Posted on 04/28/2006 9:06:42 AM PDT by FreedomSurge
Those who crusade against illegal immigration - claiming that cheap labor depresses wages and hurts low-skilled American workers - like to talk about the economic impact.
Americans would have a better debate if we started accepting some undeniable economic realities.
Undeniable Reality No. 1: Guest worker programs often don't work as advertised. Workers are often exploited because employers tend to conclude that trying to ensure otherwise - through fair wages, housing, etc. - trims profits. Once that happens, employers lose interest in the program and look elsewhere for labor.
Undeniable Reality No. 2: Illegal immigrants don't depress wages; employers do. I'm sure immigrants would love to take home more pay every week, but they don't have the power to make that happen.
One complaint can get them fired.
Undeniable Reality No. 3: The idea that illegal immigrants will "self-deport" if you dry up all the jobs isn't realistic.
What do immigrants have to go home to? The self-deport argument is simply a cop-out for those who don't have the will to deport millions of illegal immigrants or give them amnesty.
Undeniable Reality No. 4: There will always be jobs for illegal immigrants because many Americans want to enjoy upper-class luxuries on middle- class salaries. Like the man who called in to a radio show I was on and volunteered that - as a single parent - he had hired an illegal immigrant to baby-sit his kids while he worked. The caller said he paid the nanny about $6 per hour, but that hiring a U.S. citizen might cost him twice as much. Multiply this guy by millions and you start to get the picture.
Undeniable Reality No. 5: We all benefit from illegal immigration. Even if you don't benefit directly - like that single parent - chances are you benefit indirectly by enjoying the fruits of a robust economy or lower prices on goods and services. From Phoenix to Denver to Charlotte to Las Vegas, U.S. cities with high concentrations of illegal immigrants are enjoying construction booms and thriving economies. At the other extreme, economically depressed states such as West Virginia have - according to surveys - very few illegal immigrants.
Undeniable Reality No. 6: Mexican workers are going to continue to come to the United States - legally if possible, illegally if necessary - as long as they can earn 15 to 20 times more in this country than they can back home. In many
villages in Mexico, workers might earn just $3 to $6 per day. In the United States, they might earn $60 per day for farm work or $90 per day for construction work. What would you be willing to do to make 20 times what you make now? Undeniable Reality No. 7: When you're talking about employers and workers, and the workers are here illegally, the laws of supply and demand fall apart. After a speech at a college in southern Indiana, an economics professor suggested that one way to force farmers in Mexico to pay higher wages was to encourage more immigration from that country. The logic seemed to be that if you further drain off the labor supply, you'd force employers in Mexico to raise their wages. By extension, the same sort of pressure could be applied to manipulate the behavior of U.S. farmers.
Not so fast. What the professor was talking about was white-collar economics. From her vantage point, if another college wanted to lure her away and offered to increase her salary by 20 percent, then the college she's at now would be forced to increase her pay by at least as much to keep her on staff. That's generally how it works in the white-collar world.
But the professor could use a quick tutorial in Farm Economics 101. Her theory involved low-skilled farm workers - people who perhaps can't read or write, who usually have limited skills, who can't defend themselves against unscrupulous employers and who are easily replaced, on either side of the border. These people are at the bottom of the economic food chain and they don't have any leverage. There's a wide chasm between such workers and their employers - socially, economically and culturally - and it makes it difficult for those workers to ever earn the respect they deserve.
If American farmers are squeezed with labor shortages, they'll simply do what they have done for decades - intensify their demands on Congress for more guest workers from other countries.
Which brings us back to Undeniable Reality No. 1.
No trabajó, amigo.
Scrap the whole article as far as I am concerned, all fertilizer logic by the open border whackos.
Okay - if we declare them all citizens (the way you're proposing) the first thing these people will do is demand pay raises - which will cause price spikes all across the spectrum and further depress our economy...
Undeniable reality number 5 and a half: If the author is too stupid to figure out effect and cause vs cause and effect, then I don't bother with the rest of his ideas. The illegals are in the growing cities because there is a lot of building there, not vice versa. West Virginia is not in a slump because of lack of illegals - there is a lack of illegals because WV is in a slump.
Our President just said he did NOT approve of the latinos changing our national anthem, he said it must ALWAYS BE SUNG IN ENGLISH!
GOOD!
Undeniable reality number 8: overload the lifeboat and it begins to sink, e.g. California is fast going broke.
The FReeple have been heard. Power to the FReeple!!!!
P.S. By "California" I meant Alta California. Baja California is already broke.
Got this in my email this morning from a buddy. Thought all Freepers might find it useful. For anyone who is lame enough to think we put immigrants through too many hoops, read about this poor sod.
The following from a director with SW BELL in Mexico City.
I spent five years working in Mexico.
I worked under a tourist visa for three months and could legally renew it
for three more months. After that you were working illegally. I was
technically illegal for three weeks waiting on the FM3 approval.
During that six months our Mexican and US Attorneys were working to secure
a permanent work visa called a FM3. It was in addition to my US passport that
I had to show each time I entered and left the country. Barbara's was the
same except hers did not permit her to work.
To apply for the FM3 I needed to submit the following notarized originals
(not copies) of my:
1. Birth certificates for Barbara and me.
2. Marriage certificate.
3. High school transcripts and proof of graduation.
4. College transcripts for every college I attended and proof of
graduation.
5. Two letters of recommendation from supervisors I had worked for at
least one year.
6. A letter from The ST. Louis Chief of Police indicating I had no
arrest record in the US and no outstanding warrants and was "a citizen in good
standing."
7. Finally; I had to write a letter about myself that clearly stated why
there was no Mexican citizen with my skills and why my skills were
important to Mexico. We called it our "I am the greatest person on earth" letter. It
was fun to write.
All of the above were in English that had to be translated into Spanish and
be certified as legal translations and our signatures notarized. It
produced a folder about 1.5 inches thick with English on the left side and Spanish
on the right.
Once they were completed Barbara and I spent about five hours accompanied
by a Mexican attorney touring Mexican government office locations and being
photographed and fingerprinted at least three times. At each location (and
we remember at least four locations) we were instructed on Mexican tax,
labor, housing, and criminal law and that we were required to obey their
laws or face the consequences. We could not protest any of the government's
actions or we would be committing a felony. We paid out four thousand
dollars in fees and bribes to complete the process. When this was done we
could legally bring in our household goods that were held by US customs in
Loredo Texas. This meant we rented furniture in Mexico while awaiting our
goods. There were extensive fees involved here that the company paid.
We could not buy a home and were required to rent at very high rates and
under contract and compliance with Mexican law.
We were required to get a Mexican drivers license. This was an amazing
process. The company arranged for the licensing agency to come to our
headquarters location with their photography and finger print equipment and
the laminating machine. We showed our US license, were photographed and
fingerprinted again and issued the license instantly after paying out a six
dollar fee. We did not take a written or driving test and never received
instructions on the rules of the road. Our only instruction was never give
a policeman your license if stopped and asked We were instructed to hold it
against the inside window away from his grasp. If he got his hands on it
you would have to pay ransom to get it back.
We then had to pay and file Mexican income tax annually using the number of
our FM3 as our ID number. The companies Mexican accountants did this for us
and we just signed what they prepared. I was about twenty legal size pages
annually.
The FM 3 was good for three years and renewable for two more after paying
more fees.
Leaving the country meant turning in the FM# and certifying we were leaving
no debts behind and no outstanding legal affairs (warrants, tickets or
liens) before our household goods were released to customs.
It was a real adventure and If any of our senators or congressmen went
through it once they would have a different attitude toward Mexico.
The Mexican Government uses its vast military and police forces to keep its
citizens intimidated and compliant. They never protest at their White House
or government offices but do protest daily in front of the United States
Embassy. The US embassy looks like a strongly reinforced fortress and
during most protests the Mexican Military surround the block with their men
standing shoulder to shoulder in full riot gear to protect the Embassy.
These protests are never shown on US or Mexican TV. There is a large public
park across the street where they do their protesting. Anything can cause a
protest such as proposed law changes in California or Texas.
Please feel free to share this with everyone who thinks we are being hard
on illegal immigrants.
How come the Mexican government seems to have been able to avoid the "undeniable realities" of immirgration?? Likewise, every freaking country on the globe. What is it with "journos" that they can never analyze a situation objectively with all options considered? Consider this, we fine the crap out of any US business that employs illegals, we connect the dots between the Social Security Administration and the Internal Revenue System and check on fraudulent SSNs, we deport all illegals immediately upon contact, and finally, we protect our border from those wishing to cross it illegally. Then, and only then, if we decide that we have jobs that Americans don't want, we will decide if we wish to outsource the problem or insource the problem. At no time in my universe do the illegals decide the correct course for American immigration. Hey, how about requiring all immigrants to speak english, demonstrate financial independence and a clean arrest record before they are allowed to immigrate. Finally, why don't we strategically think about the types/skills we may want to add to our population. We really don't need manual labor.
When ILLEGAL is no longer viewed as a crime, our nation will perish.
Uh, their own country?
He also doesn't understand basic economics:
Illegal immigrants don't depress wages; employers do. I'm sure immigrants would love to take home more pay every week, but they don't have the power to make that happen.
It's called supply and demand. If there were fewer illegals, employers currently hiring illegals would have to pay more in wages to attract workers.
Pay no attention to Ruben Navarette Jr. He's a foot soldier for the La Raza movement masquerading as a moderate columnist.
The laws of supply and demand do not fall apart - they work exactly as predicted when a flood of illegal laborers enters the low end of the labor market. It depresses wages in that market.
This guy is going to great lengths to deny the obvious. If the labor Dems turn on the illegal movement, it's toast.
It's one of those guaranteed things in life that any column written by a liberal that has "undeniable" in the title is filled with denial.
Undeniable Reality #7: We will all die. All our laws that punish murder do nothing to stop this. Laws against rape, stealing, drugs, etc. are all, in the end, worthless. You will still die.
The idea that illegal immigrants will "self-deport" if you dry up all the jobs isn't realistic.
-------
Many will/would stay here until their noses are forced out of the government pig trough.
A minor but undeniable reality: wherever I have lived (Kansas, CA, TX) as soon as illegal Mexicans feel comfortable in their surroundings they begin `tagging' (defacing) all available buildings with their spray-paint graffiti.
And playing the SAME tejano track over and over.
But wouldn't it be fun to have one of those `Chebbys' that bounces up and down?
Of course I've also thought about getting really drunk and cutting my own hair, but that won't happen either.
I was walking through southeast San Diego years ago with my English bulldog bitch and a cholo asked me if I'd mind if he took her. I replie, if you can take her you can have her.
He walked away quickly, his right hand bleeding in his bandanna. She was as mean as a snake, for an E. bull.
Que lastima, pobre muchacho.
I was reading this thinking, "Does this guy think we should believe his claptrap just because he says so?" Then I checked out who the author was and realized, yes, that's exactly what he thinks.
susie
I heard that, and my ears pricked up. Is there hope yet?
susie
DING DING DING DING DING! We have a winner!
:)
susie
By looking the other way, we encourage the human trafficking and slave trade into the country, we encourage employers to pay these people squat and when they go home at night, they are preyed upon by criminals to bank on the fact that they won't report the crime for fear of deportation.
They can get that kind of "lifestyle" at any third world country. It shouldn't be happening here.
Illegal immigration should be discouraged and stopped on moral grounds as well as to protect American citizens and those that come here legally.
Read Captain's Quarters on how the unlimited illegal migration is destroying the social fabric of villages in Mexico. Very moving.
He's probably right about this one. I'm surprised the "self-deport" concept is such an article of faith on FR, because even the promise of occasional, illegal work is better than going home to less than nothing.
Thanks! I will.
CALI-FOREIGNER
The second thing they would do is use their vote to support democratic candidates that promise them "wealth redistribution." After all, what do they know about capitalism.
We can hope and pray,we are in the fight of our lives!
I looked at Captain's Quarter's here:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/
and did not find the story. Would you help me please?
Not if the benefits also dry up, AND we are looking for them to deport. There's no single step that will work, it has to be a program taht takes away the draw (jobs and benefits) and has a bit of a stick (deportation--and NOT catch and release), as well as a carrot (no green card EVER if they are caught in the US illegally after a certain date). I feel very confident that this would work. And....it would certainly work better than what we're doing now.
susie
Wrong bucko. As soon as most are able, they buy themselves a pickup truck and go into the "un-licenced" contracting business. They start competing unfairly with licensed landscape contractors, pool maintenance companies, general handy-man contractors, etc. This requires legitmate businesses to cut costs and salaries to compete. Soon, the only employees the legitimate contractors can get to work for them are illegals they have to pay off the books.
The woman who goes to worksites and sells tamales out of her trunk takes business away from the caterer who can't match her prices due to the costs of liscencing, etc.
Even Hugo Chavez, who organized the migrant farmworkers (many of whome were white), was against illegal immigration because of the effect illegals had on wages, and the fact that growers could always bring them in to break strikes.
Many illegals know that if their boss cheats them on wages, they need only drop a dime on them to the labor board. Not only will the illegal not get deported, the employer will be punished.
Undeniable Reality No. 3: The idea that illegal immigrants will "self-deport" if you dry up all the jobs isn't realistic. What do immigrants have to go home to? The self-deport argument is simply a cop-out for those who don't have the will to deport millions of illegal immigrants or give them amnesty.
They don't have to go home, they can go to Canada for all I care. But if they are here illegally, they should be denied work--period. Many of them will go home, where they will have start demanding change there, instead of here.
Undeniable Reality No. 4: There will always be jobs for illegal immigrants because many Americans want to enjoy upper-class luxuries on middle- class salaries. Like the man who called in to a radio show I was on and volunteered that - as a single parent - he had hired an illegal immigrant to baby-sit his kids while he worked. The caller said he paid the nanny about $6 per hour, but that hiring a U.S. citizen might cost him twice as much. Multiply this guy by millions and you start to get the picture.
Perhaps, without illegals depressing wages, he'd make enough money to hire a regular nanny. Perhaps he should get remarried to a stay at home mom. In any case, the 6$ nanny takes business away from licenced day care providers, thereby depressing their wages (i guess the author doesn't understand the meaning of contradicting statements).
Undeniable Reality No. 6: Mexican workers are going to continue to come to the United States - legally if possible, illegally if necessary - as long as they can earn 15 to 20 times more in this country than they can back home.
Not if we build a fence. Mexico is a rich country. The problem is that most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few. If we build a fence to keep them flooding our border, deny them jobs, and deport everyone we catch, then the pressure on the mexican government to reform itself, or face revolution, will change that. This is why the mexican govt pushes their excess population north.
This author (judging by his surname), has an obvious agenda and cherr-picked his information.
Thanks. Don't know where that came from. Some kind of liberal freudian slip.
Thanks. Don't know where that came from. Some kind of liberal freudian slip.
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