Proposed smoking ban in bars, restaurants snuffed out in Michigan

United Pro Smoker's Newsletter ^ | 4/10/2006

[SheLion]

LANSING, Mich. Legislation to ban smoking in Michigan's bars and restaurants is stalled in the state Legislature -- six years after it was first introduced.

Health groups and other supporters of the ban say secondhand smoke is a health risk, especially for pregnant women, asthmatics and restaurant workers.

But so far, Republicans who control the Legislature agree with restaurants and bars that argue they should be free to decide whether to allow smoking without intrusion from government.

New York City, Chicago, Dallas and 15 states have approved smoking bans in restaurants; fewer have restricted it in bars.

[SheLion]

Health groups and other supporters of the ban say secondhand smoke is a health risk, especially for pregnant women, asthmatics and restaurant workers.

There is NO documented proof that second hand smoke is harmful to anyone.  An annoyance, maybe, but not the killer the lying anti's want everyone to believe!

The World Health Organization actually did a study on secondhand smoke which showed that it doesn't even make people sick, much less kill them. It makes some people uncomfortable, and they don't like it. But it does not kill!!!I

[SheLion]

Oak Ridge Labs, TN & SECOND HAND SMOKE 

Statistics and Data Sciences Group Projects

I think any anti who tries to dismiss the findings of the U.S. Department of Energy labs at Oak Ridge, should be confronted with the question: "Are you saying that DOE researchers committed scientific fraud and that their findings on ETS exposure are untrue?"

But where does this Taliban-like anti-smoking campaign come from? It can't really be this stuff about second-hand smoke. The famous 1992 Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) study showing a causal relationship between second-hand smoke and cancer was so roundly debunked as junk science (even by other federal agencies) it was finally declared "null and void" by a federal judge. Sure, second-hand smoke can be annoying, and it can't be healthy, but if you relegate smokers to their own enclosed space _ say a bar or a separate part of a restaurant where people, including staff, only go of their own free will _ who can object?

[NRA1995]

[CSM]

I don't expect them to hold out much longer.

[SheLion]

I don't expect them to hold out much longer.

Which side, CSM?

[Redbob]

This reminds of the health/rehabilitation clinic I walked past yesterday at lunch - where the workers were standing around outside in their nurse uniforms, smoking!
What irony...

[SheLion]

This reminds of the health/rehabilitation clinic I walked past yesterday at lunch - where the workers were standing around outside in their nurse uniforms, smoking!
What irony...

Yep. Well, the anti's are pushing smokers outside, then you have non-smokers that don't want to walk through the cigarette smoke and they don't want to SEE smokers.  Smokers had their lounges inside, out of the way and the fray and sight, and all were happy.  Now, smokers outside are miserable and non-smokers are miserable having to walk through a group of smokers.  They should have let well enough alone.

[CSM]

The pro-private property rights side. I'll keep fighting, but soon the socialists will win.

[absolootezer0]

restaurant and bar owners have and will keep fighting this. altho the vast majority of owners (at least in the lansing area) are non-smokers, they know that a significant portion of their clientelle are smokers, or are people that will tolerate smoke, and they will not risk this business.

[Madame Dufarge]

But so far, Republicans who control the Legislature agree with restaurants and bars that argue they should be free to decide whether to allow smoking without intrusion from government.

So far.......

[SheLion]

The pro-private property rights side. I'll keep fighting, but soon the socialists will win.

Huh?  We are all pro (for) private property rights, correct?  If we lose private property rights, we would be nuts to buy property in the future.  The government will just run our property anyway.

For instance:  imminent domain, which REALLY makes me sick!

[SheLion]

restaurant and bar owners have and will keep fighting this. altho the vast majority of owners (at least in the lansing area) are non-smokers, they know that a significant portion of their clientelle are smokers, or are people that will tolerate smoke, and they will not risk this business.

Exactly!  And the states that are late in trying the smoking bans are learning a good lesson about what happened to businesses in Maine and California and New York that have forced smoking bans.  It's not a pretty picture.

Even if only 25-30% of your patrons smoke, and you lose 25-30% of your revenue with a smoking ban, that loss has GOT to hurt.

And people do not realize the trickle down effect:  if a business cuts back or closes, the vendors that supply that business also suffer.  The smoking bans are a no-win situation.  The businesses with the big smoke eaters and smoking and non-smoking sections have always been the way to go.

[SheLion]

So far.......

Yes, I know.  Until some RINO lawmakers gets them behind closed doors.  ugh!!!!

[CSM]

I know we are, but the RINOs in MI are getting a lot of pressure from the socialists. And we all know RINOs aren't too good at handling pressure. They will cave sooner or later. I just hope it is later and I will be on my way out across the MI border.

[SheLion]

I know we are, but the RINOs in MI are getting a lot of pressure from the socialists. And we all know RINOs aren't too good at handling pressure. They will cave sooner or later. I just hope it is later and I will be on my way out across the MI border.

Well, I sure don't know where it will all end.  The anti smokers are like a disease on the body of America.  And we all know it won't stop with smoking.

[absolootezer0]

Even if only 25-30% of your patrons smoke, and you lose 25-30% of your revenue with a smoking ban, that loss has GOT to hurt.

which is why i get afraid when i see so many chain restaurants coming in. we have a strip in west lansing that's chain heaven (at least 10 in less than a mile) and the mom and pop shops are starting to disappear. chains can handle the losses that family owned can't. if too many small restaurants go under, there will be no one left to fight, as chains don't tend to care- the loss of business will only be staggering for a few months, then it will trickle back, people will eventually go back to eating out.

[RandallFlagg]

Nuke them with their hypocracy. Like in Colorado, there's bar owners arguing, "If SHS is so deadly, why ban smoking in OUR businesses and NOT CASINOS? HMMMM?"

They're suing. I hope they win.

[SheLion]

chains can handle the losses that family owned can't. if too many small restaurants go under, there will be no one left to fight, as chains don't tend to care- the loss of business will only be staggering for a few months, then it will trickle back, people will eventually go back to eating out.

It's like our JC Penny's up here.  Hardly ever a customer.  Unless it's Christmas season.  The business from JC Penny across the United States help to keep open the ones like we have up here.

Trickle back?  People will eventually go back to eating out? heh!  Not ME and not a lot of my friends and family.

Can't smoke, then I will just save my money, thank you.  :)

[CSM]

I tend to bring up the ban tobacco sales to the socialists. When they really start squirming about the loss of revenue, I hit them with the it ain't so dangerous then argument.

It's worked so far, but we shall see....

[RandallFlagg]

I used to get my cigarettes (Before I went RYO) from Senecasmokes.com.
Last night, I was looking through my old favorites on this 'puter and clicked on their link. Here's what I saw:


March 5, 2006


We apologize for any inconvenience but we are no longer able to obtain cigarettes from our suppliers. As a result we are forced to close our store.

You will no longer be able to order via the web, mail or phone.

Effective immediately we have shut down our call center operations. If you have questions about your existing order which was already being processed you may contact us via email at : senecasmokessupport@starband.net

We appreciate your many years of support and have enjoyed providing you with the best tobacco at unbeatable prices.

If you have recently mailed in an order you will not need to cancel your check. We will simply mail it back to you.

Once again, THANK YOU!

Almost broke my heart.