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"No person in the U.S. is required to present identification on demand. The fourth amendment does not say anything about citizenship. Suffrage is a whole separate issue, and the leftists tend to lump them together. Once the right to be secure in your person, papers, and effects is waived; suffrage becomes moot. Retroactive laws that disenfranchise a larger group are desired by both parties."

You are correct. Howwever, that is the source of the problem. On one hand, we have the freedom not to "show our papers" on demand. On the other, that means that anyone in this country must be assumed to be here legally.

There's a definite conflict here, and that's at the heart of our immigration problems right now. If you cannot demand that someone prove his or her citizenship, then everyone becomes a citizen by default.

So, what to do? Either we have some sort of uniform national I.D. or we have no control whatever of those who may have entered the country illegally.

Which situation do you prefer?

Which situation do you prefer?

We already have a uniform national ID, and I have one. It is a United States Passport. Curiously, it does not contain my Social Security number, or a Service Identification number. Most states have similar (yet not identical) requirements to obtain a drivers license or a State issued photo identification. Having traveled internationally, I also have an international driving permit/license. Something that very few Americans realize is that the souvenir hospital "birth certificate" is NOT valid for a passport (or drivers license in most cases). It must be a Bureau of Vital Statistics certified copy. And it is not wise (or practical) to carry a birth certificate with you at all times. I believe that the requirements to have a valid passport to travel to Canada or Mexico in 2007-2008 will help document illegal migration and illegal immigration. I will never allow a National ID. Because they will tie it to the "Brady" laws and perform a national registration.

Documents can and will be forged, just like driver's licenses, social security cards, etc. In addition, many illegals work in the "underground" economy, where they are paid cash, no questions asked. Requiring every employer, bank, police officer, government office, etc., to carry some electronic verification device would be very expensive. As such, as with currency, police radar devices, etc., those devices can be bypassed, thereby rendering the equipment useless.

If decades of anti-narcotics laws and, in many big cities, anti-gun laws, have not had any effect on the supply of contraband, how will a National ID card system not be circumvented by organized crime? Like narcotics, forged IDs will be controlled by criminal elements and distributed through word of mouth among the illegals.

Either we have some sort of uniform national I.D. or we have no control whatever of those who may have entered the country illegally.

The second part does not follow from the first. Having a Uniform National ID would not make control easier; it would make evasion methods different.

"On one hand, we have the freedom not to "show our papers" on demand."

Oh really? Try telling that to a cop when he pulls over the car in which you are a passenger. Or tell it to the utility company when you go to have your power turned on. Tell it to the school when you go to enroll your child...unless, of course, you're an illegal, in which case, no such papers are required.

Oh sure, you can say that you're not required to provide "papers." Just do without the services. That isn't realistic. Your children are required by law to be in school...unless, of course, you're illegal, in which case they are not compelled by law, but somehow have an inalienable "right" to use our tax dollars to educate their children so they can ~~be competitive for American jobs~~ get "jobs that Americans won't do."