 9:05:46 AM PDT by Carling (Mocking liberal claptrap since July 1, 2004)
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To: Carling
MORE FAKE NEWS FROM A LYING MEDIA - NO NEED FOR THE PRESIDENT TO RESPOND TO THESE LIARS - ANOTHER FAKE POLL WILL FOLLOW THE FAKE NEWS

22 posted on 04/08/2006 9:07:05 AM PDT by new yorker 77 (FAKE POLLS DO NOT TRANSLATE INTO REAL VOTERS!)
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To: new yorker 77

I disagree. Now is exactly the time to call out the media for their lies. Many of us already know the media is bogus, but the time is now to have those in power start to expedite the already-crumbling facade of the media's credibility.

Personally, I would have booted CBS from the White House after RatherGate. This should have been addressed years ago.


23 posted on 04/08/2006 9:10:16 AM PDT by Carling (Mocking liberal claptrap since July 1, 2004)
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To: Carling
The unwashed masses don't know this, and the Oregonian's front page today is so misleading that I was spitting mad when I saw it.

What did it say?

24 posted on 04/08/2006 9:11:42 AM PDT by huck von finn
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To: MNJohnnie

You are a Complete one....like the ignoramus you
project as the type that makes mistakes ,seem real for
their own satisfaction...legal, smegal, there is a price
to pay....and it looks like the voters are just so
ignorant that they will sit at home in November...
Stick that in yur old...mastacamarana. Jake


25 posted on 04/08/2006 9:12:18 AM PDT by sanjacjake
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To: Carling

AND isn't that what I said?????????

Everything that happens to President Bush is IMPORTANT to get his work done.....


26 posted on 04/08/2006 9:12:22 AM PDT by HarleyLady27 (My ? to libs: "Do they ever shut up on your planet?" "Grow your own DOPE: Plant a LIB!")
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To: sanjacjake
That right, Reality doesn't matter. Only what YOU feel matter. Sorry the rest of us live in the real world, not deluded fringe land.
27 posted on 04/08/2006 9:13:29 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: huck von finn

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1611531/posts?page=2#2

Click on the PDF file I posted.


28 posted on 04/08/2006 9:13:53 AM PDT by Carling (Mocking liberal claptrap since July 1, 2004)
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To: Carling

Nope. The top 5 Radio talk show hosts reach more people then the Nightly news. Your "Facts" are about 10 years out of date.


29 posted on 04/08/2006 9:14:42 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: EagleUSA

The President declassified the information, as it is his right to do so; there was no leak; there was a disclosure of information as authorized by the President.


30 posted on 04/08/2006 9:15:09 AM PDT by Laverne
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To: sinkspur

"Eagle USA" is another of those "2004" signups who is likely a Democrat troll.
-----
Nice try Spur but far from it. When it comes to a little objectivity, you lose. The only point being made here is that there is no evidence that a declassification process was conducted, which by the way to serve your ignorance, is required to declassify documents and information, was conducted prior to release of information. There is a process that can take various paths depending on who the declassifying requestor is and the nature of the information.

So take your mindless criticism and name calling somewhere else. The question I asked was a fair question -- which Bush Bots do not want to hear an answer to. And the LAST thing I am is a Dem troll -- just someone looking for a fair answer to fair question.


31 posted on 04/08/2006 9:16:54 AM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: sinkspur
Yep. All thru 2004 he was a complete DNC mouthpiece. Then pretty much vanished after Nov 2004. Must be a Election Year, all Howie Dean's "Virtual Campaigners" are ozzing back out of the gutter again.
32 posted on 04/08/2006 9:16:59 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: Carling
You can't respond to every FAKE utterance of these morons only to be buttressed by a FAKE POLL.

I am not reacting to the FAKE NEWS or the FAKE POLLS every time it happens. It is non-stop and easily exposed.

BUSH WINS! That's real. All the FAKE NEWS and FAKE POLLS could not stop that.

Now I am speaking generally and not directly toward you.

1) Conservatives should avoid being the puppets of the fakery by the MSM.

2) My message to all Conservatives. Do not be a tool of the left by falling for FAKE NEWS or FAKE POLLS.
33 posted on 04/08/2006 9:17:35 AM PDT by new yorker 77 (FAKE POLLS DO NOT TRANSLATE INTO REAL VOTERS!)
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To: Carling
Bush will not fight back. I am beginning to lose faith in Bush. He is a door mat. Plus, he called Fitzgerald "dignified". I don't think he'll change his PR strategy until he wakes up the day after election with a Democratic Congress.

The thing is, Americans hate the press. He wouldn't have much of a fight to show the Americans that the US media has been Kosified, juvenile, partisan, nasty.

On CNN they were giggling in glee over Bush's poll numbers and latest problems on the "leak". If Bush were tougher, he'd relish wiping that grin off their collective elitist face.
34 posted on 04/08/2006 9:18:46 AM PDT by Patriot from Philly
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To: Carling

Bush is getting bad advice, he should have admitted his culpability / responsibility in this at the on set. How much has this cost us tax payers so far?


35 posted on 04/08/2006 9:18:56 AM PDT by drypowder
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
" Bush and buddies " Why does this phrase which was made popular at DU keep appearing on FR these days?

Because DUers hang out here and post all the time trying to start dissent?

36 posted on 04/08/2006 9:19:47 AM PDT by calex59
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To: EagleUSA
And the LAST thing I am is a Dem troll

Upon reviewing your posting history, I simply do not believe you.

What's more, you're dumb. How many times do you have to be told that the President can declassify any document he chooses whenever he chooses just by releasing the document?

There is no "declassification process" when the President chooses to declassify. It just happens.

37 posted on 04/08/2006 9:21:26 AM PDT by sinkspur (Things are about to happen that will answer all your questions and solve all your problems.)
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To: Carling

Fitzgerald is an opportunist clear and simple. If this so-called CIA agent was compromised, lets have an indictment. Trapping someone by clever interrogation by the FBI is a joke.


38 posted on 04/08/2006 9:21:41 AM PDT by hgro
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To: sanjacjake

mastacamarana


Is that what you are smoking? Your logic must be impaired by something.


39 posted on 04/08/2006 9:22:26 AM PDT by sgtyork (May it ever be so, that our government is not afraid to trust the people with arms)
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To: hgro

Even worse is filing court briefs with language that allows for partisan games to be played.

Fitz is a hack who is desperately trying to keep his job. Once this gig is up, he is unemployed I believe.


40 posted on 04/08/2006 9:25:25 AM PDT by Carling (Mocking liberal claptrap since July 1, 2004)
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To: drypowder; MNJohnnie
Bush is getting bad advice, he should have admitted his culpability / responsibility in this at the on set. How much has this cost us tax payers so far?

Here's another one.

The cockroaches are all over the place today.

41 posted on 04/08/2006 9:25:47 AM PDT by sinkspur (Things are about to happen that will answer all your questions and solve all your problems.)
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To: hgro

I agree wholeheartedly. Fitzy knows who leaked Plame's name, speculation is it was Armitage, but Fitzy is protecting him, and refers to him as UGO (unidentified Government Official). He knew it as early as February 04...Fitzy bought Wilson's story hook, line and sinker, and has gone beyond his mandate to determine who leaked her name, into investigating a conspiracy against old liar Joey. He has several errors of fact in his filings to the courts, one specifically that comes to mind, is that Fitzy claims that the first time Wilson went public is in the NYTimes article in June; when in fact, Wilson went public prior to that. I look forward to seeing the next filing by Team Libby, which I think will be next week. Also, media responses to their subpoena's are due next week as well.


42 posted on 04/08/2006 9:27:03 AM PDT by Laverne
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To: sinkspur; EagleUSA
There is no "declassification process" when the President chooses to declassify.

I am shocked you believe this. Of course the president is subject and at the mercy of a bunch of bureaucrat's with big red "classified" and "not classified" stamps. He must submit in triplicate a notarized request, a copy of his Mother's birth certificate, a 500 word essay on why he wanted to be president a processing fee of $5.00 and include a self addressed envelope.

Please allow 208 weeks for processing.

43 posted on 04/08/2006 9:27:53 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: drypowder
Ah that right. Just ignore reality cause your political indoctrination doesn't agree with it. Really sad.
44 posted on 04/08/2006 9:29:18 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: EagleUSA

And exactly WHO requires the declassification process????


The Commander in Chief.



This is a good explanation of this.


http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/62024.htm


DUBYA CAN'T LEAK





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April 7, 2006 -- AND INFO WAS ALREADY PUBLIC
IT'S amazing how the common topics and subjects of discussion three years ago should vanish so quickly from memory.
Yesterday, breathless news reports suggested that President Bush had directed the "leak" of classified information in July 2003. Yet the "leak" in question was from a document called the National Intelligence Estimate, or NIE - and by the time this "leak" occurred, the contents of the NIE as they related to Iraq were almost entirely public.

On Oct. 7, 2002, nine months before Bush's supposed "leak," the administration released an unclassified version of the very same NIE at the urging of Senate Democrats. And in early 2003, reporters hostile to the administration (primarily John Judis and Spencer Ackerman of The New Republic) were being told all sorts of things about the still-classified portions of the NIE.

And this "leak" wasn't a leak in any case. A "leak" is the unauthorized release of government information. The leak of classified information is a crime. But according to Scooter Libby, the former chief of staff to the vice president who gave the information from the NIE to a reporter, he only released it because he was authorized to do so by the president himself.



Constitutionally, the authority to declare documents "classified" resides with the president. So, under the terms of an executive order first drafted in 1982, he can declassify a document merely by declaring it unclassified.

The language of the executive order reads as follows: "Information shall be declassified or downgraded by the official who authorized the original classification, if that official is still serving in the same position . . . [or] a supervisory official." In the executive branch, the president is the ultimate "supervisory official."

We have found out about the president's decision to declassify information from the 2002 NIE because the special prosecutor who has charged Libby with perjury and obstruction of justice revealed elements of Libby's grand-jury testimony in new court papers.


45 posted on 04/08/2006 9:29:48 AM PDT by sgtyork (May it ever be so, that our government is not afraid to trust the people with arms)
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To: EagleUSA
It has not been clarified as to whether the information was still classified when the leak happened or not.

It is a technicality to argue whether the info was "already" declassified or not, since the Pres has the power to declassify. I suppose you will argue that Bush is a cowboy, unilaterally declassifying information at will?

46 posted on 04/08/2006 9:30:28 AM PDT by ez ("Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." - Milton)
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To: Carling
The majority of the people don't listen to the alternative media. Bush needs to have a presser and get this information out IMMEDIATELY. Half the country thinks the guy is illegally leaking intel, and the liars in the MSM are willing to set this template and perpetuate it.

GOP party hacks such as MNJohnnie are incapable of seeing the bigger picture. Although Bush is in the right on this, the way he and his flunkies on the WH press staff handles the MSM is beyond horrible.

47 posted on 04/08/2006 9:30:59 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (A nickel bag is sold in Central Park. I WANT IN!)
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To: Carling
He must be taken out of his position immediately

Yeah, 'cause Patrick Fitzgerald is basically a modern-day, American GUY FAWKES doing everyhting possible to stretch the law & his authority to destroy our current administration.

48 posted on 04/08/2006 9:31:03 AM PDT by ExcursionGuy84 ("Jesus, Your Love takes my breath away.")
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To: MNJohnnie

HEY YOU GOT MAIL!

VERY IMPORTANT!!


49 posted on 04/08/2006 9:32:52 AM PDT by eeevil conservative (I'm not racist- I'm an Equal Opportunity Enemy of ALL LAWBREAKING, TAX DODGING, FENCE CLIMBERS!)
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To: sanjacjake

I have no problem with the President releasing whatever information he deems appropriate to combat our INTERNAL enemies in the MSM as they wage a propaganda war against the duly elected administration.


50 posted on 04/08/2006 9:32:54 AM PDT by ez ("Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." - Milton)
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