Why a jihad in Jammu-Kashmir?

Jihadwatch.org ^ | Hugh Fitzgerald

[Raj13008]

Jammu-Kashmir is part of India. It is not part of Pakistan. And the notion that any part of India in which there is to be found a Muslim-majority population is one where therefore Muslim claims have legitimacy is absurd.

Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald discusses the jihad in Jammu and Kashmir, and on the subcontinent in general:

Why do Muslim terrorists attack in Jammu-Kashmir? Because they can. The Muslim claim to Kashmir differs from their claim to all of India (or for that matter to Spain (Al-Andalus), to Israel, to Sicily, to the Balkans, to Bulgaria, to Rumania, to Hungary, and to all the areas once dominated by Muslims) only in the ability to push that claim. Of course, in the jihadist view the entire world in the end must submit to Islam and be dominated by Islam -- though non-Muslims may, should they accept what many Muslims continue to believe is perfectly just, live under those unambiguous conditions of humiliation, degradation, and physical insecurity whose sum is the status we now describe as "dhimmitude".

Any land area, even within the Western countries where Muslims come to dominate, will by many of them be regarded as "Muslim land." The claims made by various local Muslims may seem comical to us, such as that for the "Caliphate" in Cologne, or the insistence that certain areas in Malmo or Rotterdam or Muslim-populated towns in France are not to be treated as any longer under the control of representatives of the Infidel nation-state, but they are quite serious. That seriousness is being demonstrated even now both by Muslims and by the representatives (police, firemen, teachers) of that nation-state, who are often too afraid not to comply with the Muslim demands that they stay out of what is no longer their territory.

Jammu-Kashmir is part of India. It is not part of Pakistan. And the notion that any part of India in which there is to be found a Muslim-majority population is one where therefore Muslim claims have legitimacy is absurd. For what would follow, logically, would be a turning of all sorts of places within India into little Muslim-ruled areas. And given that the Muslim rate of population growth is always higher, in India and elsewhere, then the non-Muslim population, and given that Muslims have not hesitated to push out large numbers of non-Muslims (think of the 400,000 Kashmiri Pandits forced to flee when threatened with death), either one takes a firm stand and rejects Muslim demands or, by even hinting at "negotiating," one emboldens the mujahedin. The Israelis have done the latter, to their own sorrow. In failing to make their own case, they have also failed to help Infidels in Europe understand that the siege against Israel, that Lesser Jihad, is hardly the only, or even the most important, of the local Jihads now being waged. And it will continue to be waged, using all the instruments now available, unless met with well-informed, implacable, and relentless opposition.

India should not be "negotiating" over Jammu-Kashmir. There is no possibility of such a negotiation satisfying Muslims permanently. Since India now possesses this part of Kashmir (Pakistan also controls part), any negotiation will only lead to further Indian concessions, possibly even the surrender of land. What Pakistan would offer -- a grand agreement to cease support for cross-border terrorism -- is no concession at all. Pakistan cannot offer up as a concession what it has a moral and legal duty to do anyway.

And the same is true elsewhere in the world. One suspects that the outside world will be unsympathetic to the Indians unless and until they all begin, at the same time, to talk about the belief-system of Islam, and why concessions here and there make no sense, given the ultimate unappeasable demands that Muslims must, if they are to be true Muslims, continue to make on all Infidels.

Doesn't it make more sense for Infidels everywhere to recognize this and to discuss it openly? This would force Muslims to discuss their own ideology, and be embarrassed or chagrined by such discussion, so that not only will Infidels start supporting each other in their local conflicts, but so that some Muslims will have to cease the taqiyya-and-tu-quoque, and begin to admit that something in Islam, a good deal in Islam, must change if it is not to make Muslims permanently immiscible and un-integrable and regarded with permanent suspicion and hostility by Infidels everywhere.

Hindu civilization in Jammu-Kashmir should be defended. It is a pity that so many in India among those who are called, quite loosely and often quite comically, "intellectuals" -- all shy away from anything that might conceivably be taken as a defense of Hindu (or Sikh) civilization, or culture. Above all, no thoroughly modern Indian will dare suggest that Islam has done great damage to Jammu and Kasmir, as well as to India as a whole, and to Indian civilization. No, there are exceptions -- such as that cosmopolitan of Indian descent, V. S. Naipaul, who is not afraid of anyone. There are Indian-Americans (Hindu, Sikh, and even disaffected ex-Muslims) and their counterparts in Great Britain, who also know how silly it is not to make the case, to ignore history, or to shy away from the slightest hint of Hindutva, which is often mocked. Why, exactly? Is K. S. Lal to be mocked for "The Legacy of Muslim Rule in India"? Is Sir Jahundath Sarkar? Are all the other Hindu historians of India who have been unafraid to discuss what Muslim rule did to India?

Those of us who are not Indian should find out a good deal more about what happened on the subcontinent, and cease to so readily accept the "advanced" view which holds that anything smacking of "communalism" (a word used to indicate, of course, those who wish to show their sympathetic interest in, and identification with, Hindu India, and who refuse to play the game of sanitizing the history of Muslim rule) is ipso facto evil.

One hopes that those in the Western world who are articulate and aware, and of Indian (Hindu or Sikh descent, primarily) will help to educate others -- but that can only be done once one has educated oneself. Lal and Sarkar should be household words. The two volumes in which Sita Ram Goel simply lists tens of thousands of Hindu sites destroyed should be better known. Those Indians who become internationally famous, and always -- as a matter of course -- are quick to demonstrate that they have absolutely nothing to do with "communalism" (i.e., Hindu causes, Hindu history, Hindu interests) -- one thinks here of Amartya Sen -- would do better to study their own history, and not to assume that intelligent Hindus and Sikhs who show a bit of that supposedly terrible "communalism" must be wrong. They aren't.

But it is difficult for them to make their voices heard, given the received ideas, and cliches, of the day -- both those concerning Jammu-Kashmir, and those concerning the Jihad in general.

[Lurker]

I'm going to hazard a guess. Now I may be entirely off base here, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm going to go waaaaaay out on a limb here and say that there is a Jihad in, oh wherever the Hell this is, because maybe, just maybe

THERE ARE MUSLIMS THERE!

I know some folks will think that's a preposterous assertion, but I'm going to stick with it. That's my Final Answer Regis.

Now, what do I win?

L

[TBP]

Kashmir was promised a referendum on its status way back in 1948. That referendum has never been held, so to state categorically that it is "part of India" as if this has been decided is not accurate.

Furthermore, there is a sui generis independence movement there that must be considered part of the equation. Teh choices are not just India or Pakistan, but India, Pakistan, or independence.

The independence movement has been forcibly suppressed by over 700,000 troops. More than 90,000 Kashmiri Muslims have been killed at the hands of the government and its agents in the last 18 years. Tens of thousands are political prisoners.

Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CAl.) has said, "For the people of Jammu and Punjab and Kashmir, India might as well not be a democracy. For the people in those regions, India might as well be Nazi Germany."

This is nowhere near as clear-cut as this partisan riter makes it out to be.

[TBP]

Hugh Fitzgerald clearly does not know very much about what is going on in Kashmir.

[Raj13008]

And I am sure Mr.Tim Phares , aka TBP , the lowly paid Pakistani lobbyist knows better.

[Raj13008]

"Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CAl.)"

So how much did the Pakistan lobby pay her ? By the way , a more famous Congresswoman , Rep. Cynthia McKinney , who was in the news recently....has much more scathing stuff to say about Indians being nazis and killing those poor Kashmiri muslims etc.

[raj bhatia]

"Kashmir was promised a referendum on its status way back in 1948. That referendum has never been held, so to state categorically that it is "part of India" as if this has been decided is not accurate. "

The U.N. security council resolutions are unbinding and Kofi Annan said so in no uncertain terms a couple of years back. The legal basis rests on the instrument of accession signed by the ruler of Kashmir in India's favour--the basis for partition. So India is on solid legal ground.


"Furthermore, there is a sui generis independence movement there that must be considered part of the equation. Teh choices are not just India or Pakistan, but India, Pakistan, or independence.

The independence movement has been forcibly suppressed by over 700,000 troops. More than 90,000 Kashmiri Muslims have been killed at the hands of the government and its agents in the last 18 years. Tens of thousands are political prisoners. "

The "independence movement" is lead by hard core jihadist terror groups, every one of which has been declared a terrorist outfit in the U.S. by acts of Congress and all of the civilized world. Any attempt to abet them in the U.S. is a plain felony. Most of the death toll is caused by systematic bomb attacks by Jihadi thugs,as the terror group certification amply proves. The Indian troops in Kashmir are doing God's work---stopping illiterate starving jehadi pakistani infiltrators looking to blow up Hindus as a short cut to the promised virgins.

No dear, Jehadi talking points won't work on FR.

[singfreedom]

We have a Pakistani Muslim friend who used to tell us that Kashmir should be part of Pakistan because India "treated the Muslims there so badly". One day I got fed up and told him that if they quit acting like such f'n jackasses, perhaps India would treat them better. Amazingly, he just grinned and agreed they probably would.

This is NOT to say that the Islamofacists would take this exchange that well, at all! Our friend is better educated (here) and FAR more intelligent than most Pakis. He also understands that Americans, usually, have a more truthful stance on terrorists (for which he has no use either) than the Islamic media.

[piytar]

Over on LGF (little green footballs), we refer to what you did here as a "fisking" -- and a damn fine one at that.

What is a fisking you may ask? Go here and search for it: http://www.zombietime.com/lgf_dictionary/

Short verions: "A point-by-point debunking of the kind of lies and/or idiocies written by those of the Robert Fisk persuasion."

[ncountylee]

This is nowhere near as clear-cut as this partisan riter makes it out to be.

If the filthy moose were in charge, the death toll would be much greater. IMHO

[Raj13008]

Good to see another Raj here. :-)

[ncountylee]

Monday, May 01, 2006 09:12:46 am | IANS
JAMMU: At least 20 Hindus are feared been killed by terrorists in Kulhan area of Bharat in Doda district, about 200 km north-east of Jammu late Sunday night, according to reports reaching here. Women and children were among the victims, initial unconfirmed reports said.

[Tzimisce]

Why are Muslims attacking in Kashmir?

Because they're Muslims. Blood thirsty, insane, war mongering Muslims.

We have a serious problem.

[Daaave]

Barbara Olson

September 13, 2001

THIS IS WAR

"Barbara Olson kept her cool. In the hysteria and terror of hijackers herding passengers to the rear of the plane, she retrieved her cell phone and called her husband, Ted, the Solicitor General of the United States. She informed him that he had better call the FBI — the plane had been hijacked. According to reports, Barbara was still on the phone with Ted when her plane plunged in a fiery explosion directly into the Pentagon."

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."

nationalreview.com/

[CarrotAndStick]

The referendum for Kashmir is null and void, considering the massive influx of Pakistani Punjabi Muslims into the parts of Kashmir under Pakistani occupation, including the Northern Areas, North-West Frontier Province, Gilgit, and the rest, despite violent opposition from the ethnic natives of these areas.

On the Indian side, Pakistan-based Jehadis have killed or made to flee most of the Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist population of Kashmir.

Under these circumstances, a plebiscite cannot be used as a solution to the Kashmir dispute. Even the UN and the US, and in fact most non-Islamic, secular governments of the world acknowledges that.

[Daaave]

1996

"A shadowy terrorist outfit calling itself Al Faran abducted six Western tourists last year. One of them, an American, escaped while another, a Norwegian, was brutally executed last year (13 August 1995 - Hans Ostro's decapitated body found.)."

"Nothing is known of the fate of the remaining four, although it is more than a year since they were abducted."

subcontinent.com/

[RobbyS]

It is interesting to note that NRO dissassociated themselves from Coulter and now seems to be disassociating itself from war in Iraq,

[CarrotAndStick]

Terrorists kill 20 Hindus in Kashmir

[singfreedom]

Quite the opposite, I should think, he seems to have a pretty decent handle on the thing. Don't get me wrong, we like Paki's. Hubby spent four years (and one military coup) over there with the Army (Embassy duty). We have quite a few Pakistani friends, and, the smart ones, to a man, understand that the Kashmiri Hindus are being treated terribly by the Jihadis that run rampant in the area.

I find it remarkable, and I've said this before, that Muslim fundamentalists can be found in every troubled spot on the planet. I wonder if this is a coincidence? (tongue firmly in cheek)

[singfreedom]

Thanks for posting that picture of Barbara Olsen. I just loved to hear her speak. So bright, so nice, so informed on the issues. We really miss her and I know Ted does too.