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Why does Ethanol additives cause gas prices to rise?

Posted on 04/27/2006 11:21:18 AM PDT by John Geyer

Edited on 04/27/2006 11:47:26 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

I would assume that ethanol, being produced by fermenting American grown corn into a useable fuel, would make gas cheaper, not more expensive. Instead of making the price of gas rise, I would believe that it would fall because we are using a renewable, home grown form of fuel. I guess I'm an idiot for not understanding the reasons behind this, but I ask for someone with more experience to explain it for me. I was telling my father how ethanol would make gas cheaper, and now I feel like a complete moron. Help me understand.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: energy; ethanol; gasprices; metalkpretty1day
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1 posted on 04/27/2006 11:21:20 AM PDT by John Geyer
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To: Admin Moderator

How=Help


2 posted on 04/27/2006 11:21:50 AM PDT by John Geyer
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To: John Geyer
Why does Ethanol additives cause gas prices to rise? ^

They does?

3 posted on 04/27/2006 11:23:54 AM PDT by Maceman (Fake but accurate, and now double-sourced)
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To: John Geyer
The answer is complicated, but the short version is that it takes more energy to produce Ethanol then Ethanol itself gives back in the form of fuel.
4 posted on 04/27/2006 11:24:20 AM PDT by Pukin Dog (Psst. Hey, do you know anything about roofing? You're illegal? Damn! Now, did I ASK YOU?)
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To: Pukin Dog

Oh, so it's a lot like hydrogen powered cars and such.


5 posted on 04/27/2006 11:25:06 AM PDT by John Geyer
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To: John Geyer
The Gasoline companies charge high prices

Because they can.

6 posted on 04/27/2006 11:26:17 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know.)
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To: John Geyer

There are several reasons that costs are higher with ethanol-added reformulated gas.

The market for the ethanol-added gasoline is not large - primarily the Midwest - and only a handful of refineries in the region are even producing ethanol.

Ethanol cannot be transported via petroleum pipelines because it tends to soak up water. It is typically transported by tanker truck, which limits the regions where it will be used.

Ethanol evaporates more quickly than other additives, so it must be mixed with low-volatility gasolines to meet government standards. These low-volatility gasolines are more expensive to make.


7 posted on 04/27/2006 11:26:27 AM PDT by nhoward14 (I am an engineer. If it ain't broke, it ain't got enough features yet.)
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To: John Geyer

Then why is ethanol gas in Iowa 20 cents cheaper than the "real" stuff in Illinois?


8 posted on 04/27/2006 11:27:27 AM PDT by sarasota
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To: nhoward14

see #8.


9 posted on 04/27/2006 11:28:07 AM PDT by sarasota
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To: nhoward14

I love your tag!

TT


10 posted on 04/27/2006 11:28:16 AM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: sarasota

transportation costs + taxes


11 posted on 04/27/2006 11:28:40 AM PDT by nhoward14 (I am an engineer. If it ain't broke, it ain't got enough features yet.)
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To: John Geyer

Because we allow it to.


12 posted on 04/27/2006 11:29:01 AM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: John Geyer

The problem is the DEMAND for Ethanol. Big Oil is bidding the price up (and if I were REALLY cynical, I'd think this is a consipiracy to price Ethanol out of the market and to force the hands of those states who have outlawed MTBE, which is a known carcinagen).

The assumptions you've made would be correct under ordinary circumstances. Unfortunately these are not ordinary times.

Similar things will occur when domestic hydrogen automobiles are introduced.

Big Oil companies had a 19% increase in profits last quarter, they intend to keep it that way. The easiest way is to force Ethanol out of the competition and to create ill will against Ethanol at the same time.


13 posted on 04/27/2006 11:29:11 AM PDT by Iowa Granny (One size fits all panty hose generally DON'T)
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To: Pukin Dog

This is no longer true. You get more out of ethanol than you put in, but the balance is not overwhelmingly positive. It is not equal to the balance you get from drilling oil, for example.

The real reason prices rise with the addition of ethanol is that ethanol is more expensive to make than gas (though the energy balance is positive), and it is much more difficult to transport and store. Until ADM and others can ramp up ethanol production to meet demand and the oil companies get off their lazy bums and develop a distribution system for ethanol, you'll see shortages from production and distribution. Combine that with general market panic, and prices rise....


14 posted on 04/27/2006 11:29:45 AM PDT by eraser2005
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To: sarasota

I forgot another +

+ Illinois boutique gas formula requirements due to EPA Clean Air regulations.


15 posted on 04/27/2006 11:29:50 AM PDT by nhoward14 (I am an engineer. If it ain't broke, it ain't got enough features yet.)
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To: John Geyer

1. I think I heard the cost of the switch from MTBE to ethanol in the refineries has something to do with what you're seeing. But, since I'm in flyover country where MTBE has never been used, I haven't paid much attention to it.

2. It could be that the supply of ethanol cannot keep up with the sudden increase in demand. I do know many new ethanol plants are currently in various stages of planning/construction.


16 posted on 04/27/2006 11:29:52 AM PDT by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.)
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To: sarasota

Because it is subsidized by the federal government.


17 posted on 04/27/2006 11:29:56 AM PDT by TFMcGuire (Either you are an American, or you are a liberal)
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To: sarasota
Then why is ethanol gas in Iowa 20 cents cheaper than the "real" stuff in Illinois?

You really need to ask that?

It is the same reason that Strawberries are cheaper in California, and Oranges are cheaper in Florida. Come on!

18 posted on 04/27/2006 11:30:25 AM PDT by Pukin Dog (Psst. Hey, do you know anything about roofing? You're illegal? Damn! Now, did I ASK YOU?)
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To: Iowa Granny

Gas companies pay a royalty to ARCO for MTBE - that lawsuite cost us at the pump years back - now that MTBE is being taken out, we should have a reduction in gas because that fee is no longer paid for that additive.


19 posted on 04/27/2006 11:31:05 AM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: eraser2005
You get more out of ethanol than you put in

Not true. I know what studies you might be referencing, and they do not take into account some of the refining, shipping and multiple 'cocktail blending' costs.

20 posted on 04/27/2006 11:32:07 AM PDT by Pukin Dog (Psst. Hey, do you know anything about roofing? You're illegal? Damn! Now, did I ASK YOU?)
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