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Decadent world is in the grip of Satan, says Pope
The Daily Telegraph ^ | April 15, 2006 | Malcolm Moore

Posted on 04/15/2006 1:03:31 AM PDT by MadIvan

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To: CheyennePress

Yeah, I know. People ge all torqued up when it comes to their religion. I was just being sarcastic, though.


81 posted on 04/15/2006 8:30:37 AM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: MadIvan
From this Protestant Christian: Long live Pope Benedict!
82 posted on 04/15/2006 8:32:58 AM PDT by bella1
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To: Mrs. Don-o
"I wonder why almost all the "Catholic" countries have descended so far into socialism?"

Christianity and socialism are alike in thinking that the objective of economic activity is to make possible the development of society as a whole. Christianity objects to a highly unequal distribution of wealth and benefits and a lack of social equality without necessarily proposing a program to achieve more social equality. Socialism goes beyond that to espouse collective ownership as a means of creating social equality.

Capitalism, on the other hand, views the most efficient creation of wealth and capital as the objective of economic activity. It is far less concerned with distribution of wealth and social equality.

83 posted on 04/15/2006 9:05:54 AM PDT by Lessismore
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To: freedumb2003
Yes -- Communism is the answer!

If you knew anything about Catholic teaching, communism was condemned quite early by the Church.

84 posted on 04/15/2006 9:24:21 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sancte Joseph, terror daemonum, ora pro nobis!)
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To: Lessismore; Mrs. Don-o
Christianity objects to a highly unequal distribution of wealth and benefits and a lack of social equality without necessarily proposing a program to achieve more social equality.

Yes, I think when Pope Benedict is objecting to excessive wealth he's talking about pre-Revolutionary France type excessive wealth, or Mexico of the current day, for that matter. I think we all remember the classic image of the plump aristocrat surrounded by the (literally) starving masses.

Today in the Information Age and in the first world we naturally begin a debate about degrees of fairness, when I think the original objection was to absolute, crippling poverty in most while a few gorged.

Furthermore, in times past, wealth was very hereditary, which made it more of a moral issue, such as "is it right for you to keep all that to yourself?". Whereas today it is more of an issue of what the superior economic policy is.
85 posted on 04/15/2006 9:24:32 AM PDT by starbase (Understanding Written Propaganda (click "starbase" to learn 22 manipulating tricks!!))
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To: Tim Long

We can do without Chick's anti-Catholic bilge, thanks.


86 posted on 04/15/2006 9:29:08 AM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
When it comes to the distribution of wealth, the Catholic church leans left.

Don't you believe he was thinking of Robert Mugabe when he said what he did? Me neither.

87 posted on 04/15/2006 9:36:42 AM PDT by Moonman62 (Federal creed: If it moves tax it. If it keeps moving regulate it. If it stops moving subsidize it)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
"Accumulating wealth was 'robbery' when it 'prevented others from living'. He deplored 'the division of our world into belts of prosperity and belts of poverty'."

There are a lot of Freepers out there who should react with quite a bit of hostility to this statement.

It's important to see that Christ's messages always start and end with the individual. There can be no credit given in heaven for charities done in your name by a government, but for which you haven't personally made any effort other than being taxed.

Charitable people make a charitable nation; confiscatory taxation does not. The point is for individuals to live lives of appropriate moderation, sharing excess profits through their own charitable instincts with churches and foundations.

88 posted on 04/15/2006 9:53:18 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (Got freedom? Thank a veteran.)
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To: Pyro7480
If you knew anything about Catholic teaching, communism was condemned quite early by the Church.

You have another intrpretation of the Pope's words?

89 posted on 04/15/2006 10:14:52 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Don't call them "Illegal Aliens." Call them what they are: CRIMINAL INVADERS!)
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To: Albion Wilde
The point is for individuals to live lives of appropriate moderation, sharing excess profits through their own charitable instincts with churches and foundations.

That is NOT what he said. When he taked about different parts of the world, he cast it into governmental (and thus political) terms.

90 posted on 04/15/2006 10:16:56 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Don't call them "Illegal Aliens." Call them what they are: CRIMINAL INVADERS!)
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To: Aussiebabe
"I wonder why almost all the "Catholic" countries have descended so far into socialism? Whether it is France, Spain, Italy or most of the South American countries such as Brazil, Venezuela, Mexico, etc , they are just descending into a morass of socialism and under their systems the mass populations suffer, not benefit from this "Christian" charity."

Have you ever heard of "Base Communities?" Some years ago, the more radical/socialist side of the Church decided it would be a good thing to take their liberation theology into the villages of Central and South America, as a means of collectivizing them and seeding a revolution against the real meaning of the Gospel.

I attended a music conference in Portland, Oregon, at which this particular brand of "Christianity" was touted to a large and mostly-eager audience of leftist do-gooders and busybodies. I imagine that the concept has had some effect on the Catholics of the region to a point where injecting the Socialist dogma into the process would be a very simple thing. If this isn't the reason, it's at least a very good method of introducing their propaganda to the ignorant.

91 posted on 04/15/2006 10:21:06 AM PDT by redhead (Don't mess with me...I'm pre-El Nino -- Mother Nature)
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To: MadIvan; GatorGirl; maryz; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; livius; goldenstategirl; ...

+


92 posted on 04/15/2006 10:21:48 AM PDT by narses (St Thomas says “lex injusta non obligat”)
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To: freedumb2003

That's not the problem. It's that you think there's only one interpretation.


93 posted on 04/15/2006 10:28:01 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sancte Joseph, terror daemonum, ora pro nobis!)
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To: Pyro7480

Parse it to mean something other than what it says, like others on this thread are atempting to do.

It means that rich countries are too rich and should give their "excess" to the poor countries.

If that ain't global Communism, I don't know what is. If you want to soften it, then I'll give you "global Socialism."


94 posted on 04/15/2006 10:30:15 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Don't call them "Illegal Aliens." Call them what they are: CRIMINAL INVADERS!)
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To: freedumb2003
It means that rich countries are too rich and should give their "excess" to the poor countries.

I don't see the Pope or the priest who wrote the reflections jumping to that conclusion, like you are. The Gospels are full of teachings where Jesus warns people about the danger wealth can create for a person's salvation. There are reasons, other than "greed," why there are these "belts." Corruption and opression are big ones.

95 posted on 04/15/2006 10:34:29 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sancte Joseph, terror daemonum, ora pro nobis!)
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To: Almondjoy

"Why shouldn't the church lean left? Greed may = capitalism may = propserity in the real world. But it's certainly clear that the only way to be a Christian with money is to give to charity."

Psssttt... don't tell anyone, but the United States gives more to charity and donates more time to community service than any other developped nation on earth.

As a for instance, Amercans give 6 times more per capita relative to income than than Brits. And it only becomes more striking when you compare American giving to continental Europe or time spent on volunteer activities.

Suffice it to say that I don't consider socialism charitable, either. In socialism, oney that is given is not given as a sacrifice by the giver. It is mandatory, it is done with expectations of reward in other arenas in life, and it is rarely accompanied by other charitable giving or donations. There is no spirit in it.



































96 posted on 04/15/2006 10:35:02 AM PDT by CheyennePress
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To: MadIvan

The article is very negative. The Pope "lashed out" and his prayers were approved because of a "strongly conservative" view.


97 posted on 04/15/2006 10:35:18 AM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: Pyro7480
The Gospels are full of teachings where Jesus warns people about the danger wealth can create for a person's salvation.

I will say it again. That is NOT what he said. He put in a global context, which means he has to be talking about countries.

Do I need to invent the word "Pope-Bots" for those of you who are doing verbal origami to make what he said anything other than what it was?

98 posted on 04/15/2006 10:39:01 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Don't call them "Illegal Aliens." Call them what they are: CRIMINAL INVADERS!)
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To: rbg81

"Cloaked in religious allegory, his words may sound kooky to many, but the message is sound and on-target."


I think you're right. His language is typical of his generation but his message is sound, as you say.


99 posted on 04/15/2006 10:43:30 AM PDT by Sabatier
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
Accumulating wealth was "robbery" when it "prevented others from living". He deplored "the division of our world into belts of prosperity and belts of poverty".

In the case of Mobutu Sese Seko (the ostensibly pro-American communistic ex-dictator of Zaire, now the Democratic Republic of the Congo), this statement is absolutely true. He extorted, stole, and bribed untold millions of dollars from his people and gave them nothing but death, enslavement, and misery in return. Although somewhat extreme, the plight of the Congo under Mobutu exemplifies the evil of dictators and communists everywhere. The Congo does have more than twenty million Catholics.

100 posted on 04/15/2006 10:47:44 AM PDT by dufekin (US Senate: the only place where the majority [44 D] comprises fewer than the minority [55 R])
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