About being laid off and unwanted when you're 59

The Star (South Chicago) ^ | 4/23/6 | Michael Bowers

[SmithL]

One of my readers is an underemployed 59-year-old man from among us here in the South Suburbs. Call him Harry. He works in information technology. Slowly and wearily, he says: "Once you get past 50, I swear, it gets tough, it gets really tough."

For instance, Harry applied for a job with a city of Chicago department that operates 24 hours a day, seven days a week. He got an offer for some contract work. There were no benefits, but it was a paying job.

A woman from the city called him one Monday morning and wanted to know if he could start at midnight. Harry said he'd like to give his current employer a week's notice. That wasn't good enough. The job was gone. The caller told him: "This is a brave new world. Learn to live with it."

[hedgetrimmer]

And your point is?

[SamAdams76]

That's just my point. If you were a computer programmer in the early 1990s, you are most likely out of a job. But if you became a manager of computer programmers, you would be much more likely to bounce into another industry. You are not limited to be a "manager of computer programmers."

[RJS1950]

It's worse than that, most never have to take a basic logic course as a prereq to any other courses. I'm a military retiree who met the challenge of "you're military, you don't know anything", took a $28,000 income cut when I retired and took my first job. I proved to them that I was proficient in the latest technology and after a little over nine years they decided that the H1Bs and young guys were better suited than me and my recent masters in computer information systems. They laid off a large contingent of people in all of the business units and all were older employees, a lot of whom who had been there 20+ years and were the backbone of their areas. I beat them to the door and took a job with another $20,000 pay cut to administer an online program for a local university. I moved from that job to full time faculty teaching C++, web programming, database and other courses. The student's I have now, even in the graduate courses are woefully lacking in logic and hard tech skills because everyone is going to become a project manager. If I had to hit the job market again today at 55 it would be a crapshoot. I know what is out there and the idiots who do the hiring don't have it in their tiny little brains that an older employee might have a large variety of skills and that they might be up to date on the latest technology. They also don't have the concept that an older employee is usually very willing to take a pay cut to remain employed. It doesn't matter if you made financial arrangements 25 or 30 years ago, those were made using 30 year old figures and with the cost of everything including the basics like fuel food and heating going way up the amount you figured on 10 years ago won't take you much past 70 years of age. Most of my smarter friends who started saving and investing a lot earlier than I and thought they would retire at 55 now find that they will be lucky if they can retire at 65 without selling their home and possessions and retiring to a shack on the beach and that little plot on the beach will cost them more than their former house sold for. For those who are laid off in their 40s and 50s who have updated and have maintained multiprofessional skill sets finding a job anywhere int eh U.S. other than slinging hash (which I have done) is almost an impossibility. If they try to retire today on their retirement plans they will find that after 10 to 15 years they are out of funds and candidates for the democrat party concept of "just die and get out of the way".

[CindyDawg]

You sound like my husband:') Too late though. The check and the application is in the mail. Oh, well, at least I'll be a happily delusional. If I never try then I will never know. If I don't even try then it's for sure I'm not going to succeed , huh? I'm a very hard worker. I don't mind that. I want to be in charge of my life and to give back to my communicty by helping some very special people. I'm not worried. Thanks for the encouragement though. (chuckling)

[ImpBill]

Exactly. Thank you.

[Richard Kimball]

Try being 38 and returning to work after a prolonged mental illness

I have the same problem. I went into firefighting. It's one of the few professions where that's considered an asset.

[Nowhere Man]

In retrospect, yes. But our economy depends on the purchases of those who failed to plan their careers effectively.

If all this country can say to laid-off workers is "too bad you can't find a job, you should have planned better," I guarantee you there will be a revolt as disgruntled, out-of-work have-nots overthrow their corporate overlords.

It won't be pretty, and it won't be good when it happens - but if corporate America and the Establishment don't wake up to the fact that it is unsustainable to pay executives ridiculous golden parachutes while expecting the worker bees to work for peanuts, then an economic revolution is inevitable.

America's working class puts up with a lot, what with unemployment, low wages, out-of-control health care costs, and the like. Eventually, the workers of the world will unite. It won't be pretty when they do. Unless Corporate America wakes up and rediscovers the concept of nobless oblige, then some sort of Communism will be inevitable.

Market capitalism isn't free. Corporate responsibility is the price for keeping communism at bay. Call it enlightened self-interest. If corporations keep screwing 59-year-old retirees, eventually the workers will say "Enough."

I remember my father telling me, "the new American Dream is to hit the lottery." He's been telling me since 1973 that "if this crap keeps going on, American will cease to exist as we've known it." I think he might have been a generation off, I think he was expecting the crap to hit the fan by 1985 or 1995, but it is like the War on Terror, we've been at war with Islam since 1972 with the Munich Massacre but it took them a generation to hit and bring the WTC Towers down.

Digrtessing..... I can see it coming. The rhetoric of some of the "made it myself crowd" here will be falling on deaf ears, heck, it is right now. I know there are some who made bad decisions and have to live with them and such, heck, that is the price we pay for our hyper-consumerist, "Have it all now" society, but that is only part of the picture. There are people out there who cannot afford to save, maybe due to medical bills, living expenses, thrown out of work, or just plain bad luck (it happens, OK?). When I was in IT over 10 years ago, I had one weird shift a week, a graveyard shift, to backup the computer systems. Well, that is the most boring job in the world so sometimes I would put a reel of tape on, knowing that it would take 40 minutes, go down and talk to the security guard. Well, the Hillary Healthcare debate was big at the time and I was opposed to it and told the guard so (making conversation for the heck of it) and he said, "it wouldn't be bad for me, it would be a step up." I can't recall if he had no healthcare or bare bones coverage, but I cannot argue against that, maybe then I could, but not now as I am nearing 40 and seen more of what really goes on, aka, "wising up."

I do fear what you are saying could come true, this could preclude some sort of nationwide or worldwide collapse. I just watched Star Wars 3rd Episode and there are times I can draw a parallel between the first three episodes and what we are seeing now. You have the likes of Nute Gunray and Count Dooku supporting the uber capitalist Trade Federation, a sort of galatic version of the free traders and Chancellor Palpatine (aka Darth Sidious) supporting the Republic fighting against them. Palpatine is playing both side though, unknown to all except the very few, because he wants the war to increase his power. Basically, Palpatine wins with the help of Darth Vader (Anakin Skywalker) and imposes a dictatorship and an Empire on the Galaxy.

Fortunatly, on our case, our equivalent of Anakin Skywalker and Darth Sidious are yet unamed and unknown, but they are out there. I can see where the average Joe/Jane would have to make a decision, either fight, hide or support our "Darth Sidious" when he comes along.

[CIB-173RDABN]

Then me and my purple TV have a few more years to go together :-)

[Publius6961]

One was fired after telling her boss that she planned to retire in two years.

Not surprising; in today's world, knowing when to keep your mouth shut is a survival tactic...

[tortoise]

What kind of question is that? How rude!

Perhaps, but very pertinent to the topic at hand. Many people choose to have a boatload of kids when even a fool can see that it is a highly questionable move financially -- my parents being examples of such fools, as it happens. If you cannot afford the lifestyle, having kids because you want them is no different than buying a plasma TV because you want one. Except in the case of having kids, the parents' financial foolishness may be visited on them in various ways.

I have no problem with people having huge families, but it is a selfish financial choice based on personal desire just like every other such decision. We make our choices, and live with the consequences, and having children is unambiguously a voluntary personal choice. If one chooses to have children, one should not complain to anyone else that they are expensive to maintain -- anyone should have known that going in.

[CindyDawg]

If your parents had been "wiser" which one of your brothers or sisters would you have prefered they passed on? What if it was you?

[CIB-173RDABN]

You are correct, you do not need to tell your boss everything. I plan on giving my company just a few months noticed as to my retirement date (which I already know).

It will be long enough to replace me, and short enough it would not be a major bother if they told me to hit the road now.

[chas1776]

Getting laid off at 59 is better than I did. I got laid of at 58. I could see the handwriting on the wall when I was 48. My managers reviews were setting me up for the layoff. No raises for 10 years. They just advised me I could look anytime I wanted. Try finding a job when you making more than the market will bear.

I have been laid off 15 years and I don't mind that so much as the way I was treated the 10 years before I was laid off. My wife says I have an attitude.

[Nowhere Man]

There's a lot of that here. Some guy's getting old and on the one hand these folks tell him to "get a job" and on the other to "start a business."

We have some real ham handed conservatives here. The guy isn't a parasite, but they treat him like he is.

I know, I know a friend who posted his resume here and looking for help in finding a job, sure there were may here at FR who offered him help and ideas, which is as it should be, but there are those like some we see here who jumped on him "like a bunch of Messerschmidts on a B-17" and called him a "slacker" and a "parasite" because he wasn't in a position to move from where he was and so on. That was so mean to say the least and it deterred me from doing the ame thing. The left has it's own problem with extremists and the Moonbat crowd, but is seems we have our own version of the same problem.

[hedgetrimmer]

If you were a computer programmer in the early 1990s, you are most likely out of a job

What changed that made this a given?

[Young Scholar]

But our economy depends on the purchases of those who failed to plan their careers effectively.

I'm not convinced that unnecessary consumerism is really good for the economy.

If an economy's success is judged purely on output (GDP), Keynesian theory predicts that maximum consumption will maximize output. But the alternative to spending is investment, and in the long run higher levels of investment should allow for even more production.

[ImpBill]

You sure take a lot on yourself to assume that I, nor any one I love have not made it through a major tragedy. But your cross is much to much for you to bare much less anyone else's.

None of this was directed at you. Life is full of fortunate and unfortunate events. They affect us all. Some events we have some cause and effect in; some we don't. But that has nothing to do with accepting things the way they are, especially when we have no control over them. Again, not being prepared for a "lay off" at age 59 is something this gentleman had not prepared for. And my point is that he should have, prepared for that possibility and if one keeps abreast of the business climate, more a probability. You miss my whole point in your self-centered pity.

There are things we can change and prepare for and there are things we can not.

Not planning for a lay off, especially late in life, is not something a reasonable person couldn't see coming, especially in this business climate for the last 30 years. And that is nothing to do with unexpected medical problems, explicitly.

I really feel bad for you, but there isn't a darned thing I can do. You lost the whole point of the thread.

You attack me because I have accepted responsibility for "ourselves" (wife of 38 years) and worked towards being as financial sufficient as we could and then you claim to know that we have never been through a "major tragedy". You don't have a clue mam or sir, what ever the case may be. And no I am not going to share the challenges my wife and I have faced on a public board with you.

I don't have the credentials to help you in your grief, and far be it for me to suggest that you need some help, however ...

God Bless and yes you may have the last word.

[twidle]

"In fact, most of my friends of the same age have been laid off. One was fired after telling.... "

You can thank Government and Greedy companies for refusing to hire people past 50 years of age, lower births, Mexican hordes, outsourcing full time to avoid benefits politicans like Cheny earns $9,000,000 (gives $7 million to medical charity), Clinton 10's of million dollars at Yucaipa, Pres. of Mexico sending his charity cases and smugglers to US for our economic inequality. Companies not paying their fair share medical ins. retirement, cheating on income tax, Fraud DeLay and Abramohof (illegal pay offs for favors). Cheaters proof show up economically.

[pollyannaish]

Completely agree. And not just in IT.

"Job Security" is a myth...and always has been.

[Nowhere Man]

Your situation is very painful I'm sure. I dearly hope things improve soon and you get a good job. I've been through the wringer myself but you've been through it a lot worse than I. I'll say a prayer for you and yours.

It just burns me about the "holier than thou" attitude some exhibit. I seem to remember Jesus said, "he without sin, cast the first stone" although the other side of the equation is "go and sin no more." Still, I have seen my fair share of stonecasting here from time to time.